These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

CSM Minutes on Faction Warfare

Author
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#401 - 2012-01-28 00:10:01 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Bad Messenger wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
[quote=BolsterBomb]
I support this message, one thing we may want to fight off (depending on the community) is to prevent alliances (get rid of their patch for it) If we let 0.0 alliances in FW as we know it will go away.
/quote]

Well, "they're here" whether we like it or not, the patch is live, and as far as I know FW still exists. I haven't heard of an Alliance yet that has signed up, or an Alliance formed from within Faction Warfare corps.

Does anyone have any field reports as to any Alliances that have applied and enlisted yet?


why should they?


There really isnt a lot of good reasons. that was my point. Any of the alliances that wanted to kill FW pilots have already come and done so, and anyone wanting mission access can just use an alt.


The "floodgates" have opened and not a drop has flowed forthBlink
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#402 - 2012-01-28 07:34:23 UTC
Super Chair wrote:
The "floodgates" have opened and not a drop has flowed forthBlink

They will, the carebear is too dominant in their genes for them to ignore a pristine field such as ours to frolic in. The delay is probably due to needing to grind a bit of standings and/or shuffle corps around to meet minimum .. if alliance standings are like corp ditto then the average is only calculated once or twice per week.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#403 - 2012-01-28 11:14:35 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Super Chair wrote:
The "floodgates" have opened and not a drop has flowed forthBlink

They will, the carebear is too dominant in their genes for them to ignore a pristine field such as ours to frolic in. ...



Pristine fields? It's more like a squashed cabbage leaf. I really don't think fw missions are that great. Those farming them seem to put very little value on their time, often selling items for under 1000 isk per lp. Now with faction frigates being fairly useless its only to get worse.


I am surprised star fraction and electus matari haven't joined. I would think they have the standings.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#404 - 2012-01-28 11:56:11 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Pristine fields? It's more like a squashed cabbage leaf....

HEY! Don't knock the cabbage! Smile

All things are relative, judging by the constant high pitched whine emanating from null over their sanctums/belts/plexes/etc. I bet a squashed cabbage leaf looks even better than a pristine field their starving flocks of sheep.
As for missions not being good, you get a large ISK payout for minimal work, the LP is has been reduced to gravy now though. If they were as bad as you suggest then the bomber swarm would not continue to grow as it does now 6+ months after the market bottomed out.

Doubt many alliances have standings ready to go without shuffling some corps/characters. The delay is to be expected.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#405 - 2012-01-28 19:41:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Hirana Yoshida wrote:


Doubt many alliances have standings ready to go without shuffling some corps/characters. The delay is to be expected.


I think the question to ask though is "are the mission incomes worth being locked out of half of highsec?"

If I were a large nullsec alliance, with moon goo, supercap production, and other large sources of income, I think it would be far easier and less restrictive to simple encourage all those who want to farm TLF missions to buy their own alt toons. A bomber-capable mission runner is only a few million skillpoints in the end.

I suspect this is already the case, and that the alt-farmers watering down the market are already the Alliances alts wanting to take isk from the Faction Warfare front and sent it elsewhere.

Faction Warfare has been around for 3 years, and while in the past this was a big concern, I think many of us are thinking about this and realizing that if they wanted to kill us, they already have, and if they wanted to farm missions, they're already here.

Thats just my take, its speculatory, and subject to change barring new developments.


EDIT: Also, while extremely easy - there is one other thing to consider. Bombing TLF missions cannot be botted - there is too much manual piloting involved to stay alive. If I lived in nullsec, and wanted to farm isk, I would be far more tempted to throw a couple bots out to the fields to supplement my income since no one's watching it that closely anyways.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#406 - 2012-01-29 02:02:02 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:

All things are relative, judging by the constant high pitched whine emanating from null over their sanctums/belts/plexes/etc. I bet a squashed cabbage leaf looks even better than a pristine field their starving flocks of sheep.


The whines mostly come from utterly worthless regions like Provi, Catch, etc. in decent regions like Trib, Dek, Fountain, etc. you're looking at 120-150m isk/h in raw isk payout (assuming you're decent and skilled for dualboxing). If time is money, so is effort; meaning that dudes like being able to ignore **** like LP and tags. And if you can spare :effort: to get spacemoney, might as well live in the Drone Regions where you gunmine high-end minerals 23/7 for a similar level of risk as lowsec.


