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New dev blog: Rebalancing EVE, one ship at a time

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Nomad I
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2012-03-06 18:58:03 UTC
Lucas Kyu wrote:

But, retroactive skill requirement changes is ******** and UNFAIR. Seriously, don't do that racial bc skill thing. The only reason you've given for that is that it looks better on a spreadsheet. It's not broken as it is now. Keep things fair.



/this
Miwako Teshigawara
Suddenly Failure
#182 - 2012-03-06 18:58:14 UTC
I think the changes to make EVE more self-consistent are awesome. New players make a lot of assumptions like "Tech 2 is always better than Tech 1 or Faction" and are confused when they discover Tech 2 is for specializing the item. These changes make it easier for new players.

Also, refocusing on ship roles is an excellent change. For the longest time I thought "bigger is better" because that's how other MMOs work... the bigger my ship, the more I'll win. After some sit-downs over TeamSpeak with friends, I've realized that even the little ships matter because of their role. It took me way too long to realize that, and I hope these changes keep new players from a similar fate.

Keep up the good work, CCP!
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#183 - 2012-03-06 18:58:41 UTC
Simple, if you have battlecruiser IV today then give all racial battlecruiser IV for the races you have cruiser IV in.
Makalu Zarya
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#184 - 2012-03-06 18:58:45 UTC
So let me get this straight...you are going take people who can fly and have flown ALL battlecruisers perfectly and go...sorry we are gonna nerf you, enjoy retraining everything for another 4 months...oh and you can't fly command ships now either, because you have to train bc skill to V for all the respective races?

and same thing for dictors?

am I right or am i missing something here?
CCP Soundwave
C C P
C C P Alliance
#185 - 2012-03-06 18:59:19 UTC
Makalu Zarya wrote:
So let me get this straight...you are going take people who can fly and have flown ALL battlecruisers perfectly and go...sorry we are gonna nerf you, enjoy retraining everything for another 4 months...oh and you can't fly command ships now either, because you have to train bc skill to V for all the respective races?

and same thing for dictors?

am I right or am i missing something here?



You're missing something :)
Karlhockey Forte
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#186 - 2012-03-06 18:59:53 UTC
Terrible way of handling something that for all intents and purpose isn't currently broken save for the idea of making things in a graph "cleaner."

Please go back to the drawing board and see if there is any other ways of going about this.
Jackie Cross
MacGyver Communications
Minerva Exalt Holdings
#187 - 2012-03-06 19:00:14 UTC
SamGromoff wrote:

-snip-

Currently, BCs are a Rank 6 skill (1.56m SP) and cruisers are Rank 5 (1.28m). To fly all cruisers and BCs perfectly thus costs 6.68m SP. But what if we lower the requirements?

Cruisers = Rank 3 (768k SP)
Racial BCs = Rank 4 (1024k SP)

To fly everything perfectly would now take just over 7m SP, meaning the difference is just over a week of training. Of course, CCP could always credit us that little bit extra if they like Bear

-snip-


This tbh. Page 6, at the bottom.
AetomHaert Mother
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2012-03-06 19:00:34 UTC
Cronus Zontanos wrote:
Ugh. I love this game but you whining people really get on my nerves. Everyone complains about FiS content and balance, CCP moves to make sweeping balance changes that actually make sense, and everyone complains that it's too much change. You people are impossible.


No we are complaining about losing access to ships we have, fly and love, and in some cases (command ships) are very expensive hulls and fits.

I am all about doing away with the tier system, however messing with peoples skillsets is a little bit of a different story.

"But Aetom," you say, "they did away with the learning skills no problem." Yes but those skills didnt really do anything. We are talking about taking away skills that are directly applicable to playing the game.
JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#189 - 2012-03-06 19:00:36 UTC
Makalu Zarya wrote:
So let me get this straight...you are going take people who can fly and have flown ALL battlecruisers perfectly and go...sorry we are gonna nerf you, enjoy retraining everything for another 4 months...oh and you can't fly command ships now either, because you have to train bc skill to V for all the respective races?

and same thing for dictors?

am I right or am i missing something here?



For starter you are missing the fact that you already have skillpoints to fill one racial BC so you can fly it from the start.
Alara IonStorm
#190 - 2012-03-06 19:00:44 UTC
Andrea Griffin wrote:
WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THE REAL CCP?

Seriously though - killing the tier system is something the player base has wanted for YEARS now, and finally it's on the horizon. I'm very excited at what this means for the future of Eve. People wanted new ships? Well, something like this will give us a dozen ships (or more) per race all at once.

This will keep PvP interesting for a long time to come. ♥

Skill stuff aside. This so much!

Have more Hearts.

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
Mokokan
Transtar Services
#191 - 2012-03-06 19:00:58 UTC
The kneejerk reaction is I'm somewhat apprehensive about how this might lead to the nerf of some of my favorite ships, and I could care less about cap ships, but I really see this as a positve step forward, and would love to see how this develops. A number of ships are just plain useless.

The skill point thing? Whatever. Gotta train something. Cool
Bastaardicious
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#192 - 2012-03-06 19:01:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Bastaardicious
You guys must have really lost common sense this time.

So....

You will need racial BC5 for a command ship, but no longer need BS5 for a capital.

Brilliant, one way to dumb down the game guys.

When are you going to introduce a new über ship that's better than the titan for the older players? Sjeez.


Next patch:

nerf carriers, everyone has one.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#193 - 2012-03-06 19:01:28 UTC
Easy crosstraining leads to monocultural fleet doctrines.

It's the single biggest reason why people just resort to the Drakes and Hurricanes, and nobody bothers to try anything else.

Limits feed creativity.

