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So what happens if we feel the CSM does not represent us?

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#221 - 2011-09-08 02:54:36 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Zymurgist
English only please. Zymurgist

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#222 - 2011-09-08 02:59:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
ah youre a troll nice to report you
hey I get to try out the ignore feature too

have the odd feeling theres gonna bw a lotta goons I cant see, especially as the mods dont want to moderate them

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Vin Hellsing
#223 - 2011-09-08 03:04:47 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Zymurgist
Weaselior wrote:
English only please. Zymurgist


English only please. Zymurgist
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#224 - 2011-09-08 03:13:38 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Zymurgist
English only please. Zymurgist

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Vin Hellsing
#225 - 2011-09-08 03:20:12 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Zymurgist
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
English only please. Zymurgist


English only please. Zymurgist
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#226 - 2011-09-08 03:23:29 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Zymurgist
Vin Hellsing wrote:
[quote=Kengutsi Akira]English only please. Zymurgist


English only please. Zymurgist /quote]

English only please. Zymurgist

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes
Richard Hammond II
Doomheim
#227 - 2011-09-08 03:46:18 UTC
now this is funny

Goons; infiltration at its best - first bob... now ccp itself. They dont realize you guys dot take this as "just a game". Bring it down guys, we're rooting for you.
Flamespar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#228 - 2011-09-08 05:19:33 UTC
Well I guess the original question: So what happens if we feel the CSM does not represent us? has been answered.

And the answer is that the CSM and Goons will happily come and troll any attempts to even discuss such a question.
hyphy thizz
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#229 - 2011-09-08 06:14:03 UTC
Richard Hammond II wrote:

so its my fault I wasnt in the game yet when these elections were held?

Good job on delegitimizing everything you have said thus far. 0.0 is meant to be the "End Game" of Eve, and considering the fact that high sec rewards for the individual player are competitive with that of 0.0, something is wrong. You speak out of your ass and you do not understand how much this CSM has done for this game. If it weren't for the CSM, CCP would be trying to sell golden ammo for those with too much real money, so that they can utterly destroy anyone who fucks with them. You are loud, ignorant of the facts, and you can't capitalize your words. Come back when you pass an English class and understand this game a little better.
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#230 - 2011-09-08 06:20:01 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
Well I guess the original question: So what happens if we feel the CSM does not represent us? has been answered.

And the answer is that the CSM and Goons will happily come and troll any attempts to even discuss such a question.


This has been answered, repeatedly, by multiple csm members in this thread along with many non CSM members who all came to pretty much the same conclusion.

You clearly are not interested in the answer.
Bruxtok
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#231 - 2011-09-08 06:21:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Bruxtok
Flamespar wrote:
Well I guess the original question: So what happens if we feel the CSM does not represent us? has been answered.

And the answer is that the CSM and Goons will happily come and troll any attempts to even discuss such a question.


What are you even whining about? CCP seems to think it is a good idea to add random useless "features" to a broken game all in an attempt to "OMG we need more subscribers!! Whar is monies!??" and The Mittani has called them on that issue in a public blog. Many have done the same, but none with the same recognition.

Or maybe you like Second Life in SPACE. Alone... In a room... With an expensive Monocle...

Or did I miss the point? Do you have something else to say? Are you just crying "IMPEACH!!!"? Really!?
Flamespar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#232 - 2011-09-08 06:31:08 UTC
Vile rat wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
Well I guess the original question: So what happens if we feel the CSM does not represent us? has been answered.

And the answer is that the CSM and Goons will happily come and troll any attempts to even discuss such a question.


This has been answered, repeatedly, by multiple csm members in this thread along with many non CSM members who all came to pretty much the same conclusion.

You clearly are not interested in the answer.


Of course. CSM is wonderful. I was foolish to think otherwise. Let us never tolerate any discussion to the contrary again.

Rainbows and Nullsec for all.
Vile rat
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#233 - 2011-09-08 06:43:31 UTC
Flamespar wrote:
Vile rat wrote:
Flamespar wrote:
Well I guess the original question: So what happens if we feel the CSM does not represent us? has been answered.

And the answer is that the CSM and Goons will happily come and troll any attempts to even discuss such a question.


This has been answered, repeatedly, by multiple csm members in this thread along with many non CSM members who all came to pretty much the same conclusion.

You clearly are not interested in the answer.


Of course. CSM is wonderful. I was foolish to think otherwise. Let us never tolerate any discussion to the contrary again.

Rainbows and Nullsec for all.


What is the specific question you wanted answered then? I'd be happy to assist you. You appear to have asked what happens if you feel the CSM does not represent you, the very clear and concise answer is "Work to get somebody elected who you feel represents your interests more".

On the surface it appears that you just don't like that answer, but that IS the answer.
hyphy thizz
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#234 - 2011-09-08 06:45:14 UTC
Also, I may be a newer player, but I have been reading a lot. (Not like there's anything else to do at this point in the game. Missions are boring and skills only train so fast.) One thing that I can tell is that CCP shot themselves in the foot when they made the CSM, they gave the players a voice. By reading the eve-wiki, you can tell that CCP hasn't done anything about a large part of the CSM's platforms. At least 3 of the different CSMs called for hybrid weapon re-balances, and yet again, that is another platform for this current CSM. You can only say that this CSM doesn't represent you if you have actually read the meeting notes and if you pay attention to what they do, and I bet that if you were to do so, they stand for a lot more than you think they do. The real problem is that CCP rarely listens to the CSM.

I have enjoyed my time in EVE thus far, but it seems that there are many problems with this game and the developers may or may not be intent on fixing them. If they decide that their reaction to this pr disaster would be to kick the CSM and either elect a new one or abandon the idea, it shows that they are not committed to making this a better game and I will unsubscribe and play TF2 until KOTOR comes out.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#235 - 2011-09-08 07:07:01 UTC
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


In total, you should expect to make 30-40 mill ISK per hour with little difficulty, just blitzing.

What ISK/hr do you get from the Veldspar?


wow, what kind of ship you using to do that? Best I can afford to lose (number one rule of EVE) is a Drake right now. I cant run in and blitz (as per guide4eve.com's instructions on doing that) and not get killed usually lol

I get 13 mil - eh I duinno I dont usually watch the clock, next time I dump Ill watch



Tengu. Note that many people claim higher than that, especially when they have an alt. But even with a well-fitted Drake you should do better than mining Veld.

Anyway the point is that it's easily possible to make far more doing hi-sec level 4s than it is possible to make mining veldspar. Therefore you have no cause to worry that a hypothetical nerf to level 4s implies a nerf to hi-sec mining.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Alpheias
Farmhouse.
Fraternity.
#236 - 2011-09-08 07:14:46 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Kengutsi Akira wrote:
Malcanis wrote:


In total, you should expect to make 30-40 mill ISK per hour with little difficulty, just blitzing.

What ISK/hr do you get from the Veldspar?


wow, what kind of ship you using to do that? Best I can afford to lose (number one rule of EVE) is a Drake right now. I cant run in and blitz (as per guide4eve.com's instructions on doing that) and not get killed usually lol

I get 13 mil - eh I duinno I dont usually watch the clock, next time I dump Ill watch



Tengu. Note that many people claim higher than that, especially when they have an alt. But even with a well-fitted Drake you should do better than mining Veld.

Anyway the point is that it's easily possible to make far more doing hi-sec level 4s than it is possible to make mining veldspar. Therefore you have no cause to worry that a hypothetical nerf to level 4s implies a nerf to hi-sec mining.


I probably am in dire need of coffee.. but you mine veld, in a Tengu!?Shocked

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
pussnheels
Viziam
#237 - 2011-09-08 07:17:55 UTC
Bah
Nobody is questionning the abillity of the CSM members, people are only concerned about the onesided make up of the current CSM because of low voters turnout, and that can be rigged andwas rigged infavor of acertain alliances who s only goal is to ruin the game for everyone else
No dear CSM members be honest and tell us do you really think you can influence or change the game design while you only represent less than15% of the players
second question what influence will you have if more than 25 to 30% or even more people actually voted. During the CSM election

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Meissa Anunthiel
Redshift Industrial
Rooks and Kings
#238 - 2011-09-08 07:37:18 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
Bah
Nobody is questionning the abillity of the CSM members, people are only concerned about the onesided make up of the current CSM because of low voters turnout, and that can be rigged andwas rigged infavor of acertain alliances who s only goal is to ruin the game for everyone else
No dear CSM members be honest and tell us do you really think you can influence or change the game design while you only represent less than15% of the players
second question what influence will you have if more than 25 to 30% or even more people actually voted. During the CSM election


While many people in this current CSM have a primarily 0.0 voterbase, others have made it in. I'm primarily an industrialist/lowsec PvPer, two step's wormhole (he's an alt, but alts can contribute meaningfully).

That said, one's electorate does not mean one has to act like an idiot whose only purpose is to foster one area of the game. You'd be surprised at listening to those 0.0 players who've been elected over the years actively try to improve the New Player Experience, providing good feedback on the tutorials, etc.).

In every CSM so far, all attempts at skewing things towards one area of the game that would benefit the few instead of the many has been shot down internally within the CSM before it even reached CCP. And even if it hadn't, the devs would not accept such requests. Remember we provide feedback and requests to CCP, we don't give orders.

Also, as I said before, being elected by a subset of the population does not prevent one from representing the other people, for they are equally important to the ecosystem. In an internal discussion with CCP about industry we were considering the impact of changes on casual traders/miners/inventors/etc. ffs... Yet not many of them voted for me (I think)...

Member of CSM 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#239 - 2011-09-08 07:44:36 UTC
Alot of good seems to have come out of this thread, me thinks... The only people still seriously complaining seem to be the Mittani/Goon haters, and well, there is only one response to that.

Haters gonna hate

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Vin Hellsing
#240 - 2011-09-08 07:52:43 UTC
Tallian Saotome wrote:
Alot of good seems to have come out of this thread, me thinks... The only people still seriously complaining seem to be the Mittani/Goon haters, and well, there is only one response to that.

Haters gonna hate


Just happens. :p Personally, Mittani probably has his heart in the right place, but I wonder sometimes if he's just a major attention whore. Pirate