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New dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time

First post First post
Author
Ira Infernus
Knights-of-Cydonia
#781 - 2012-03-06 23:40:58 UTC
Firstly I dont understand why people are claiming THIS will kill the ******* game, you guys are insane, its not like they are adding a mechanic by which you can gain experience points and trade that for SP, which would totally throw the appeal of this game on its head to alot of people.
Its not like they are making it so everyone has to retrain completely? - They are just streamlining some skill paths to make far more sense, it will also aid the addition of additional ships in the future (like the so sought after T3 frigates and Battleships, and the missing pirate factions (amarr/gallente (EoM?); caldari/minmatar (Mordu's Legion?))...

I digress...

My biggest issue with this, which I would really, really like answering, along with a lot of other players I am sure, is the following;
-What if you havent already skilled for battlecruisers or destroyers????







- I havent skilled for destroyers for example, does this mean I wont be able to fly cruisers, BC's, and battleships untill I skill for this useless ship class (to me)?




I consider myself a cruiser pilot (T3, T2, faction) and use Battleships for PvE; am I to lose time out of my PvP and PvE activities?!
neur0zen
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#782 - 2012-03-06 23:45:12 UTC
Haleuth wrote:
This looks to me like the start of "lets balance all the classes and dumb the game down"

Strange that the only time i ever need to read these forums is when other people tell me ingame that soundwave wants to make stupid changes.

You should get a grip tbh.

You promised/insinuated a gradual progression in ships and equipment from t1-t2-t3 and beyond, you deliver t3 cruisers and thats it.

You talk about balancing broken ships by increasing training time instead of tweaking the broken ships.

You promised/insinuated that we'd be fighting in space ships within a planets atmosphere, you deliver an FPS.

You promised/insinuated mining revamps to "bring back the gold rush" and deliver nothing.

You set up faction war round tables and dont turn up.

Instead of cunjuring up more crazy ideas how about doing some of the stuff you as a company have been saying your going to do for nearly a decade?

How about dealing with the remote repair agro mechanic thats been pissing folk off for nearly a decade?

Nah dont bother, get yourself back to the pub and magic your next stupid idea out of your arse.



Man you should go to csm just for that post
Frothgar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#783 - 2012-03-06 23:46:13 UTC
Really impressed by CCP's decision to take on the Tier system. I'm excited to see some of the future changes to the current ships, and I'm looking forward to flying some much unloved hulls with far more frequency (LOL PHROPHECY)
Elena Grimaldi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#784 - 2012-03-06 23:46:55 UTC
way to go

Most people will be upset by this, but they always are pissed by any change so

for reimbursement: just give em the Sp for re-train a single racial BC to V, basically they skilled to V for 1 BC skilling BC to V, so, they will chooce wich BC e-skill to V or split up Sp to fly with less efficency all the BC.
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#785 - 2012-03-06 23:47:06 UTC
the only thing i'm worried about is the battlecruiser and destroyer skills.
i mean keep them the same, they are middle of the line i fly amarr and caldari BC, but with these changes i would need to train caldari ( or amarr) BC back up to 5??? the only way to do that right is to reimburse skillpoints from it, and then make racial battlecruiser a say, x2 skill, BC is a x5 skill atm i believe, though some would lose ships ready to fly, everyone would be able to get BC4 and a few to 5.


glad tiers are getting killed.
Zaxix
State War Academy
Caldari State
#786 - 2012-03-06 23:48:04 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
  • BS skill at IV for capitals: alright, there is good feedback on that. Point is to make the progression consistent by requiring a skill at 4 to train for the next, higher size class, and 5 for tech 2 ships. If we feel it becomes suddenly too easy to train for capitals, we can always compensate by adding that time back on one of the other, support skill prerequisites for them. Same reasoning applies for freighters. The point of this blog is to specifically discuss such matters before moving forward with them, and for this, you are welcome.
  • Can you please confirm whether or not the Jump Freighter skill will be broken out into racial variants? How will things be reassigned/handled? Will the "if you could do it before, you can do it later" mantra be applied? (I'm guessing yes, but I'm confused as to how it will be done. Right now I can fly an Amarr JF but all i need is Amarr Freighter 1 to do it along with the JF skill.

    The training times for these is heinous, so we'd like to get as much lead time as possible to know how to address this.

