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From this thread: (Fanfest: Ship Balance) Tech Level


Helping CCP decide what to do.
Helping you to understand, too.

[Fanfest Video 6:25] CCP Ytbritrumin (?):
CCP Ytrbymium says that CCP doesn't really know about this one thing, and so I had a contributional idea fitting-in with current plans! Helping CCP's pre-planning. What I think this presentation also suggests is a real gigantic change in whole of EVE's spaceships even to a point where some may disappear forever!
Readers, 'open your miiind!'





Economized (T1)
Ship hulls at value-level prices that fulfil the market, which also set standard for more specialized or generalized variations. These Economized variations are for aspiring manufacturers, traders and even corporate businesses. Because they are economized means they potentially yield more profit than specialized and generalized. But how?
Economized will utilize almost any modules and appropriate rigs on the market except Specialized modules and rigs. This allows them a multi-purpose prerogative yet their singular hull constricts them in becoming fully adaptive in their role like Generalized ships. Because they can utilize so many modules and rig on the market, this contributes to financial prosperity of traders and corporate businesses.

(new Brand):- "spaceships are serius biznus"
Economized ships are so versatile and excessive that they become branded by corporations including your Militia, NPC corporations and player corporations. This encourages marketing strategies of corporations though the act of branding cannot be varied. You develop a brand and use it or sell it.

• A player-corporation's brand is used to manufacture pre-installed fixated Rigs unto a T1 ship.
• A player-corporation's brand can be sold on the market to other corporations.
• A player-corporation manufacturing a branded variation of a T1 ship will have their logo painted on it.
• A Branded variation of a T1 ship will have pre-set Rigs. This allows repackaging of that ship with Rigs!
• A player un-branding a branded variation of a T1 ship will remove corporation logo, deduce to 'standard T1' and deny Rig-repackaging.
• A player-corporation re-branding a branded variation of a T1 ship is fraudulent (Re-branded cannot be sold in High Sec).

(new Militia):-
The war requires an budget solution. Economized ships are the option! Faction Warfare pilots are reimbursed a non-marketable improved variation of Economized T1 ships based on their Militia rank. Upon reimbursement they are provided with multiple options of pre-defined ship Fittings to suit that player's role. These modules are also Militia-branded and are very much non-marketable.
These ships are patterned with camouflage and are property of your Militia. You cannot and must not reprocess nor sell.

• Free for faction warfare!
• Limited reimbursements!!!
• Cannot sell on market.
• Cannot create contract.
• Cannot reprocess.
• Can trade with other Militia players!

Specialized (T2)
Enhanced singular hulls of their economic counter-part granting one or multiple unique bonuses from their collaborated hulls designed specifically to be exceptional in a role. Their hull exclaims its differentiation from all other ships being easily-identifiable. They allow for Specialized Modules to be fitted! These ships are worthy of a well-commanded fleet of multiple diverse compositions of roles, making fleeting battles most successful.

• Specialized ships are efficient in a purpose they are designed for.
• Specialized ships do no apply to grandular Capital-sized vessels.

Generalized (T3)
Multipular hulls. Extremely adaptive yet inefficient. A very much expensive ship but comparable survivability to full-modulated, full-rigged and well-fitted economized variations. Relying mainly on conjunctive modular Subsystems instead of singular versatile Modules they are at risk of being tactically-countered by not being adapted against a particular threat! Exposure of weak spots! Ideal for the solitary player.

They look different with their interchanging hull extensions!

.

Is this change happening 4/24?

The producer clip seemed to suggest it was.

They've said they are gonna start with smaller ships...

When is this actually going to be implement? I know I've trained up BC and destroyer to 5 for this patch, but I also know a lot are still training them. What happens if you are 1/2 way done BC 5 when the patch hits? do you get all racial BC skills to 4 1/2 or 4?

I still don't see why people are talking about compensatory actions when there are bigger things to think about. Not only will this change further solidify BCs roles as being utterly ridiculous, it creates a logistical nightmare in the present as well as in the long run.

I am sure there are pilots that have gone straight for battleships. If they're like most, there is some cross training involved, meaning 2 or more racial battleships. If someone skipped Destroyers and BCs, they'd receive both skills for each race they have at level 4 for free the moment the change went live. Has anyone yet considered this problem?

The REAL solution is simple, but people just refuse to accept it. As I said before, the role and fundamental design for dessies is "first to kill, first to die". BCs were fundamentally designed (with ****-poor implementation) around the same concept. They can already eat cruisers for breakfast, but for the game's scale to be solid and consistent, they must not be able to hold their own against more than one cruiser, or be any kind of threat to a BS. BCs need to follow the same role as dessies; "First to kill, first to die."

BCs don't need to be nerfed, they need to be gimped! The skill change only makes this much needed process much more difficult. That's not just how I see it, it's how it is!

- Just reset 'spaceship command' skill tree

- Give players same amout of skillpoints

- Offer the possibility to reset again one time (in case of mistake)


Simple, making the switch easiest, satisfying players cause they can reassigned unused skillpoints


Edit : at D-Day, the server just have to check the active ship and automaticly attribut minimum skillpoint to fly it

Edit 2 : Server can send a mail with old spaceship command skill level list to help players to remember what they have before the reset

When I initially read this blog , I thought I had a pretty good idea on what the proposed changes were and I was very pleased with proposal. Now that I've watched and re-watched Fanfest video on the same subject, I'm not sure anymore.
I understand this is all in the "discussion" stage and thus there's a long way to go before any sort of final changes appear, however I want to voice several concerns I have regarding ship lines.

