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New dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time

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stoicfaux
#421 - 2012-03-06 20:11:51 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
Liang Nuren wrote:
stoicfaux wrote:
+1.0 for something that is long overdu
-0.5 if we have to retrain for ships we can already fly (i.e. the BC/Destroyer skill makeover
0.
which rounds up to +1

Great change, but I'm going to loathe having to train multiple BC5 skills


Fortunately, you won't. It helps to read. ;-

-Liang

You mean this? "Due to the way nested requirements work, it would also mean pilots would not need to re-train anything to fly Battleships or Cruisers."

I'll believe it when I see it. There's something bugging me about how you would program/implement that, but I can't put my thumb on it.

Plus, I'll probably be one of those people who will use the refund to buy "non-optimally mapped" skills and then retrain for the faction BC skills with my current Perc/Will mapping

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#422 - 2012-03-06 20:11:52 UTC
If you remove BS V as requirement for caps then i should be able to get it reimbursed, my capital alt does not need 30d of training for something it will never use.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#423 - 2012-03-06 20:11:58 UTC
Death Reactor wrote:
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9129 wow

I will not spend one second training for a ship that i can already fly. If it goes through as is ill be suiciding my aeon into the sun and go play mw3.

Edit: Personal attack removed, CCP Phantom.


Yet another time, for the less than observant:

CCP Soundwave wrote:

No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Nirnaeth Ornoediad
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#424 - 2012-03-06 20:12:01 UTC
quygen wrote:
First page \o/

Still wondering about splitting those BC skills, i trained that to lvl5 about 2,5 years ago.
have to do all the training all over again.


That assumes they don't grant you all 4 x Racial BC skills at V.

Why is everyone assuming that the racial BC skills will take as much time as the generic BC skill?

Fix POSes.  Every player should want one (even if all players can't have one).
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#425 - 2012-03-06 20:12:56 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Changing prereqs isnt balancing, changing ship stats is.

Edit: Inappropriate language removed, CCP Phantom
Tubolard
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#426 - 2012-03-06 20:14:16 UTC
I don't think splitting up the Destroyer and BC skill makes sense. it means you are giving both of those skills equal weight to frigates and cruisers, however when I train for example Caldari frigate to 5 i get access to multiple different ship specializations like interceptor and assault frigate, however destroyers only gives me interdictors. I feel that if the Destroyers and BC skills are split into race spacific skills more ships in these classes need to come out to make it worth it to train level five in multiple races.
Laura Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#427 - 2012-03-06 20:14:51 UTC
Nirnaeth Ornoediad wrote:
quygen wrote:
First page \o/

Still wondering about splitting those BC skills, i trained that to lvl5 about 2,5 years ago.
have to do all the training all over again.


That assumes they don't grant you all 4 x Racial BC skills at V.

Why is everyone assuming that the racial BC skills will take as much time as the generic BC skill?


Looks like you're the one who can't read, the blog clearly states that the racial battlecruiser skills will most likely have the same rank.
PinkKnife
The Cuddlefish
Ethereal Dawn
#428 - 2012-03-06 20:15:22 UTC
For those not wanting caps to be faster trains you can easily simply crank up the capital ships training time to compensate for it.

I approve of the basing the BC skills off of the cruiser level. I have CS4 and BC V, and I want to keep both Amarr and Gallente BC V (those are what I fly). I don't want to have just some random ass Caldari BC V thrown into my queue ruining my pretty skill list.
Bluestream3
the Goose Flock
#429 - 2012-03-06 20:15:24 UTC
Don't overdo it with streamlining, CCP. Streamlining is ****. That is all I have to say.
Bull Eramix
Tir Capital Management Group
#430 - 2012-03-06 20:15:37 UTC
Dear CCP employees,

There are again tearz of joy ... this time because you are trying to give us more viable options for ships to fly which leads to additional strategies to be developed to utilize these ships.

I only have one albeit small issues with this devblog...

Why did you have to post it while I am at work, it's hard to explain the tearz to my coworkers, whereas my corp mates on vent would be a much better support group.


As for the fears surrounding the potential for basically there being more SP required to fly 'everything'. (Not just vets who showed concerns about command-ships, or capital ships, but new players who may require less time for an individual ship, but more SP overall to be well rounded). I'm glad that you CCP responded as quickly as you did, but at the same time you know what?

You've done so much to address concerns with the game from little things to hybrids over the past few months that I'm just going to sit back and TRUST you to make the best decision for the game/community as a whole on this one (whatever that works out to be), even if I may not personally agree with whatever you go with.


August Hayek
Xynodyne
The Initiative.
#431 - 2012-03-06 20:15:44 UTC
Heh,

Super Carrier and Titan pilots don't need destroyer or battlecruiser skill for now. Do I have to skill destroyer and battlecruiser with my SC char?

lulz
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#432 - 2012-03-06 20:16:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
stoicfaux wrote:

You mean this? "Due to the way nested requirements work, it would also mean pilots would not need to re-train anything to fly Battleships or Cruisers."

I'll believe it when I see it. There's something bugging me about how you would program/implement that, but I can't put my thumb on it.

