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New dev blog: Your EVE client needs YOU!

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Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#181 - 2012-01-18 23:52:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Florestan Bronstein
Vincent Athena wrote:
Or maybe just look into emulators other than Cider.

Cider is not an emulator (what do you think the acronym Wine stands for?), it's just a Mac implementation of some Windows APIs that you can compile your game against.
Heathkit
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#182 - 2012-01-19 00:18:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Heathkit
Also, for planetary interaction, there are some annoying nits

1. Any time you have a window that scrolls in PI (like selecting a schematic for a processor) the mousewheel doesn't work - instead it zooms the view. Having to use the scrollbar is annoying - maybe put a filter there so we can find what we need, make the mousewheel scroll, or allow arrow key selection, or something.

2. PI windows can't be resized. This exacerbates the problem above.

3. In the "Storage" or "Products" tab in PI, I can double click on an item and go straight to creating a route. This is awesome, but the same rule doesn't apply in the "Routes" tab. If I double click on an incoming resource, it pops open a "show info" window and I have to click the "Create Route" button. It would be more consistent if double clicking on an incoming resource in the "Routes" tab took you right into creating a route.

4. I would really like to be able to click-drag uncommitted structures in order to move them around.

5. After I create a route, the dialog just closes. It would be nicer if once I created a route it returned to what I was doing before. Even if that's not feasible, after I create a route from a structure it should reopen the "Routes" tab for that structure.

6. In general, the slide down animations for opening and closing PI dialogs are annoying. They should either be eliminated or made much, much faster.

Overall, though, great job on the PI interface guys. It still needs more usability love, but it's much, much better than the other industry-oriented interfaces. In the future, it would be cool to have a "Usability" team devoted to looking at common workflows and making them less painful in terms of all the clicking, opening closing windows, etc.
Qionn
The Farnsworth Paradox
#183 - 2012-01-19 00:59:16 UTC
Performance performance, or interface/user performance..?

• Multiple-select and issue open command on containers in overview.
• Open container hotkey.
• Merge containers within x meters command in overview.
• Switch character fast/easy without logout or client restart.
• Boolean and preferably regex-filters for the container search field.
• Fix saving updated loadout.
• Make switching loadout take fewer clicks.
• When routes overlap; make the current (next gate) a different color.
• Show damage types and make npc resistances scannable.
• Queue up module activation when waiting to deactivate within x seconds to counter module activation lag and the overshooting-deactivation progress circle.
• Make it possible to anchor windows to other windows. Eg. station window to right side and chat to left-edge of station window. When station window disappears, chat is pushed to the right edge of the screen.
• Make the agent bookmarks folder openable in a separate window and have it stay put between missions.
• Hotkey or hassle-free right-click menu to show the current mission details.
Lolmer
Merciless Reckoning
#184 - 2012-01-19 01:37:05 UTC

  • When trying to activate a module/gate/whatnot, sometimes I receive the message that I have to wait 0 seconds before trying again. Really? Just queue it up for me and silently wait the requisite 0.8 seconds still pending, please.
  • At the login window, during "Authentication" after typing in my username and password, the background animation stops playing. The animation should continue to play and not lead me to believe my client crashed or that authentication is such a burden. ;)
  • I type fairly fast and, sometimes, when there is load on the client (jumping, initiating warp, or docking are the usual culprits) my chat focus changes to the first chat tab and a portion of what I had already typed ends up in the window I wasn't chatting in. If I've already pressed enter, well, then some embarrassing situations might occur. ;)
  • The Market UI is a bit laggy and slow when updating orders. When I right-click and select Modify on one of my Orders (either Corporation or personal) under the "Orders" tab of my Wallet, the window which pops up takes several seconds to load (3-5). When updating many orders, this becomes tedious.
  • The Market Quickbar should be stored on the server, or at least export-/import-able.
  • For corp management, when viewing your Members list and looking at "Last logged on", it seems that the periods increment too soon. e.g. (from memory, it's been a while since I bothered checking):


    • Player was last on < 24 hours, shows the appropriate hours
    • Player was last on >24 hours, < 2 days, shows 1 day
    • Player was last on > 2 days, shows 1 week
    • Player was last on > 1 week, shows last month



Windows 7 x86_64, OS X x86, Linux x86
Intel Core i5 M540 @2.53GHz, nVidia GeForce GT 330M
Graphics on Medium, no AA, no HDR, caching enabled.
Samuella I
The Destined
#185 - 2012-01-19 02:02:16 UTC
Introduce a colourfull symbols. We would choose if we like to see 3d icons or simple symbols that always take less time to load. Also first load number of items in the hangar ( somewhere on the top ) then the items.
Serleanka Darkwater
Biber Hyper Logistics
#186 - 2012-01-19 02:32:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Serleanka Darkwater
Since I'm playing with multiple clients on multiple monitors with multiple characters who fullfill different tasks I'd LOVE to see that all the overview and window settings (for example where and how big the windows are in station & in space), including the clients resolution and overall settings would be saved and set for each and every character.