    Thanks

    Bokononist

     

    Harrigan VonStudly
    Stay Frosty.
    A Band Apart.
    #787 - 2012-03-06 23:48:23 UTC
    neur0zen wrote:
    Haleuth wrote:
    This looks to me like the start of "lets balance all the classes and dumb the game down"

    Strange that the only time i ever need to read these forums is when other people tell me ingame that soundwave wants to make stupid changes.

    You should get a grip tbh.

    You promised/insinuated a gradual progression in ships and equipment from t1-t2-t3 and beyond, you deliver t3 cruisers and thats it.

    You talk about balancing broken ships by increasing training time instead of tweaking the broken ships.

    You promised/insinuated that we'd be fighting in space ships within a planets atmosphere, you deliver an FPS.

    You promised/insinuated mining revamps to "bring back the gold rush" and deliver nothing.

    You set up faction war round tables and dont turn up.

    Instead of cunjuring up more crazy ideas how about doing some of the stuff you as a company have been saying your going to do for nearly a decade?

    How about dealing with the remote repair agro mechanic thats been pissing folk off for nearly a decade?

    Nah dont bother, get yourself back to the pub and magic your next stupid idea out of your arse.



    Man you should go to csm just for that post



    Quoting for posterity
    Midnight Hope
    Pator Tech School
    Minmatar Republic
    #788 - 2012-03-06 23:50:07 UTC
    Woa! Wait a minute!
    I I have not trained Destroyer to lvl4 then I can not fly cruisers and battlecruisers? (which today I can).
    Not sure I like this.

    Alpheias
    Tactical Farmers.
    Pandemic Horde
    #789 - 2012-03-06 23:51:00 UTC
    This is one of those ideas that get people into a lot of trouble, Ytterbium. First it was Zulu and then it was Zinfindel and now it looks like it will be you.

    Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

    Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.

    Ugleb
    Jotunn Risi
    #790 - 2012-03-06 23:51:56 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:

    SKILLS:

    [list]
  • Destroyer and Battlecruiser reimbursement: it has been said before, but allow us to repeat again, that we do not want to cut ships you can already fly. Thus, having BC skill at 5 would mean you get all four variations at 5.



  • I have BC lvl 5. But only fly minnie. Does this mean I will get the other 3 races BC skill at 5 even though I don't have the frigate > dessie > cruiser skills?

    And following on, if I don't get the other 3 racial BC's at 5, wouldn't that be unfair? Now thar be a dilemma. What?

    http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/

    The Jotunn Risi are now recruiting, Brutor ancestry required in order to best represent the Brutor interest.  Join channel JORIS to learn more!

    Ugleb
    Jotunn Risi
    #791 - 2012-03-06 23:52:55 UTC
    Midnight Hope wrote:
    Woa! Wait a minute!
    I I have not trained Destroyer to lvl4 then I can not fly cruisers and battlecruisers? (which today I can).
    Not sure I like this.



    This is a really small amount of training.

    http://uglebsjournal.wordpress.com/

    The Jotunn Risi are now recruiting, Brutor ancestry required in order to best represent the Brutor interest.  Join channel JORIS to learn more!

    Hans Jagerblitzen
    Ice Fire Warriors
    #792 - 2012-03-06 23:54:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
    Two step wrote:
    I don't blame you *at all*. I have requested (and been denied) that CSM be part of the Dev blog review process. This blog is proof that some thought should be paid to that suggestion.


    This is the real news story here, folks. There will be plenty of time to discuss the details of the ships, and explain everything, but if we're still having fundamental communications breakdowns after all this that means there's a company culture issue to be resolved. I absolutely agree, the CSM should always know about published material before its released.

    If nothing else, its for the good of the company. If the CSM can provide feedback that helps mitigate *rage* over a suggestion, that its just good PR and good business. I don't mean mitigate *rage* by sweeping unpopular ideas under the rug. I mean mitigating *rage* by making sure the most common complaints are pre-empted with thorough explanations. Even if it means a Dev Blog that's twice as long. A lot of us have reacted here before CCP got around to clarifying everything.

    The CSM can only help CCP as much as they allow them too. This insta-threadnought could have been prevented, or at least made a lot more productive instead being 90% emotional like it is right now if the CSM could have given feedback earlier.

    CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

    Harrigan VonStudly
    Stay Frosty.
    A Band Apart.
    #793 - 2012-03-06 23:56:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Harrigan VonStudly
    Ugleb wrote:
    Midnight Hope wrote:
    Woa! Wait a minute!
    I I have not trained Destroyer to lvl4 then I can not fly cruisers and battlecruisers? (which today I can).
    Not sure I like this.