Shaalira D'arc
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#407 - 2012-01-29 08:17:08 UTC
Mfume Apocal wrote:
Hirana Yoshida wrote:

All things are relative, judging by the constant high pitched whine emanating from null over their sanctums/belts/plexes/etc. I bet a squashed cabbage leaf looks even better than a pristine field their starving flocks of sheep.


The whines mostly come from utterly worthless regions like Provi, Catch, etc. in decent regions like Trib, Dek, Fountain, etc. you're looking at 120-150m isk/h in raw isk payout (assuming you're decent and skilled for dualboxing). If time is money, so is effort; meaning that dudes like being able to ignore **** like LP and tags. And if you can spare :effort: to get spacemoney, might as well live in the Drone Regions where you gunmine high-end minerals 23/7 for a similar level of risk as lowsec.




That's actually not as much as I expected, and it certainly makes low-sec faction missions (FW or pirate) seem quite competitive by comparison.

There's some who would argue that farming the Drone Regions is actually less risk than various low-sec activities, but that's another discussion entirely.
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
#408 - 2012-01-29 09:41:12 UTC
Even the good regions have a finite number of sites where that kind of income is possible and as far as I know the population far exceeds what is available .. that is why I have postulated that FW will be used as an overflow camp for null slaves/sheep/monkeys/parrots.

What happened to CCP's plans to shift drone regions partially/wholly towards bounties instead of alloys, were they scrapped or are they waiting until they figure out how to make mining less of a danger to mental health?
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#409 - 2012-01-29 14:01:21 UTC
FW missions certainly are not afk operations, unlike some features elsewhere in Eve.
Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#410 - 2012-01-29 18:59:07 UTC
Hirana Yoshida wrote:
Even the good regions have a finite number of sites where that kind of income is possible and as far as I know the population far exceeds what is available .. that is why I have postulated that FW will be used as an overflow camp for null slaves/sheep/monkeys/parrots.


A lot of good regions are partially or completed abandoned right now, Delve in particular.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#411 - 2012-01-29 23:50:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Rel'k Bloodlor
Their's some thing I want to ask.
Dose any one have "fluff" and "lore" problems with the way things are in FW?

Like that pie factions can make a harder and more complex (lol complex complexes) "space house" than our navy's?
That this demi-god fueled cold has never escalated? No "big event" beyond the first.
That our interactions with our own navy's are entirely one dimensional. We take there missions and defend there stuff they pay us.
What is our relationship to our empires? Like am I in an alliance with them and in an alliance with player corps? Alliance that's in an alliance with an empire?
Were killing millions of people(empire citizens) Right buy there empires, some times in there empires,and nothing or no one has any reaction to it beyond you can't be here our empire's are at war-ish.
Tons of back story between the Pirate groups and empires navy's, and no involvement in all this time, I'm looking at you Korako Kosakami, AKA "The Rabbit".

Or is every thing still about isk and game mechanics?

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 

Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#412 - 2012-01-30 05:03:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
Their's some thing I want to ask.
Dose any one have "fluff" and "lore" problems with the way things are in FW?

Like that pie factions can make a harder and more complex (lol complex complexes) "space house" than our navy's?
That this demi-god fueled cold has never escalated? No "big event" beyond the first.
That our interactions with our own navy's are entirely one dimensional. We take there missions and defend there stuff they pay us.
What is our relationship to our empires? Like am I in an alliance with them and in an alliance with player corps? Alliance that's in an alliance with an empire?
Were killing millions of people(empire citizens) Right buy there empires, some times in there empires,and nothing or no one has any reaction to it beyond you can't be here our empire's are at war-ish.
Tons of back story between the Pirate groups and empires navy's, and no involvement in all this time, I'm looking at you Korako Kosakami, AKA "The Rabbit".

Or is every thing still about isk and game mechanics?


I absolutely think a lore update is sorely needed, especially if anything major is tweaked to the game mechanics. CCP Dropbear is an expert in creating compelling Live Event content (as well as authoring Lore articles) and I think he could probably create some amazing ways to transition into new a new age of renewed Faction Warfare.

But no stories, no fanfare - not till the core mechanics are fixed. They should supplement the mechanical updates, not supercede them. This was my major objection to Alliances being allowed in now rather than later. While I predicted that we likely wouldn't seen any major changes (and there hasn't been) I don't like the fact that CCP seems willing to try to expand the participation numbers and expand the warzone without actually making plexing and Faction Warfare more meaningful and PvP-oriented to being with.