Example:
Character A: right monitor, Resolution: 1900x1080, Ingame a huge and thin local for 0.0 space and a pretty long overview window, all chat windows somewhere on the left.

Character B: left monitor, Resolution 1280x720, Ingame: centered ship and container cargo windows for fast access during mining. all chat windows closed/minimized. Market on the left, Transactions on the right half of the monitor.

I hate moving around windows and boxes. Ah and btw: I noticed that the client needs alot of loading time since a couple of months. That should be improved too. I mean the time between "starting the client" and "beeing able to enter LogIn informations"

Edith wrote the following:
AHHH and another thing: Usually I login directly after starting the client - well asap. During the authentication process that follows I often notice that advertisment. You know the one. The one that will only display once :) Sometimes it's an eye catcher and I'd love to click on it to see what it is about BUT it doesn't let me while logging in. Why? :)
Ivanna Price
Doomheim
#187 - 2012-01-19 03:00:36 UTC
Besides many already mentioned great points.

Every time I change window sizes (not infrequently by accident by slightly dragging one edge, but often on purpose) the location of my targets seems to move back up to its default top right corner spot. That's kind of really annoying because my overview is stretched out horizontally in such a way that it covers up the first of these default-placed target icons, and also covers up the draggy thingy you use to re-position the targets.

I keep the corp bookmarks window open stacked with another window for convenience of transferring bookmarks from "personal" to "corporation" (would be nice to save bookmarks to "corporation" right away...) When I drag bookmarks to the corp bookmarks window, the corp bookmarks don't visually update in "people and places" if you have uncollapsed folders unless you collapse them and open them again. Likewise, the number of bookmarks for each folder doesn't update unless I close the window and re-open it. Basically, I think that interaction with bookmarks in general could use some love. The corporation bookmarks are great, now for some finishing touches... Smile

Every time I scan with scan probes, when I hover over the group of probes, instead of highlighting the side of the probe to drag it along chosen axes the focus is on the name of the probe. I can't get rid of it unless I zoom in so that the block representing the probe is significantly bigger than the text, which I personally don't like to do.

Allow us to have some choice in what tabs are displayed in "people and places" (other windows too, I suppose, but P&P is my big personal gripe). I don't care what constellation something is in, and I really don't care what "type" of a location it is (oh gee, a coordinate?). Allow me to remove these tabs from P&P just like we can already do with storage containers and cargoholds.

Speaking of tabs and views of containers and cargoholds, it would be nice if you could select a "default" configuration in settings and then display that for all containers where relevant, and then it could be adjusted for individual containers.
Reten Kip
Everset Dropbears
#188 - 2012-01-19 04:12:57 UTC
1) Fix the duration timers on the module icons. Sometimes they start at the top, sometimes at the bottom, sometimes anywhere else between.

2) Have instant feedback in the client when sending a command. For example, when I press "F1" to activate the first highslot mod, there is a noticeable delay before anything happens in the client. Take a look at LOTRO for an example of how it should work. If I press "F1" there should instantly be feedback in the client that the command is being processed.
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#189 - 2012-01-19 04:26:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Nalha Saldana
Please make brackets less of a performance hog, i want to use them in big fleet fights.
Xander Hunt
#190 - 2012-01-19 04:34:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Xander Hunt
I got to about page 6 before I got impatient and just had to add my own thoughts. 12 hour shift, and after I'm done posting the next three threads, I'm going to bed!

I'm not sure if any of my suggestions have been mentioned, so, if anyone sees a post I've made mentioned, let me know, and I'll remove it. I've got a few, so I will be double-posting. Sorry mods! Dev'rs want votes on what they should prioritize on, so figured that one post per subject thought would be good!

Corp Hangar
I have three toons that share a corp hanger. When exchanging items in the hangar itself, things transition rather nicely, meaning, within a second or two, I can see all three clients show the item change in the hangar. However, if I go and toss items in and out of a GSC or a station container, that time for update can extend to anywhere from 5 to 10 seconds. I can't blame lag because after I get an update and put another item in the corp hangar, the updates happen quick. Minor delay, just a bit annoying when in one level it works as expected, and another, takes it a while to go through. However, when moving items back and forth between characters or, even just with one character doing some item management, it becomes a boon to the 'twiddling your thumb" industry.

