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LVL 4 insanity?
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Dantes Wolf
Interstellar Corporation of Universal Management
#1 - 2011-09-08 12:24:53 UTC
Is it me or are the lvl 4' completely insane atm?

Doing "the assualt" - lvl 4 in a 70% ressed golem, with 1300 HP healed 4 seconds and seriously, i can barely keep up - isnt this asking a bit much of people? seriously?

Having trained for 2 years and 3 months, flying the ultimate mission ship with elite skils and i have to struggle for it?

and wut about the loot? in the old days every wreck had stuff in em, now 3/4 are empty and when i do get loot, they contain T1 items, excuse me, but where is my income here?

Seriously, EVE is great yadda yadda yadda, but considering the time it takes, i'd better off mining veldspar with crap skills then doing these missions..

Fix maybe?

D.

"Before you diagnose yourself with low selfesteem and depression, you should first make sure, that you are not just, in fact, surrounded by assholes".
Dane El
Negative Density
#2 - 2011-09-08 12:33:59 UTC
If you think mission income is slow, you should really try out mining. It'll make you appreciate what you make from the missions again. 1 tick of bounties from a good mission is usually worth what I could mine in 2 - 3 hours. And that's ignoring the profits from salvage, loot, mission rewards and LP. Mining really, really sucks.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3 - 2011-09-08 12:45:53 UTC
Dantes Wolf wrote:
Doing "the assualt" - lvl 4 in a 70% ressed golem, with 1300 HP healed 4 seconds and seriously, i can barely keep up - isnt this asking a bit much of people? seriously?
Not really, no, since catching that kind of aggro is easily avoidable.
Quote:
and wut about the loot? in the old days every wreck had stuff in em, now 3/4 are empty and when i do get loot, they contain T1 items, excuse me, but where is my income here?
It has always been T1 items. And anyway, the income is not in the loot — that just slows you down. The real money is in LP.
Quote:
Fix maybe?
Fix what? The game can't fix your decision to run them in the most difficult and inefficient way possible.
Dantes Wolf
Interstellar Corporation of Universal Management
#4 - 2011-09-08 13:12:20 UTC
Dane El wrote:
If you think mission income is slow, you should really try out mining. It'll make you appreciate what you make from the missions again. 1 tick of bounties from a good mission is usually worth what I could mine in 2 - 3 hours. And that's ignoring the profits from salvage, loot, mission rewards and LP. Mining really, really sucks.



Its too much, not for me, but for every1 else, and yes i dare speak for em - problem is, in order to have something remotely ressembling "freetime" AKA doing stuff in the game that isnt ISK griding, you would need a much higher income then the game supports atm, no matter what you do - idea is grandofc, gotta give em that: "Let as many people as possible, use their real life money on plexes, so we (CCP) gets phat and the casual player can get isks for their pewpew."
All good an well, except that for the cusal player who has a work and lives out of the west 20 bucks on top the monthly fee is a ******* mountain of money.

Thats the first thing, secondly the time it takes to make money enough to buy and equip a standard HAC when in highsec is simply too ******* much - i agree, work b4 pleasure, no doubt - but grinding missions for 8 hours or more to afford a ship that lets u fly into danger and die in less then 10 minutes? its too much

Just to specify: a casual player has 8 hours a month online in EVE, giving him, ONE..? PVP experience a month?

The problem needs balancing.

D.

"Before you diagnose yourself with low selfesteem and depression, you should first make sure, that you are not just, in fact, surrounded by assholes".
Mart Allini
Lead Farmers
#5 - 2011-09-08 13:17:07 UTC
1) You don't need a HAC to have fun PvP. Lots of fun to be had in t1/t2 frigs. You can make enough money for 50 rifters in less than an hour probably.
2) L4 missions aren't the only way and far from the best way to make money in EVE
Silver Sego
True Blue Haulers
#6 - 2011-09-08 13:18:29 UTC
Dantes Wolf wrote:

Just to specify: a casual player has 8 hours a month online in EVE, giving him, ONE..? PVP experience a month?
D.


EvE has a casual niche? Oh right, Red vs Blue frigate wars.

You only get to play with the things that equal the amount of effort you put in.
Dantes Wolf
Interstellar Corporation of Universal Management
#7 - 2011-09-08 13:24:25 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Dantes Wolf wrote:
Doing "the assualt" - lvl 4 in a 70% ressed golem, with 1300 HP healed 4 seconds and seriously, i can barely keep up - isnt this asking a bit much of people? seriously?
Not really, no, since catching that kind of aggro is easily avoidable.

I had two groups on me ffs :S


Quote:
and wut about the loot? in the old days every wreck had stuff in em, now 3/4 are empty and when i do get loot, they contain T1 items, excuse me, but where is my income here?
It has always been T1 items. And anyway, the income is not in the loot — that just slows you down. The real money is in LP.

