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CCP Tallest would love you forever if....

First post
Author
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#101 - 2012-02-23 23:53:44 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Cireg wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
My popcorn BPO is all ME/PE'd up and ready to go, in preparation for more hilarious posts such as this:

Vheroki wrote:
I DARE you to nerf that tracking the result you will see it in the monthly bills. When i see you guys post i just want to ask for my money back after 9 years.


I do hope, however, that one of the main things to come in this focus on war, is a much better sov system which allows for more small skirmishes instead of forcing every system to become a fuckoff huge fight with 1000+ on each side. I'd say that'd be a more effective fix than nerfing titan tracking, although it has to be said that the amount of tears that would generate would probably be delicious.


The problem is that some alliances (including my own) is based upon being supercap heavy and not numbers heavy. It has been a deliberate choice, and adding the titan nerf to the already existing supercarrier nerf (and we all know that supercarriers aren't really a danger to a subcap fleet apart from ECM Burst) would remove the foundation of these alliances. That is of course a choice we've made, and have been aware that it could lead to a nerf. However, we are also a central part in the 0.0 warfare that has been going on for years, and the general feeling is that if the titan nerf is similar to the supercarrier nerf, then why bother?

Looking at rebalancing titans is fair enough. However from our point of view, a nerf of the titan in similar fashion to supercarriers would simply mean that CCP's vision for future 0.0 warfare is numbers > anything else, be it fleet composition, ingame skillpoints and FC abilities. Yes, good pilots will sometimes beat bad pilots while outnumbered. Good pilots however won't win against 600 man maelstrom fleets (with welpcanes and drakes) that can instapop triage carriers and anything else short of a supercarrier.

My concern is that if the nerf of titans will be as heavy as the supercarrier nerf was towards fighting subcap fleets, you'll have some rather important alliances in the 0.0 warfare deciding they can't be bothered waiting for a "fix" on sov warfare that removes the numbers > everything focus that is currently taking place from CCP. No one can be interested in that happening, despite how much in-game fighting and "hate" there is between our respective blocs.

I anticipate many "Your tears are delicious" and similar mocking tones, but I am not really that angry about the nerf, I just fear with CCP's track record of fixing things, there will be a long time between a titan nerf, and a fix to the whole sov warfare/numbers game issue.


you sound like you are in PL tell me you are PLCool

TLDR:

were used to powning anyone we come across and dont want to loose our shiny toys... please dont make us elite players actually have to play with the lower scrubs of the game...Cry

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#102 - 2012-02-23 23:55:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Titans being able to hit battleships isn't broken, but being able to track hics, dics, logis and recons with transversal is messed up, imo.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Cireg
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2012-02-23 23:55:51 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
Cireg wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
My popcorn BPO is all ME/PE'd up and ready to go, in preparation for more hilarious posts such as this:

Vheroki wrote:
I DARE you to nerf that tracking the result you will see it in the monthly bills. When i see you guys post i just want to ask for my money back after 9 years.


I do hope, however, that one of the main things to come in this focus on war, is a much better sov system which allows for more small skirmishes instead of forcing every system to become a fuckoff huge fight with 1000+ on each side. I'd say that'd be a more effective fix than nerfing titan tracking, although it has to be said that the amount of tears that would generate would probably be delicious.


The problem is that some alliances (including my own) is based upon being supercap heavy and not numbers heavy. It has been a deliberate choice, and adding the titan nerf to the already existing supercarrier nerf (and we all know that supercarriers aren't really a danger to a subcap fleet apart from ECM Burst) would remove the foundation of these alliances. That is of course a choice we've made, and have been aware that it could lead to a nerf. However, we are also a central part in the 0.0 warfare that has been going on for years, and the general feeling is that if the titan nerf is similar to the supercarrier nerf, then why bother?

Looking at rebalancing titans is fair enough. However from our point of view, a nerf of the titan in similar fashion to supercarriers would simply mean that CCP's vision for future 0.0 warfare is numbers > anything else, be it fleet composition, ingame skillpoints and FC abilities. Yes, good pilots will sometimes beat bad pilots while outnumbered. Good pilots however won't win against 600 man maelstrom fleets (with welpcanes and drakes) that can instapop triage carriers and anything else short of a supercarrier.

My concern is that if the nerf of titans will be as heavy as the supercarrier nerf was towards fighting subcap fleets, you'll have some rather important alliances in the 0.0 warfare deciding they can't be bothered waiting for a "fix" on sov warfare that removes the numbers > everything focus that is currently taking place from CCP. No one can be interested in that happening, despite how much in-game fighting and "hate" there is between our respective blocs.