EDIT: I should also note that when throwing stuff into the GSC/Station Container, even if its just the one account logged in, I see the time delay. I "feel" that it is specific to the way the server handles the containers vs the hangars themselves.
Xander Hunt
#191 - 2012-01-19 04:35:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Xander Hunt
PvE
One of two things I'd like to see:

#1:
When a wreck is made, or when a ship enters the grid, stream information to the client about what the contents of the wrecks are even before anyone starts tractoring them in. I get the sense that the server already knows what the contents of that wreck or container is, so why not let the client in on the secret immediately? Just as an example of other currently existing functionality the client already gives in a similar regard, when anyone goes into Jita, the client is getting details about 1200+ other toons in the system, as well as it handles spamscams local chats, as well as get any kind of new details about the system, specifically who's coming and going, and who's on grid, etc. I can't think of a single mission that comes CLOSE to having 100 wrecks. Now one might think that sending this kind of information is extraneous, and that not everyone on grid is going to want this information as they don't care to know whats in the wreck, but let me remind you of three things.... Jita... 1,000 player fleet fights and each players fuel propelled ammo... and ignoring incursion fleets, anyone running a regular mission who cares about loot, typically is going have to at most 5 toons at once to be worth while. Giving the client details about the contents of less than 100 wrecks ONCE when coming onto grid can't be more grooling on the server hardware or bandwidth utilization than even a 100 player fight which gets details streamed continuously to ALL toons on grid.

The "LOOT ALL" button is indeed a welcome addition as my CTRL-A button was getting worn down, but hammering on my left mouse button hundreds to thousands of times in a good solid run of missioning to open up all the wrecks for my Noctis to absorb to even GET to that "LOOT ALL" button is seriously, SERIOUSLY annoying. Not to mention the more containers you open up, the longer it seems to take to GET the list of items in a container (Which would get fixed by implementing the above) Its getting to the point where I just want to start just blitzing and forgetting about the wrecks instead of enjoying the THUD of hearing my guns go off. The addition of "LOOT ALL" is great, but, pending addition of the paragraph above, and adding a button to "open up all local containers and wrecks" or a "loot all local containers and wrecks" to have all the containers and wrecks load right into the Noctis would be TREMENDOUSLY time efficient for me. I promise I won't invoice a new mouse to CCP if this happens. ;)

#2: If #1 is too much to implement, or the thought of reimbursing thousands of gaming mice is just way over kill;
Allow a buff to the Noctis and grant room for 5 large drones and enough bandwidth to suit, and introduce a LOOT DRONE that will specifically go get the contents of the nearest "legally obtainable" corp/fleet owned container or wreck and bring it back to the ships cargo hold. Even if the "LOOT DRONE" is only allowed to be used on the Noctis, personally, I'd be OK with that. Mining drones exist, and perform this very same function on asteroids, and I *THINK* I saw salvage drones in the database dump once upon a time. The LOOT DRONE would instead have a meager 50m3 (Or whatever the largest single lootable item is) of room to haul stuff (or a limit the number of items that can be carried, regardless of volume), and have to travel back and forth. The drone would find the nearest wreck not being looked at by any other drone, spend a few seconds getting into the wreck, then haul it back to the ship, put it into the container, wait a few seconds (To emulate the transfer time) and then go off and find the next wreck. I thought about "TRACTOR DRONES" but that wouldn't eliminate the left button mouse mashing problem.

To those that are wondering why a "feature buff" should be considered as a "performance buff" the reasoning is simple and I admit, not really much of a computer performance buff but a user experience buff. If you take into consideration that the drone is going to have to open the container and then figure what it can take, then haul the item back to the ship, it isn't going to be anymore work load on on the client or the server, ignoring image rendering and server tracking of drones. The server has to inform the drone that a particular item exists in the selected container, which is no different than my having to open the container anyways. If the details are cached like in the first paragraph above, the drone would only have to report to the server "I took this item from this wreck - update the client and your database while I mosey back". However, the player would be oblivious to the work being done by the drones, just the same as a player is oblivious to mining drones hauling minerals back. The drones wouldn't have to travel far, since the Noctis can bring stuff in from 90km away (YAY TRACTOR BEAM II), and the drones would go to the closest wreck/container automagically. I don't know how that would fall with the team that does game play balancing, but, I find it really difficult to believe that a few drones are going to shift game play enough to really warrant more than a raised eye brow.
Xander Hunt
#192 - 2012-01-19 04:35:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Xander Hunt
Corp Management
One comment was already made about managing the toons in a corp, and taking time to update the status of the corp list. Couple suggestions to improve speed and less hammering on your servers.

First;
TL;DR: Client side caches the corp list and security access levels and retrieves data only if timestamps are different between client and server.