It has always been T1 items, aye ur right, meant basic T1 items, meta lvl 0/tech lvl 1 - and ur wrong about the loot, really the loot used to be king money, but.. thats suddenly nerfed.? why? ( and check out the market, if you ever get there - the meta lvl 4 items usually sells for more then a T2 item, looks like you missd out on a ******* godlike amount of cash, hunting ur lps lol - plus salvage, that shizzle will add about 2-4 milion extra onur decent lvl 4 - or has that been nerfed too? ;)

Quote:
Fix maybe?
Fix what? The game can't fix your decision to run them in the most difficult and inefficient way possible.


ty for crap, and suggeting i cant fly - didnt ur mother say that if you havent got anything nice to say, then stfu? =)

anywho - i DO know how to fly, but getting pounded to brink of wrecking on aggroing two groups and shooting em from 40 KM+ is not my idea of achievement, considering i bloody fly with more then 35 million SP's -.-

"Before you diagnose yourself with low selfesteem and depression, you should first make sure, that you are not just, in fact, surrounded by assholes".
Dantes Wolf
Interstellar Corporation of Universal Management
#8 - 2011-09-08 13:27:20 UTC
Mart Allini wrote:
1) You don't need a HAC to have fun PvP. Lots of fun to be had in t1/t2 frigs. You can make enough money for 50 rifters in less than an hour probably.
2) L4 missions aren't the only way and far from the best way to make money in EVE


i agree, but still, the missions been nerfed, at least on wreck drops, or so it seems to me, ive never seen empty wrecks on drops when i startet the game, now the drop **** and got crap value.

D.

"Before you diagnose yourself with low selfesteem and depression, you should first make sure, that you are not just, in fact, surrounded by assholes".
Kinta Huron
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-09-08 13:33:52 UTC
Mart Allini wrote:
1) You don't need a HAC to have fun PvP. Lots of fun to be had in t1/t2 frigs. You can make enough money for 50 rifters in less than an hour probably.
2) L4 missions aren't the only way and far from the best way to make money in EVE

Frig pvp sucks period!
Dantes Wolf
Interstellar Corporation of Universal Management
#10 - 2011-09-08 13:34:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Dantes Wolf
Silver Sego wrote:
Dantes Wolf wrote:

Just to specify: a casual player has 8 hours a month online in EVE, giving him, ONE..? PVP experience a month?
D.


EvE has a casual niche? Oh right, Red vs Blue frigate wars.



You only get to play with the things that equal the amount of effort you put in.



disregarding the first comment, the anwer to the second is the very topic of discution: theres not enough value compared to the effort being put in - the difference between highsec and 0.0 financials are waaay outta key - and yes. i Could fly to the 0.0 land, join up with an alliance there and start making king dollars, but i prefer highsec life and the tranquillity there - And yes, theres definelty a point in: hte higher the risk, the higher the gain - BUT I'm still argueing that the revenues from highsec life are too low to give the full experience of the game, at least without supporting ur EVE.life with additional funds.

And that is a major problem, not just for me, but for people who are suddenly missing out on a lot of the game due to real life financial issues, a sad situation imho.

D.

"Before you diagnose yourself with low selfesteem and depression, you should first make sure, that you are not just, in fact, surrounded by assholes".
Lady Go Diveher
Doomheim
#11 - 2011-09-08 13:44:12 UTC
A good HAC fit will set you back about 150mil ISK or so.

You recon that's 8 hours of grind, eh?

So your ISK/hr on level 4 missions is about 18-20mil?

That's about what you'd expect to get in a Drake.

You're doing something very very very wrong if you think Level 4 missions need buffing.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#12 - 2011-09-08 13:48:27 UTC
Dantes Wolf wrote:
I had two groups on me ffs :S
Yes? Easily avoidable.
Quote:
It has always been T1 items, aye ur right, meant basic T1 items, meta lvl 0/tech lvl 1 - and ur wrong about the loot, really the loot used to be king money
No, loot always slowed you down compared to bounties and LP. And the amount of meta items is largely unchanged — some T1 stuff was replaced because it injected too much mineral from the wrong sources.
Quote:
the meta lvl 4 items usually sells for more then a T2 item, looks like you missd out on a ******* godlike amount of cash
In the time it takes for you to hunt down, collect, and sort through those meta 4 items, you can complete a whole second mission if you do it right. Meta 4 is nice and all, but they do not in any way make up for the time lost. So no, the godlike amount of cash is actually a waste of time and a decent loss of income.
Quote:
ty for crap, and suggeting i cant fly - didnt ur mother say that if you havent got anything nice to say, then stfu?
No, my mother wasn't stupid that way. You see, sometimes, not nice things need to be said in order to inform the other party of their problems. And yes, you're doing a lot wrong: you're not managing aggro; you're geared towards killing as fast as possible; you are wasting time on chance money-making at the expense of assured (and much larger) returns.
Quote:
i bloody fly with more then 35 million SP's -.-
The problem is, that doesn't say anything. SP only tells you how much your clone costs, not how “powerful” your character is or how well it performs in any given situation.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2011-09-08 14:36:40 UTC
I am still a relavitely new player (7mil SP) and can handle assault fine with my Dominix (don't even have T2 sentries or heavies yet).