I anticipate many "Your tears are delicious" and similar mocking tones, but I am not really that angry about the nerf, I just fear with CCP's track record of fixing things, there will be a long time between a titan nerf, and a fix to the whole sov warfare/numbers game issue.


you sound like you are in PL tell me you are PLCool


Sorry, spacebro. I'm in the alliance of the dude from Mortal Kombat who throws around lightning and thunder, or some such Big smile


Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#104 - 2012-02-23 23:56:15 UTC
Cireg wrote:

The problem is, that while you argue that there is currently no counter to "all titans, all the time" (which I am not in complete disagreement with you on), my argument is that there is currently no counter apart from "all titans, all the time" to the 600 man Maelstrom fleet. You can alpha any form of logistics we can place on field, bombers during TiDi is unrealiable at best, Abaddons and Tengus are tried and tested, but when you reach the number of Maelstroms where anything gets alphastriked, there is really very little you can do, other than do the odd warp-in and snipe a little.


A good rock-paper-scissors situation with fleet comps would be good, so that (for instance) maels beat abbadons beat tengus beat maels. But an alphafleet is fundamentally less of a problem than titanfleet because it involves a lot more people in the fight and so even if it's just who has more maelstroms, that's a more fun game than who has more titans. You can, of course, bomb a mael fleet though: bombers always exist as a subcap counter for poorly flown subcaps.

I would have no problem with CCP tweaking maels once titans are properly nerfed, but it's less of "must be done now" issue.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#105 - 2012-02-23 23:59:27 UTC
let's just all fly rifters

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2012-02-23 23:59:51 UTC
Cireg wrote:
bombers during TiDi is unrealiable at best

I call bullshit on this.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#107 - 2012-02-24 00:00:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Andski wrote:
let's just all fly rifters

This.

Edit: Whoa, wtf, 3 posts in one second?! Editedit: nvm, I'm blind. That's a minute.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#108 - 2012-02-24 00:01:40 UTC  |  Edited by: MeBiatch
Andski wrote:
Titans being able to hit battleships isn't terribly broken, but being able to track hics, dics, logis and recons with transversal is messed up, imo.



yes listen this is an easy fix

change the damage applied formula to add 3 variables

0 = cap ship
1= battleship/bc
2= cruisers and smaller

if 0 is true then x = 0-1
if 1 is true then x = 0.25-1
if 2 is true then x = 0.75-1

to do damage ingame the chance to hit formula comes up with a number between 0 and 1 this is rated against a random number being x which its self is anywhere between 0 and 1.

if cth is higher then x then you hit and the hier it is then x defines what kind of hit it is...

what this will do is titans can still do max damage to cap ships

has its damage to bs/bc's reduced by at least 25%

and its damage to everything else by at least 75%

edit:
you could even add a 4th level for frigs where x = 0.9 - 1
then you would literally have to get a perfect shot to even get a glancing blow... which would be nill chances...

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Cireg
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2012-02-24 00:03:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Cireg
EDIT: ******* double posts!
Cireg
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2012-02-24 00:04:40 UTC
Andski wrote:
let's just all fly rifters


You guys can field more of those! Nerf numbers! Bear
Cireg
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2012-02-24 00:05:19 UTC
Cireg wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
Cireg wrote:

The problem is, that while you argue that there is currently no counter to "all titans, all the time" (which I am not in complete disagreement with you on), my argument is that there is currently no counter apart from "all titans, all the time" to the 600 man Maelstrom fleet. You can alpha any form of logistics we can place on field, bombers during TiDi is unrealiable at best, Abaddons and Tengus are tried and tested, but when you reach the number of Maelstroms where anything gets alphastriked, there is really very little you can do, other than do the odd warp-in and snipe a little.


A good rock-paper-scissors situation with fleet comps would be good, so that (for instance) maels beat abbadons beat tengus beat maels. But an alphafleet is fundamentally less of a problem than titanfleet because it involves a lot more people in the fight and so even if it's just who has more maelstroms, that's a more fun game than who has more titans. You can, of course, bomb a mael fleet though: bombers always exist as a subcap counter for poorly flown subcaps.

I would have no problem with CCP tweaking maels once titans are properly nerfed, but it's less of "must be done now" issue.


Yeah, that's why some sort of official thread/blog from CCP would be good. Is this just a "hotfix" for balancing titans, or does this include/is the beginning of some new plan for how sov warfare should be working.