Plus, I'll probably be one of those people who will use the refund to buy "non-optimally mapped" skills and then retrain for the faction BC skills with my current Perc/Will mapping


No, I mean:
CCP Soundwave had this to say here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=898503#post898503

CCP Soundwave wrote:

We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place.


And again here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=898531#post898531

CCP Soundwave wrote:
We'll sit down and have a chat about it, but what we're looking to do is create a solid ship scheme, not take things away from people. You'll be reimbursed properly.


More info: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=898882#post898882

CCP Soundwave wrote:
No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up.



-Liang

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
hrusha
Open Designs
#433 - 2012-03-06 20:16:37 UTC
The ::lack of reading comprehension:: is strong with this crowd!


Can't wait to see how this makes the game even more exciting!

Also- make caps harder to get, we need more sub-cap ship proliferation and pewpew!


Also #2:
Quote:
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=9129 wow

I will not spend one second training for a ship that i can already fly. If it goes through as is ill be suiciding my aeon into the sun and go play mw3.
- PLEASE DO!

Hru
Zabir Kal'Uragan
Sanguine Cabal
#434 - 2012-03-06 20:16:51 UTC
Aarin Wrath wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We have a "if you could fly it before, you can fly it now" philosophy, that means properly reimbursing/giving skills not to leave people stranded in ships they could fly before the change. Again, nothing is fixed yet.

Fewf. Having done some extensive cross training this was my only real fear.

On the whole it honestly sounds like an incredibly good change. I just hope those of us who cross trained a lot, or have a huge amount of SP in flying space ships don't get short changed by this whole process.

Keep it up CCP. You guys are kicking ass this expansion. Big smile


The devil is in the detail

If I have level 5 bc and they refund me the sp I can technically invest it in level 1 of each and therefore "fly what I could yesterday". I haven't seen a promise that I will have them trained to the same level as yesterday which is where it matters to me.

Stop screwing with the few things left in the game that arent broken. The skill tree is what it is, there's no secret internerd rules that say it has to follow some strictly logical progression, its part of what makes eve the uniquely brilliant game it is.

As for making all ships across the races have defined roles, STOP TRYING TO EFFING TURN EVE INTO WOW-IN-SPACE
Heimdallofasgard
Ministry of Furious Retribution
Fraternity.
#435 - 2012-03-06 20:17:58 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


Changing prereqs isnt balancing, changing ship stats is.



You're just being short sighted... these changes enable greater iteration.
Akelorian
FinFleet
Northern Coalition.
#436 - 2012-03-06 20:18:00 UTC
So CCP "Goonswarm" Shockwave

How will you defend the fact that you have lowered the skills required to fly capital ships knowing full well that the alliance you were part of has been attempting to get people to train bs 5 so they can get into these ships? I mean it kinda looks fishy in my personal opinion that your helping your old alliance out in anyway possible without it looking too obvious? I could care less about the other changes being made, but that sticks out like a sore thumb.

Thank you in Advance, I will be going the other route as well.
Alastanir
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#437 - 2012-03-06 20:18:02 UTC
Training a carrier should be harder to get into than a marauder or black ops. I vote "nay" on lowering cap requirements to BS IV.
Plyn
Uncharted.
#438 - 2012-03-06 20:18:15 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Phantom
Crosi Wesdo wrote:


Changing prereqs isnt balancing, changing ship stats is.


Lulz... Somebody forgot to read both halves of the blog!!!!!
Mikron Alexarr
New Age Solutions
#439 - 2012-03-06 20:18:24 UTC
Zabir Kal'Uragan wrote:
Aarin Wrath wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We have a "if you could fly it before, you can fly it now" philosophy, that means properly reimbursing/giving skills not to leave people stranded in ships they could fly before the change. Again, nothing is fixed yet.

Fewf. Having done some extensive cross training this was my only real fear.

On the whole it honestly sounds like an incredibly good change. I just hope those of us who cross trained a lot, or have a huge amount of SP in flying space ships don't get short changed by this whole process.

Keep it up CCP. You guys are kicking ass this expansion. Big smile


The devil is in the detail

If I have level 5 bc and they refund me the sp I can technically invest it in level 1 of each and therefore "fly what I could yesterday". I haven't seen a promise that I will have them trained to the same level as yesterday which is where it matters to me.

Stop screwing with the few things left in the game that arent broken. The skill tree is what it is, there's no secret internerd rules that say it has to follow some strictly logical progression, its part of what makes eve the uniquely brilliant game it is.

As for making all ships across the races have defined roles, STOP TRYING TO EFFING TURN EVE INTO WOW-IN-SPACE


Quoted for truth.
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Commonwealth Vanguard
#440 - 2012-03-06 20:18:31 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Rico Minali wrote:
The idea is fundamentally great, but like many people have pointed out, all of us who have made sure we are crosstrained extensively are going to be mighty pissed...

So, basically what would happen is overnight I would lose the ability to fly 3/4 of the BC and destroyers entirely and have to retrain, which lets face it is complete crap. Being able to jump literally into any T1 or t2 subcap is something I made sure I am capable of.


Not to single you out, but yet again...

"IF YOU CAN FLY IT NOW, YOU CAN FLY IT LATER."


I probably overshot and panicked and missed that bit, thx.

I usaully trust the judgements made and go with it, but I saw red when i thought id lose the ability to fly my precious command ships of every race...

Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing.