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The Golem - The "Meh" of Marauders
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Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#121 - 2012-05-05 01:48:24 UTC
stop necroing old threads ffs. jessus

I should buy an Ishtar.
Sam Bowein
Sense Amid Madness
#122 - 2012-05-05 18:07:05 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
stop necroing old threads ffs. jessus

yeah better starting a new one and having the conversation again Roll

what are you a moderator now ?
Just Lilly
#123 - 2012-05-06 02:44:53 UTC

A 30 mil Manticore can fire standard torps up to 60.8 km
With T2 launchers and Javs, it can reach 90.1 km
No range rigs

A 850 mil Golem can only manage around half that distance, with T2 rigs attached.

It's just silly when you think about it Blink

And they should just cut the traveling time for missiles by 50% Cool

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xVx dreadnaught
modro
The Initiative.
#124 - 2012-05-06 11:39:21 UTC
Just Lilly wrote:

A 30 mil Manticore can fire standard torps up to 60.8 km
With T2 launchers and Javs, it can reach 90.1 km
No range rigs

A 850 mil Golem can only manage around half that distance, with T2 rigs attached.

It's just silly when you think about it Blink

And they should just cut the traveling time for missiles by 50% Cool



Manticore is also paper thin and cannot solo missions. It's designed for hit and run tactics... For raiding, not lvl 4's
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#125 - 2012-05-06 19:14:17 UTC
Doesent change the fact golems range with torps is sad.

The lack of range eats both rigslots and you must use javelin torps most of the time ... and that leads to crappy dps.
Jonny Frost
RavenhoId
#126 - 2012-05-06 21:01:53 UTC
Couldn't be bothered reading all the comments but to the OP.... where is the constructive comments for how to make it better/balanced?
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#127 - 2012-05-06 21:09:07 UTC
Jonny Frost wrote:
Couldn't be bothered reading all the comments but to the OP.... where is the constructive comments for how to make it better/balanced?


Simple give it more range, switch the bonus from target painters to exp radius and exp velocity, then it is close to a vargur, simple problem solved.

Of course then I suppose people might start complaining about having to manage webs on the other kronos/paladin, but you can't make everyone happy.
stoicfaux
#128 - 2012-05-06 23:02:49 UTC
Jonny Frost wrote:
Couldn't be bothered reading all the comments but to the OP.... where is the constructive comments for how to make it better/balanced?

IIRC, some main ideas that have been proposed in the thread:
* extend range on torpedoes
* shortened or interruptible TP cycles
* a "rigor" mid-slot module similar to a TC, i.e. an always on TP
* increased ammo capacity

Even then, it wouldn't necessarily fix the Golem's high skill requirements, having to use T2 launchers/ammo, volley counting, and/or overkill issues.

A 5 TP Golem in Damsel took 10m 13s to kill everything except the spider drones, whereas a Vargur took... hrmm... I don't seem to have bothered to record Vargur times for Damsel. Note to self: update to-do list.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Sunviking
Doomheim
#129 - 2012-05-07 18:53:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Sunviking
Just Lilly wrote:

A 30 mil Manticore can fire standard torps up to 60.8 km
With T2 launchers and Javs, it can reach 90.1 km
No range rigs

A 850 mil Golem can only manage around half that distance, with T2 rigs attached.

It's just silly when you think about it Blink

And they should just cut the traveling time for missiles by 50% Cool



No, missile velocity should not be increased. That is the point about missiles, you get extra range but sacrifice that 'instant-hit' you get with turrets. I actually LIKE the fact that Missiles have a long time-to-target. It's what makes their other advantages possible.
bubble trout
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#130 - 2012-05-08 00:27:28 UTC
OfBalance wrote:
Boz Wel wrote:
I wonder if CCP will plan for any missile rebalancing as a result of their (awesome looking) graphics overhaul of missiles.


I feel like that would have merited a mention at some point during fanfest, so I wouldn't go holding your breath very long.



I swear a dev made a side comment about understanding cruise (maybe torps also) were **** compared to turrets and it was on a list. I haven't been able to find the vid though.
Korgan Nailo
5ER3NITY INC
The Gorram Shiney Alliance
#131 - 2012-05-08 04:48:01 UTC
Aoki Ayumi wrote:
Agree, and I thinck Golem should be buffed in some way. Needing T2 torpedoes to "reach something" is ridiculous, and happens in no other ship.

Have you ever tried to mission with Pulse Lasers withOUT Scorch? It is the same ****.

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Exploited Engineer
Creatively Applied Violence Inc.
#132 - 2012-05-08 20:10:21 UTC
Korgan Nailo wrote:
[quote=Aoki Ayumi]Have you ever tried to mission with Pulse Lasers withOUT Scorch? It is the same ****.


There's tracking computers, tracking enhancers, rigs and implants available to help with that. And you don't need to juggle target painters at the same time.