About Ship lines vs tiers

1. My perception of the proposed changes
It seems to me that the ship lines are being confused with ship roles. Tiers/Lines should dictate fittings, slots, hitpoints, etc. while roles dictate ship specific bonuses and hardpoints. Lines should NOT replace roles!
Initially, I thought ship lines would dictate stats similar to how tiers do today. For example, Amarr Combat ships would have more lows for DPS and Tank, while Amarr Support vessels would have more medium/high slots. From the fanfest video it seems like you are propsing to not only create lines, but generally shove all ships into certain role or another. For example, giving all Amarr Support Vessel lines tracking EW bonuses and/or turning them into drone boats. I completely disagree with this proposal and I think it will be extremely dangerous and damaging for EVE.
The beauty of EVE is the amount of freedom you have with fitting and customizing your ships. That freedom needs to be maintained and remain flexible. The reason lower tiers are not used right now is because the higher tier ships usually have the same overall layout only much better. For example, Prophecy and Harbinger. Why would anyone fly a prophecy when for a few more mil you can get a harbinger which has more DPS, More hitpoints, more med/high slots, more fittings, bigger drone bay, etc. In other words, a Harbinger gives you much more freedom with your fittings than a Prophecy which only has one missile launcher going for it's advantages over Prophecy. Of course the lower tier quickly become outcasts.
Changing these ships into different roles ]however will only make things worse!!
First of, it would actually reduce the amount of available ships as certain ships will become useless in the general roles. For Example, if I wanted to go with an average DPS/Tank BC, I still have a choice between Prophecy, Harbinger, or Oracle. I might not always chose the Prophecy as other ships offer better value, but it's still an option that I choose sometimes. Turning said Prophecy into an oversized Arbitrator would eliminate it from my options.
Second, it will render ships with the same role but smaller size completely useless. The reason why nobody uses crucifiers is because an arbitrator does the same but better. Smaller ships with the same role will only have their size and cost going for them and we all know that this is hardly enough to make them worthwhile.

2. How I think ship lines should be applied
A much better way to go about this problem would be to maintain the ships roles while tweaking their stats depending on what line they belond to. That is to dictate the stats like tiers do but not actually take the ship out of it's general purpose.
For example, lets use the aforementioned BCs and apply Support Vessel and Combat ship lines to them. For arguments sake, if we put the Harbinger into the Combat Ship line, it should have lower amount of medium/high slots in favor of additional low slots, and reduced dronebay. It should be better tanked and provide more DPS than a Prophecy but not not be faster or more versatile.
The Prophecy on the other hand, should still have stats comparable to a battlecruiser, but maybe with additional high and medium slots (to increase it's support/ew abilities) and increased CPU. Make it slightly faster and more agile, give it maybe another or two launcher hardpoints and a bigger drone bay than a Harbinger (to make it more versatile). This way you will still have two battlecruisers which have relatively similar DPS and tank, but one will be more much more versatile and better for those who prefer to go support/ew path, and the other will be much better fit for great tank and/or DPS. Thus making them both very attractive ships to fly depending on your style, skills, composition and needs of the fleet, etc. In other words.... EXPANDING YOUR FREEDOM AND OPTIONS!!!
On a similar Case, Scorpion vs Raven do not expand your freedom and options, they're completely different role ships even though they're both battleships, and Scorpion vs Blackbird are a perfect example of two ships with the same roles but different sizes. Scorpion could easily be cast into combat role making it very slow, with a very strong tank and reduced dronebay, reduced turret hardpoints, (basically reducing it's versatility), reduced high slots, while maintaining it's ECM Bonuses and roles. The blackbird could be cast into a support role similarly making it faster, giving it a bigger dronebay, maintaining it's turret/launcher ratio, etc. (making it more versatile)

3. Bombardment Ships Line
I seriously have no clue what this line is all about... it makes 0 sense to me, and it seems like it was slapped in there just to sound cool and give the list somewhat of a (meaningless) variety?

About proposed changes to skill trees (racial BCs, t2s)

EXCELLENT PROPOSAL!!!! Should have been like this from the beginning and I'm glad you guys are finally getting around to them. I'm behind you guys on this one 100%!

*It is possible that I completely misunderstood what CCP Ytterbium was hinting on, and his proposed changes are the same ones I'm recommending. In that case I apologize for the long wall of text, otherwise, a discussion of this magnitude deserves no less!!! : p

Oh... well from my understanding that was supposed to be handled by a module, specializing entire ships into being able to bombard planets doesn't make much sense unless it's a secondary additional attribute/bonus to their primary line/role.

From what I read it seemed like bombardment ships = all Missile ships.... which made me go... huh?

Thanks for the reply.

yeah, has there been a real (non player, aka credible) answer to this?

personally i hadn't been playing nearly long enough to have enough warning, i'll be able to get BC 4 as well as dessy to 4, but neither to 5, am i looking at a full refund and my BC unusable after this patch or what?

because frankly, SP reimbursement would be nice but too little too late and i know, i've heard the "if you can fly it now, you'll be able to fly it after" PR line, but... they only ever mention those who have both skills trained to lvl 5 when they tout that little snippet.