For me it's not so much of a "you nerfed titans, so you must nerf Maels", but more of it being that titans (with supercarrier support) is the central counter to numbers in general in the current sov warfare mechanics. I liked the post by the Goon who wanted to split sov. warfare up into smaller skirmishes over a constellation, rather than the current game with stuffing people into one system and watch the slow motion fleets duking it out.

Nerfing titans in similar fashion to supercarriers without adressing the structural issues behind the massive use of supercaps by those who can, I fear will be deadly to the 0.0 warfare.

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2012-02-24 00:07:10 UTC
Cireg wrote:
but more of it being that titans (with supercarrier support) is the central counter to numbers in general in the current sov warfare mechanics.

No, it's swapping some numbers for another type of numbers.

Cireg wrote:
Nerfing titans in similar fashion to supercarriers without adressing the structural issues behind the massive use of supercaps by those who can, I fear will be deadly to the 0.0 warfare.

Maybe we'll see more dread usage.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#113 - 2012-02-24 00:07:26 UTC
does quoting your self make you feel special?

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#114 - 2012-02-24 00:13:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
Cireg wrote:

For me it's not so much of a "you nerfed titans, so you must nerf Maels", but more of it being that titans (with supercarrier support) is the central counter to numbers in general in the current sov warfare mechanics. I liked the post by the Goon who wanted to split sov. warfare up into smaller skirmishes over a constellation, rather than the current game with stuffing people into one system and watch the slow motion fleets duking it out.

Nerfing titans in similar fashion to supercarriers without adressing the structural issues behind the massive use of supercaps by those who can, I fear will be deadly to the 0.0 warfare.


They're not really a "counter" to numbers, they're a counter to everything except more titans. It's just numbers win, but we changed what number we look at to determine who wins. Even if maels are not touched at all, and even if a maelfleet is a counter to everything (and it's not, because of bombers), you're changing EVE from a game where 750 people are really all that matters in 0.0 to a game where everyone can make a difference. EVE is a flat out better game with more maels > everything than more titans > everything. It's not a perfect game at that point, but it's a much better one.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#115 - 2012-02-24 00:17:33 UTC
It's nice to see CCP listen to the player base feedback on the forums.

Also why is there still a covert ops that only has two high slots?? Such a super easy thing to fix too. :(
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#116 - 2012-02-24 00:22:19 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
It's nice to see CCP listen to the player base feedback on the forums.

Also why is there still a covert ops that only has two high slots?? Such a super easy thing to fix too. :(


Helios would be OP in combat if it had more.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)

rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#117 - 2012-02-24 00:25:55 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Jada Maroo wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
MeBiatch wrote:
ok just googled it mat leave in iceland for men is 90 days... so three months... so umm when were the little ones born?


it's 9 months
3 for the mom
3 for the dad
3 months they can split however they like

but then you get more when you produce more than one baby at once, I don't know exactly how much more

now be nice and let Tallest enjoy the time with his super cute little dudesBig smile



This system seems exploitable. Make baby, have baby, get 9 months off, sell baby on black market, make new baby, have new baby, get 9 more months off, sell new baby on black market...

A clever Icelander would never have to work again and make a fortune selling babies.


this is pretty common, the black market for babies is pretty big in Iceland.

if you're coming for fanfest you better be sure what you're eating if you're not a person to eat babies (some people seem to have a problem with it)


Think instead of PLEX, we can just give you a baby and you give us a ticket to fanfest? Just need to get with 12 girls, and I have a free year of EVE coming.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#118 - 2012-02-24 00:29:43 UTC
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
It's nice to see CCP listen to the player base feedback on the forums.

Also why is there still a covert ops that only has two high slots?? Such a super easy thing to fix too. :(


Helios would be OP in combat if it had more.


because people obviously fit guns on covops and the 1 light drone you can carry on a Helios does significant damage

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#119 - 2012-02-24 00:32:38 UTC
Andski wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
It's nice to see CCP listen to the player base feedback on the forums.

Also why is there still a covert ops that only has two high slots?? Such a super easy thing to fix too. :(


Helios would be OP in combat if it had more.


because people obviously fit guns on covops and the 1 light drone you can carry on a Helios does significant damage


hey now

do not disparage the noble BATTLE HELIOS

many a sabre pilot (okay, one that I know of) have fallen to its might
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support
Goonswarm Federation
#120 - 2012-02-24 00:33:06 UTC
in conclusion, nerf the helios