    This is a really small amount of training.


    Whether it's a small amount of training, which reads "must train again" isn't the issue mate. In other words what you are saying is that is ok to be ****** over because it won't take a person "too" long to train that skill back??
    Steve Ronuken
    Fuzzwork Enterprises
    Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
    #794 - 2012-03-07 00:00:25 UTC
    Midnight Hope wrote:
    Woa! Wait a minute!
    I I have not trained Destroyer to lvl4 then I can not fly cruisers and battlecruisers? (which today I can).
    Not sure I like this.



    Not the way the requirement system works. It's a requirement to inject the skill. not use the ship.

    Woo! CSM XI!

    Fuzzwork Enterprises

    Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

    Orion Guardian
    #795 - 2012-03-07 00:01:12 UTC
    Midnight Hope wrote:
    Woa! Wait a minute!
    I I have not trained Destroyer to lvl4 then I can not fly cruisers and battlecruisers? (which today I can).
    Not sure I like this.




    Didn't you READ the Dev blog???

    "Due to the way nested requirements work, it would also mean pilots would not need to re-train anything to fly Battleships or Cruisers. All of this is work in progress of course and subject to change, especially since we are still discussing skill reimbursement options."

    Thats said in tehre so NO you do NOT need to traind estroyers to fly anything above. You WOULD need to train racial destroyers if you want to crosstrain to another race you don't alreay have the cruiser skill trained in though!!
    Laura Dexx
    Blue Canary
    Watch This
    #796 - 2012-03-07 00:03:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Laura Dexx
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    words words words


    Why are you ignoring Black Ops Battleships? Why does it take less time to get into a ******* powerful dreadnought than a gimped overpriced shitmobile?

    I think having Battleship v as a requirement for training capital ships is pretty frigging necessary. Here's a graph on how raw hit points increase per ship class, notice how it just dwarfs the rest of the ship classes:

    This is why racial battleship V needs to stay in the prerequisites of everything capital!

    Surely that sort of massive increase in raw HP warrants a little bit longer training time? Or do you really want this game to turn even more into a capital borefest than it is already?
    James1122
    Perimeter Trade and Distribution Inc
    #797 - 2012-03-07 00:03:50 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Ok this thread needs some love now.


    SKILLS:


  • Destroyer and Battlecruiser reimbursement: it has been said before, but allow us to repeat again, that we do not want to cut ships you can already fly. Thus, having BC skill at 5 would mean you get all four variations at 5.



  • For me personally that was my only concern. But now that you've clarified on this issue i'm really looking forward to these changes. Its going to make a whole load of semi-useless ships viable and will hopefully drastically improve pvp for the better :)

    ....

    Hans Jagerblitzen
    Ice Fire Warriors
    #798 - 2012-03-07 00:03:50 UTC
    Zaxix wrote:

    The training times for these is heinous, so we'd like to get as much lead time as possible to know how to address this.

    Thanks


    Everyone, please note that the very first post in this thread confirms that no one will be retraining. They will most likely be throwing skill points at you to grab the stuff you need to fly what you already have. And if everyone complains loudly enough, probably a few more.

    Just trying to keep down on the forum thread clutter, no sense going on and on about skill retraining if it there will be no disruptions in game play over it (and you may come out ahead depending on how the bribe goes!)

    CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

    James1122
    Perimeter Trade and Distribution Inc
    #799 - 2012-03-07 00:06:09 UTC
    Laura Dexx wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    words words words


    Why are you ignoring Black Ops Battleships? Why does it take less time to get into a ******* powerful dreadnought than a gimped overpriced shitmobile?

    I think having Battleship v as a requirement for training capital ships is pretty frigging necessary. Here's a graph on how raw hit points increase per ship class, notice how it just dwarfs the rest of the ship classes:

    This is why racial battleship V needs to stay in the prerequisites of everything capital!

    Surely that sort of massive increase in raw HP warrants a little bit longer training time? Or do you really want this game to turn even more into a capital borefest than it is already?


    Confirming that its all about raw HP

    ....

    Antoine Jordan
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #800 - 2012-03-07 00:07:30 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Ok this thread needs some love now.


    SKILLS:

    [list]
  • Destroyer and Battlecruiser reimbursement: it has been said before, but allow us to repeat again, that we do not want to cut ships you can already fly. Thus, having BC skill at 5 would mean you get all four variations at 5.

  • Does this include the races which I don't have the cruiser skill at 4?