EDIT: Also - regarding piracy - I think that in the long-term, once the core FW system is iterated on in an fashion that pleases the community and revives activity to its original levels, it needs to be expanded to include the pirate factions. Angel or Guristas sympathizers should be able occupy pockets of lowsec, and pirate plexes already exist so I see no reason why those can't be made PvP as well. Faction Warfare doesnt have to be limited to Empire Factions, pirate role players deserve a chance to be a part of the scene as well. Pirate PvP corps have traditionally been an enemy of the militia factions, so it could be interesting to create war fronts there.

Its a shame that the only place to do pirate content is in 0.0 space, when lowsec has always been where the majority of actual pirates reside.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#413 - 2012-01-30 07:08:54 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Its a shame that the only place to do pirate content is in 0.0 space, when lowsec has always been where the majority of actual pirates reside.


The actual day-to-day things that "pirates" do in lowsec are also done by NPC null roaming/small gang groups; they just don't call it "piracy". It's just PvP.
Shaalira D'arc
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#414 - 2012-01-30 17:16:26 UTC
Null roaming gangs are usually after fights and killmails. This actually differs a lot from some low-sec pirate groups, who often make a living from ransoms and looted mods.

I've never seen a nullsec roaming group ransom a ship. Meanwhile, the Tuskers go so far as to maintain a ransom board.

So yes, they are actually engaging in piracy.
Garr Earthbender
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#415 - 2012-01-30 19:01:42 UTC
I feel jipped. I've not been offered a ransom for my ships.....

-Scissors is overpowered, rock is fine. -Paper

Mfume Apocal
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#416 - 2012-01-31 02:13:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Mfume Apocal
Shaalira D'arc wrote:
I've never seen a nullsec roaming group ransom a ship.


It happens. More rarely than in lowsec, but some guys do it, usually with the Sabre+Falcon combo. I had a corpmate who cleared about 3-6B a month in ransoms just with Hound, Sabre and Falcon.
Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#417 - 2012-01-31 13:05:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Rel'k Bloodlor
I really hope they don't jump the gun and run in more changes that are meant for larger groups, as the CSM note hint to. As our reaction has shown to be negative towards them.
I would rather see smaller changes for a smaller scale part of the game, Hell most of the time FW pilots use the word "blob" to describe a fleet over 15 pilots!
Some small fixes to plexing, missioning, and territory control would go a long way.




P.S. also FW lower tier faction frigate, a demi-god can dream.....

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 

Rel'k Bloodlor
Federation Front Line Report
Federation Front Line
#418 - 2012-02-09 10:18:18 UTC
I hear tell of a more recent interview about FW. Is that true and if so dose any one have a link?

I wanted to paint my space ship red, but I couldn't find enough goats. 

X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#419 - 2012-02-09 16:52:53 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
Looks like the first RP alliance is in FW - Electus Matari. No 0.0 sov blocks yet.
Andiedeath
We Aim To MisBehave
Wild Geese.
#420 - 2012-02-18 07:13:19 UTC
Rel'k Bloodlor wrote:
I really hope they don't jump the gun and run in more changes that are meant for larger groups, as the CSM note hint to. As our reaction has shown to be negative towards them.
I would rather see smaller changes for a smaller scale part of the game, Hell most of the time FW pilots use the word "blob" to describe a fleet over 15 pilots!
Some small fixes to plexing, missioning, and territory control would go a long way.




P.S. also FW lower tier faction frigate, a demi-god can dream.....


Personally I think there are a few things I would like to see...

1. Rewards other than VP for Plexing. Maybe the value of the equivalent FW mission level in LP spread across those in the plex
when it Flips. I.E. a major plex is worth 25-30k in and that spread across the group active in the plex at the same time. Defenders and offenders would earn LP.

Advantages - The biggest complaint currently I see for new people joining FW is that hey don't have income to support the replacement of ships. Rewards for plexes would help with this.

I'm sure there are disadvantages although happy to discuss here.

2. Making FW missions contribute to the capture of the system. In the scheme of things I would think killing a field commander should weaken a system. I also then think missions should be specific for whether the system is being defended or attacked and will be determined by the current occupier. So yes that means in theory missions for Minmatar could spawn in Minmatar territory that is currently contested.

Director

Sefem Velox

INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public