Warfare & Tactics

I guess the question I would ask is do we want Dust 514 to be a big effect on FW or if it will just be about planets (not directly related to our sov) Do we want to be the test bed or whatever for the Dust Eve Connection.

I personally don't want that. I would rather see small fixes and a rewards system for plexs and capturing systems but not to be a test bed for the New Sov System. I personally think that CCP currently things this is a good idea. And since we don't really have anyone on the CSM that is there to protect and enhance our aspect of the game. No one is really being able to stand up to CCP and say No and present them with something better for FW.

So you want to remove FW missions totally? Now tell me how FW players are supposed to make isk then?

oh, then i would be even richer than now. Hans will be mad about it.

Hahahaahah. See, I'm not really mad about your isk, I don't really care how wealthy anyone is in the game, in the end. If you had read any of my posts, you'd know that.

If I'm frustrated with anything, its the fact that you keep posting about the isk. This isn't a thread about how to farm FW missions. I start to lose patience with anyone who sticks to the same subject, and only posts about one thing. You have consistently only surfaced in FW threads to defend isk incomes, than you pretend you're not there for the isk, and call others greedy, and than you say stuff like this ^^ that just proves my point anyways.

I've been critical of others who bring all FW discussions back to the same topic within the feature. And yes, I'm taking about Cearain, just so no one thinks I'm being passive aggressive. I like Cearain, and I appreciate his tenacity in sticking up for FW and he's offered some good ideas on how to improve it as well. I just don't have any problem pointing out that whether he realizes it or not, he has a tendency to bring all discussions back down to NPC's in plexing, even if they start elsewhere.

You, on the other hand, are NOT bringing anything constructive to the conversation, nor do you stick to the topic of the threads you post in. You also either don't read people's posts carefully, or you do and deliberately choose to use straw man arguments to try to derail ideas. Like the last one, asking if I wanted to remove FW missions - despite the fact that I've never proposed that idea, not once, not anywhere in the entire forum. I will give you the benefit of the doubt for now because I'm hoping its just a language barrier issue that causes you to completely misunderstand every post someone makes.

I'm all for free speech, but you abuse the privilege by wasting time and space in FW threads by repeating yourself over and over again unnecessarily. We all know you by now, and why you are here.

What is wrong with people farming missions?

it happens in every other sec, you say farming like its a bad thing.............

Carebears will still avoid pvp is they are in FW just to make isk. If you removed missions, they would orbit plexes as proposed. Then, say they've been running a medium plex for ten minutes, you arrive and ofc they warp away. You now have to spend 30 minutes closing said plex while they open new medium one elsewhere and begin to run it, taking them 20 minutes. See the problem here? LP farmers will always avoid pvp to maximize efficiency. Now blackrise has resources beyond just FW missions, there's PI and moons, and DED plexes. DED plexes are so valuable in blackrise with the newly introduced deadspace invul fields that are selling for 1-2 bil each. These sites were profitable before crucible 1.1 and every time you see a russian in blackrise, they're likely scouring for one of these sites. If you are forced out of these sites, there isn't going to be an abundant source of them elsewhere (whereas FW missions and plexes are beyond number). You have to fight for these resources.






Now there's the whole meaningful occupancy thing. If there were rewards for holding/taking occupancy that are separate (ie better) than just grinding LP in missions, then its possible that the gallente will have something to blob. Under current system there is no reason to fight out numbered. There is no reason to think inovatively to punch above your weight class to hold systems. It is easier to just welp it and go home.

Also, just to chime in to the above comment. FW missions have been devaluing and will continue to devalue. 200 million isk navy geddons? Caldari are lucky their navy scorpions haven't dropped that far yet.

First off, just because it happens in every other sec doesn't mean it's good: For example, see the outcry over making FW like null.

Secondly - to efficiently farm missions you're generally pve fit (unless you're running minmatar missions against amarr rats in a missile boat). This means less pvp, and makes missions boring: Due to the mission mechanic, it's not like you can steal someones mission or get any profit from driving them away.

However, plexes are something you can fight over. The focus is on holding your ground for a set amount of time, giving your opponent a chance to come and get you. They are more pvp focused than missions (and could be even moreso if they fix the NPC imbalance). if you give rewards for plexing, then people can spend less time missioning and more time plexing, which has a greater likelihood of generating fights. If you remove missions and give similar rewards for plexing, you force ISK making into a more pvp focused activity, and that leads to greater fun for all. Yes, you will still have people who will try and run these plexes in pure pve fits. However, pvpers can better interrupt their activity, and they can also get rewarded for doing so (as nicely listed by Shaalira in points a), b) and c).

All the arguments against FW missions can be made against FW plexes. Put the ability to fail a mission, and they all go away.

FW mission fights are just as fun as FW plexes, but different. Quicker pace, less chance to reship, etc

Edit: NPC imbalance haspretty much been addressed by CCP.

Edit2: The difference between my view of FW missions and chatgris' view is that when FW missions really were OP (you could choose the system you were missioning in), I was having the time of my life fighting More Cowbell guys missioning in Vlill with my tristan while everybody else was busy making bazillions of isk. Fights in FW missions are a blast.

Lets remove all forms of isk making from lowsec so all militias can fight with noobships.