On the server side of things, introduce a new single field to whatever database table you use that stores corp details that is a datetime stamp that contains the last time ANY change to the corp member list has happened, security changes have occurred, or whatever. Basically, you'd be adding 4 bytes (I think datetime for MSSql is 32-of data for a datetime or timestamp field) - (Plus a few for database overhead), times the number of corps in EVE to your overall database size. Since the transition to 64-bit, I sense that storage space wouldn't be THAT significant. ;) This field would change when ANYTHING that impacts ANY toon currently within the corp, entering the corp, or leaving the corp. When a client goes and looks for the corp member list, it first internally checks to see if it has ever pulled the member list. If it hasn't, the client makes a request for all members just as it does right now, and stores that data in a local cache and remembers the time it checked (Based on what the server time is, NOT client time). If the client has queried for the member list before, it goes and checks the time stamp on the server for the last modification and compares it when it last checked. If the times match, it just skips downloading the list of players and assumes that nothing has changed member wise. If the times don't match, then it goes and pulls the full list of members again, and updates the time locally. This is going to save a LOT of time both for me, and your server. You could then even default the list of members to edit from the default of 10 members, to .. well.. hell, you could ELIMINATE the count entirely since MOST times when the CEO or Director wants to make changes to the member list, the member to be edited ISN'T on the list to begin with! In a corp of 40 members, I have to switch the filter from 10 to 50 anyways. Why?!?!


Second;
Albeit a bit of a "UI enhancement" more than "performance enhancement", trim the field headings out as far as title headings go when working with the corp hangar divisions. It isn't necessary to have "QUERY" and "TAKE" for all 7 divisions shown. Q/T or R/F (Read-only/Full Access) I think would be sufficient. This won't change the database infrastructure, so little to no work would be needed there. On smaller screen (Like I have at work) I can't always see the last division, and can't make changes due to no scroll bar being present to scroll left or right. ... hmm.. Come to think of it, are there *ANY* scroll bars that go left or right in EVE???
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#193 - 2012-01-19 06:21:32 UTC
More of a question really to the devs, just how scalable is the client and would it be possible on the client side to choose what you the player want the client to prioritize loading from the server?

If you are in a fleet, do you really need that fleet appear on your screen when you basically just play by the overview after what the fc wants you to target?

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#194 - 2012-01-19 06:30:35 UTC
Can we broaden your performance to include UX performance? Can we include things like clone jumping? You can make the whole process faster by leaving my ship for me, pausing my currently training skill, and then resuming my skill.
TripHammer
Endless Corporation
#195 - 2012-01-19 06:43:48 UTC
Regat Kozovv wrote:
The drone window disappears and reappears when drones are deployed, and introduces a few seconds of lag when it does.


While your in this code, keeping the expanded and unexpanded grouping the same would be great, I have the in bay closed and in space expanded, but every time a drone is deployed both lists contract.
TripHammer
Endless Corporation
#196 - 2012-01-19 06:58:58 UTC
Not really performance more of a little UI bug

Sometimes I want to rearrange fitted items if I have say 5 slots, 3 turret slots and 2 launcher slots, 3 turrets fitted and no launchers, I try to move a turret from one slot to another free slot, it fails, with the "no free slot" message, as if its not dropped the turret i'm moving from it's fitted count.
Captain Sucky
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#197 - 2012-01-19 07:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Captain Sucky
Edit: wrong thread
nawor100
Cargo Sunesis Cult
S.N.O.T.
#198 - 2012-01-19 08:07:30 UTC
Alx Warlord wrote:
nawor100 wrote:

IE one player has one account and so pays subscription fee. Another player has one account payed by subscription and has 3 Alts payed by PLEX he earns in game. So to me both players have one account benefiting CCP as a company.

CCP might have people working for free but i bet there are overheads to pay


You are totaly wrong! Both acounts finiancially benefit CCP! Since someone is paying for the PLEX... We dont have to explain this theory here do we? Just think about it, If Plex do not benifits ccp why do they have it?




I always Knew somebody would take my words out of context. CCP arent here to make you happy they are here to make money. So if you wanted to help CCP then you would buy PLEX with ur credit card and wouldnt go buy some in the market.


Bent Barrel
#199 - 2012-01-19 08:28:46 UTC
mkint wrote:
When undocking, I can often issue and execute commands before the scene even loads.

On the stupid animated login screen, I can usually get my password punched in, and have half the game loaded before the stupid 3D animated screen has loaded. At all.

edit: has anyone mentioned brackets yet? Seriously, what's up with brackets? Why are they so bad that fleets have to shut them off in PVP? Why can the client render high detailed 3D scenes easily, while it handles 2D objects like it's 1980

double edit (after 15 likes): how come when you warp to a grid, it waits until you're on grid to start downloading information about that grid, instead of pre-loading it mid-warp? It's not like the game doesn't know where you will land.


same when docking ... I managed to RENT a corporation office while typing into chat during the hangar loading screen/session change.

one thing I want it for the drones window to NOT disappear while I am launching drones .....
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#200 - 2012-01-19 08:41:24 UTC
In a country far far away a long time ago CCP talked about developing a client with tabs, just like any modern web browser but each tab being one logged in character. The supposed benefit would be more shared resources between each loaded client.

How to win EVE