And I do fine with Loot/salvage, although i have an alt that follows me everywhere in his noctis. The loot isnt wonderful, but the salvage can be. I just grab the loot as well since I am salvaging anyhow.
Zynar11
Perkone
Caldari State
#14 - 2011-09-08 14:46:16 UTC
Try flying a tengu. I've been flying 4's in one for a few months and once the web frigs are killed you can almost fall asleep running the rest of the mission.
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#15 - 2011-09-08 15:48:58 UTC
Dantes Wolf wrote:

disregarding the first comment, the anwer to the second is the very topic of discution: theres not enough value compared to the effort being put in - the difference between highsec and 0.0 financials are waaay outta key - and yes. i Could fly to the 0.0 land, join up with an alliance there and start making king dollars, but i prefer highsec life and the tranquillity there - And yes, theres definelty a point in: hte higher the risk, the higher the gain -
You are aware of the fact that one of the biggest complaints floating around wrt income in this game is that highsec offers way too much yeh? The really good mission runners will literally make more than a carrier doing sanctums in nullsec, and that's even assuming you're lucky enough to actually get a good system to run them in, which most don't.

Last time I ran lvl 4s (and I did so VERY casually) I ran them in a vargur and pulled in ~60mil an hour. That's killing everything, and not counting LP (I never liked dealing with LP anyway). That's a LOT of isk, and assuming you can pull in 50mil an hour (which is NOT hard by any stretch) it would only take you 7-8 hours a month to buy a plex, and given that plexs are essentially a way for people with too much money and not enough time to trade with people who have too much time and not enough money, 7 hours of gaming really isn't a lot for a month. If you have a hard time paying for the game with isk, AND you can't afford the 15 bucks a month, maybe it's time you reevaluate your priorities?



Dantes Wolf wrote:

BUT I'm still argueing that the revenues from highsec life are too low to give the full experience of the game, at least without supporting ur EVE.life with additional funds.

And that is a major problem, not just for me, but for people who are suddenly missing out on a lot of the game due to real life financial issues, a sad situation imho.

D.
A lot of the game? Like what? You've already said you don't want to join a nullsec alliance, and short of joining rvb or being one of PLs SC/titan pilots, there isn't really a whole lot of pvp available for people who only want to log on a few hours a week, so what exactly are you doing that's draining your isk? Nothing wrong with pvping in a frigate/cruiser, hell even a BC can be replaced within an hour or 2 of carebearing. How is the isk you make now not enough to fund what you do in eve?
Frel
The Pro Choice
#16 - 2011-09-08 16:04:59 UTC
How about you just stop running missions, find a good fit for your ships and get into doing incursions.... Far far far faster isk to be made. And a whole lot more fun.
Frel
The Pro Choice
#17 - 2011-09-08 16:58:13 UTC
"Dantes Wolf wrote:

BUT I'm still argueing that the revenues from highsec life are too low to give the full experience of the game, at least without supporting ur EVE.life with additional funds.

And that is a major problem, not just for me, but for people who are suddenly missing out on a lot of the game due to real life financial issues, a sad situation imho.

D."

In Highsec last weekend I made enough in 4 days of doing incursions to put 2 plexs on each of my three accounts. (by only playing one account)
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#18 - 2011-09-08 17:04:44 UTC
Frel wrote:


In Highsec last weekend I made enough in 4 days of doing incursions to put 2 plexs on each of my three accounts. (by only playing one account)


This is a pretty sweet example of why Incursions in high sec need a heavy reward nerf and low sec ones need a huge boost.

Incursions could have been the new "go to low sec for phat rewards" but CCP botched that one...
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
#19 - 2011-09-08 17:17:33 UTC
Emperor Salazar wrote:
Frel wrote:


In Highsec last weekend I made enough in 4 days of doing incursions to put 2 plexs on each of my three accounts. (by only playing one account)


This is a pretty sweet example of why Incursions in high sec need a heavy reward nerf and low sec ones need a huge boost.

Incursions could have been the new "go to low sec for phat rewards" but CCP botched that one...

Low/nullsec incursions already make a good 50% more than their highsec counterparts. The problem is that there's no way to force an incursion to spawn in your neck of the woods if you're out in 0.0, so you're pretty much SOL if you intend on using them to make isk. If CCP made a sov thing that brought on sansha incursions they'd be much more profitable in null than they are in HS.
Dantes Wolf
Interstellar Corporation of Universal Management
#20 - 2011-09-08 18:06:41 UTC
hey o/

just had a look a the posts, idk what the problem is regarding my mission methods, if any1 wanna earn a quick buck i'd be happy to take a few lessons in how to optimize my working em - as one said, he's making 50-60 million an hour Vs. my 15 million, i'd be happy to learn from him or any1 one else - I would pay well for the effort.

regarding game balance - i just had a look at the price of a wyvern, and seeing as it is what it is, a major ******* ship and that it costs 2.5 billion, my, would be, 50 million per hour here, isnt that bad - i digres on the statement of game balance.

and lastly ty for the advice on incurtions - quesiton tho, what when ur fleet isnt in the most winning one? u loose all the time invested without pay of any kind, right?

D.

"Before you diagnose yourself with low selfesteem and depression, you should first make sure, that you are not just, in fact, surrounded by assholes".
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