.
aetherguy881
Grouchy Rediculous Ugly Man Pigs
#194 - 2012-03-06 19:01:47 UTC
I really like how you have the full, high-res images only re-sized on that blog... It loves to kill browsers on slower internet connections...
Riffix
Synergistic Arbitrage
#195 - 2012-03-06 19:01:57 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


  • We have a "if you could fly it before, you can fly it now" philosophy, that means properly reimbursing/giving skills not to leave people stranded in ships they could fly before the change. Again, nothing is fixed yet.

You've addressed my (and other's) main concern. As long as I can still fly all the things I can now, I love where this is going. This is a great example of CCP really getting to the heart of things that haven't made sense or were neglected for YEARS. Shocked

The only problem with this approach is that to make serious changes, things are gonna get shuffled and people will have to change the way they do some things. Players aren't always happy about that and I can only hope that people don't freak out simply because things change. Just keep these types of changes for the better and things should be fine Big smile

Lead, Follow, or Get the #@$!@ Out of the Way.
Papa Boats
Birth Control Defects
#196 - 2012-03-06 19:02:31 UTC
Bitter vet checking in.
I am really annoyed about having to retrain destroyer and BC for 3 races to have them all maxed again. I am at 90mil+ SP and currently have every T1 and T2 ship available to me. I have all T2 weapons at my disposal. I like it this way as I am able to use the very best ships and weapons whenever I need them. I worked hard for this and feel that this would negativly impact the few players who hate supercaps online the way I do.

As I feel what should happen if the racial destroyers and BC if it goes through should be. SP and cost of SB should go back into the pilots account. Also all SP and costs for command ships and interdictors should go back to the pilot. Furthermore any further skills and capital ships that require these ships should be dropped.

I say this for a couple reasons. I will not retrain 4 racial destroyers just so I can fly an interdictor thats outperformed by a HIC which I do not need to train for to have the better and stronger ship. Also for command ships why would I need this skill as the ships do not always match up. I am in the CFC meaning the CMD ship I need is either the cald or minm ships. While the capital ships I fly are the Thanny and the Moros. It is going to make it extremly difficult and add lots of time to getting me into my capital ships if these changes are not well thought out.
Prioleau
Four Bird LTD.
#197 - 2012-03-06 19:02:43 UTC
Roime wrote:
Easy crosstraining leads to monocultural fleet doctrines.

It's the single biggest reason why people just resort to the Drakes and Hurricanes, and nobody bothers to try anything else.

Limits feed creativity.



Spot on!
Laura Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#198 - 2012-03-06 19:02:54 UTC
That's rather saucy and all, but is this just pure ******* punishment for those who can fly all racial destroyers and battlecruisers? Are you really going to force us to train three additional racial skills just to fly the ships we used to fly? This won't fly and you know it.
Lolmer
Merciless Reckoning
#199 - 2012-03-06 19:03:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Lolmer
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
The skill requirement changes for destroyers and battlecruisers is very tricky to tackle indeed. We fully acknowledge having to re-train for ships you can already fly is not appealing at all.

As said in the blog, nothing is set in stone yet, we are considering various reimbursement options as this is still quite a high level change.

EDIT SO PEOPLE CAN SEE IT:

  • New destroyer and battlecruiser skills would be same rank than existing ones
  • We have a "if you could fly it before, you can fly it now" philosophy, that means properly reimbursing/giving skills not to leave people stranded in ships they could fly before the change. Again, nothing is fixed yet.


That last part isn't quite true, unless you quadruple the skillpoints you return to us for Destroyers and Battlecruisers. Since with Battlecruisers IV (and the related sub-skills) I can fly every battlecruiser in the game, but after this proposed change, I'll only have the skillpoints to pick one Battlecruiser (e.g. Gallente).

Instead, you should replace the existing Battlecruiser and Destroyer skills that people have into their new components. So someone with Destroyers V would now get Amarr Destroyers V, Caldari Destroyers V, Gallente Destroyers V, and Minmatar Destroyers V. That way those who've invested in this skill, and the sub-skills, are not now suddenly locked out of the ship(s) they have.

Looks like this was already answered at least a few times by Devs, e.g.
CCP Soundwave wrote:

No one is saying you have to retrain them. Our principle for the reimbursement here will be "if you could fly it yesterday, you can still fly it today". Ytterbium will post the further details of this once it's written up.


and
Liang Nuren wrote:
This is AWESOME, but I'm a bit miffed that those of us who have extensively crosstrained are going to be stuck re-training up 3 Destroyer and 3 BC skills.

-Liang

Ed: Also, your comments link in the dev blog doesn't work. <3 Yeah, the more I think about it the more that it bothers me to have to spend ~2.5 months retraining to fly the many, many, many battlecruisers across all races that I already fly. :|

Further addendum to help keep everyone up to date:

CCP Soundwave had this to say here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=898503#post898503

CCP Soundwave wrote:

We'll find a suitable reimbursement that makes everyone happy. I'm not terribly fussed about giving away a little extra if it moves we move the ship progression system into a better place.


And again here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=898531#post898531

CCP Soundwave wrote:
We'll sit down and have a chat about it, but what we're looking to do is create a solid ship scheme, not take things away from people. You'll be reimbursed properly.
Virgil Travis
Non Constructive Self Management
#200 - 2012-03-06 19:03:48 UTC
Heimdallofasgard wrote:

To be honest I don't think capitals should be made easier to train for, but I DO like that they're opening up this kind of dialogue, it will make things very interesting.



Not so sure that's a good thing myself, maybe that one should be left alone. Admittedly there are plenty of other skills required to fly caps effectively but allowing pilots to get into them with BS4 may well lead to a lot of comedy kill mails and whines and we have enough of that right now.

Unified Church of the Unobligated - madness in the method Mamma didn't raise no victims.