Missiles don't have any modules to increase range. So you're stuck with rigs and implants.
Kalli Brixzat
#133 - 2012-05-08 20:16:49 UTC
Exploited Engineer wrote:
Korgan Nailo wrote:
[quote=Aoki Ayumi]Have you ever tried to mission with Pulse Lasers withOUT Scorch? It is the same ****.


There's tracking computers, tracking enhancers, rigs and implants available to help with that. And you don't need to juggle target painters at the same time.

Missiles don't have any modules to increase range. So you're stuck with rigs and implants.


Because missiles have 2 skills that increase range in conjunction with one another. Getting Projection and Bombardment up gives you an exponential (multiplying numbers, not adding them) range increase.

That said...Torps (and the Golem) are a pain in the ass. Torps really need a rework.
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
The Whale Hunters Association
#134 - 2012-05-09 07:42:02 UTC
torps are a SHORT range weapon deal with it.

blasters can barely hit people at 40km with super ******** tracking fits, guess they need need a buff too so they can hit to 80km !
Archa4 Badasaz
Vangazhi
#135 - 2012-05-09 08:30:43 UTC
Well the blaster-oriented ships usually have a basic speed that is greater then golems one. And such thing with missiles as traveling time:
If you move towards target, and it is fleeing, and you have a range of 40km, you still cannot fire at the target when it is 40KM away. Depending on speed you have to fire when you are 30-35 km away, which means you have to pursue the targets for longer.

BUT, I AM OK WITH THAT.

What I am not OK with, is the painters you need. Again same situation, you are following the target, it is fleeing at, for example 100M/s speed. If you have a gunboat, the target has no transversal and you can hit it pretty hard. BUT if you are using missiles, and the target is moving, there is such thing as missile explosion speed and explosion radius. It is a pain and you have to use 3 or even 4 tp AND NOT use rage torpedoes. And that fiddling with TP's is the thing that, for me, kills the golem.
Lilan Kahn
The Littlest Hobos
The Whale Hunters Association
#136 - 2012-05-09 11:01:30 UTC
Archa4 Badasaz wrote:
Well the blaster-oriented ships usually have a basic speed that is greater then golems one. And such thing with missiles as traveling time:
If you move towards target, and it is fleeing, and you have a range of 40km, you still cannot fire at the target when it is 40KM away. Depending on speed you have to fire when you are 30-35 km away, which means you have to pursue the targets for longer.

BUT, I AM OK WITH THAT.

What I am not OK with, is the painters you need. Again same situation, you are following the target, it is fleeing at, for example 100M/s speed. If you have a gunboat, the target has no transversal and you can hit it pretty hard. BUT if you are using missiles, and the target is moving, there is such thing as missile explosion speed and explosion radius. It is a pain and you have to use 3 or even 4 tp AND NOT use rage torpedoes. And that fiddling with TP's is the thing that, for me, kills the golem.


or i could miss every single shot cause it moved a bit side ways your **** always deals damage if it hits deal with it
Hans Momaki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#137 - 2012-05-09 17:09:07 UTC
Golems problem is the limited range and the fact that CM's/Torps lack the damage application turrets can achieve.
On top, missile users are missing a TE/TC equivalent for missiles + TP juggling is a PITA.

Quote:
or i could miss every single shot cause it moved a bit side ways your **** always deals damage if it hits deal with it


Missiles can be outrunned, and a hit worth 30dmg is not a threat at all. On top, you can adjust your transversal manually by flying smart. Missile - users don't have this advantage.
Kalli Brixzat
#138 - 2012-05-09 18:21:19 UTC
Hans Momaki wrote:


Missiles can be outrunned, and a hit worth 30dmg is not a threat at all. On top, you can adjust your transversal manually by flying smart. Missile - users don't have this advantage.


On this issues, i'll just say this: You don't fire cruise missiles or torpedoes at ships that can outrun them.
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#139 - 2012-05-09 20:01:27 UTC
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
Hans Momaki wrote:


Missiles can be outrunned, and a hit worth 30dmg is not a threat at all. On top, you can adjust your transversal manually by flying smart. Missile - users don't have this advantage.


On this issues, i'll just say this: You don't fire cruise missiles or torpedoes at ships that can outrun them.



A brilliant advice ... so you mean stop flying ships that use cruises/torps.

Very constructive.

Thank you for your valuable input on this subject.
Hans Momaki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#140 - 2012-05-09 21:51:39 UTC
Kalli Brixzat wrote:
Hans Momaki wrote:


Missiles can be outrunned, and a hit worth 30dmg is not a threat at all. On top, you can adjust your transversal manually by flying smart. Missile - users don't have this advantage.


On this issues, i'll just say this: You don't fire cruise missiles or torpedoes at ships that can outrun them.


As the previous poster said: brilliant advice...

Regardless, please tell me, why can a turret user one-shot frigs who are able to outrun missiles? Good question, rite?