Warfare & Tactics

I can speak on this topic - since I remember those conversations.

First off, I'm hoping you're not taking from our discussions about Incursions that militia pilots want more PvE content...
The attractive thing about the Incursion feature that had potential for Faction Warfare were two-fold:

First, the system wide effects and the push / pull red / blue bar could potentially be used to represent the opposing faction's influence on a given territory. These system-wide effects could potentially add some incentive to fight frequently for system occupancy - increasing the number of PvP fights to be found throughout the region on a daily basis.

The other appealing element to Incursion that could relate to Faction Warfare is the scaled rewards - the fact that LP payouts could by applied to current FW plexes, with rewards scaled to participation numbers. This would encourage a "sweet spot" for plex running, and discourage large blobs, since excessive fleet size would reduce rewards. The end result would be economic incentive to running plexes often and in small groups - increasing the number of PvP fights to be found throughout the region on a daily basis.

Both of these possible integrations of Incursion mechanics into Faction Warfare bring with them a whole host of other balancing problems, as will no doubt be pointed out here shortly just because I've brought them up again. I hope you can see the real underlying principle though - no matter what we each propose as a fix to Faction Warfare, the goal has always been the same: creating a haven for small fleet, easy to find, frequent PvP.

Your average FW wants just enough added or altered to the feature to dramatically increase the amount of regular fights that occur, without adding PvE that could turn it into cash cow, and without adding so much consequence to system ownership that it becomes a mirror of nullsec in the process.

I continue to maintain that we are unified as a community as to what we all want out of Faction Warfare - even if we disagree with the best way to fix it.

Well, I'd like faction warfare to provide a mechanism enabling the overthrow of the Amarr Empire and liberate the enslaved Minmatar rather than pussying around in losec having gentleman's games with the slavers. Bring back the Elder Armada!

However, given that FW is a CONCORD means to contain the conflict I don't hold out too high a hope. So, as a second best, I'm basically on the side of those who want more effect to system occupancy.

Is this not one of the main issues?

Are faction warfare missions part of the problem? Many of us need PVE content to fund PVP (yes I admit to being rubbish at EVE); we need PVE content to enable us to run other PVE content (Plexes) that may lead to PVP.

Also due to work, family etc, I have to fit EVE into half hour, hour long blocks if no PVP is likely then I need something else to do, If there were no NPC's in plexes then I cannot afford to spend periods orbiting timers for no real gain. Perhaps Cerains broadcast system would make it more likely a fight would develop but even this is dependent on activity and time zone.

If there was a way to absorb the objective based style of missions and level of rewards into the plexing then this would perhaps be better for me. Thing is this would need to be balanced carefully as I really want to run this content in PVP fits and in effect want to switch the NPC’s off where PVP opportunities develop.

Not saying I have an answer, I just feel there needs to a balance between PVE and PVP content that some of us more casual players can pick up and can ideally switch between the two. Maybe this is the Holy Grail of EVE and just not achievable.



If they go ahead with the Leadership idea then I would say this would be needed more than ever, the only way I see to stop it’s exploitation would be to assign a Dev to Role-play the Faction Governments and prevent a Leadership that is not working in the best interests of the Militia. If anything a Leadership could act as a slightly more organised point of contact for Live events.

You just haven't read enough.

The complaints range from the ability to cap an offensive plex without firing a shot, to the desire to remove all npc's from plexes, to making them more difficult and complex so they are more engaging.

It is encouraging you are actually plexing for the in-game objective. Very, very few have done over the long haul and they can project a disproportionate amount of power over the map. Well, that's if you consider occupancy name changes "power".

We want a pvp feature that leads to frequent quality small scale pvp fights.

Null sec with its long timers allow everyone to blob up and fight. Very little can be accomplished in a short time in a small gang. And that makes sense for null sec where people can lose everything. They should have time to form up large fleets to defend and attack.


But for fw, the stakes aren't so big so we can have small gang pvp make a small but significant differences. CCP should take advantage of these differences not try to make them the same.


Null sec alliances can decide if they want to be at peace or at war. We are always at war. We can't choose to blue up all our neighbors. This should mean we are constantly called to pvp.

A large part of the people who wouldn't plex would not do so because the game was rigged in favor of whoever had a numerical advantage just after down time. I remember because I was one of the ones trying to help the plex effort a year or two ago. The NPCs in plexes are tolerable, and though they can be a pain in the ass, it was just something you had to plan around.

The proof is in the pudding, and now that plex respawns have been changed plexing in the Gallente-Caldari warzone is at an all time high. You'll see people on the intel channels, who once actively discouraged people from plexing, coming to help and chasing squids out. After all, while it would give a lot more incentive for more to participate, lots of people will turn up to shoot a bunker if it goes vulnerable. People care but for so long the deck was stacked against them because all their work could be undone in the hour or two after down time.

As for FW missions, they really don't contribute anything to FW. FW is supposed to be a place that facilitates and encourages PVP, but FW missions do neither of those things. Rewards should be tied to plexing and killing enemy militia ships, not running around in your stealth bomber shooting NPCs and farming LP so you can undercut the market for people who actually need the isk to support staggering ship losses.

Nothing wrong with me agreeing with the ideas. Trolls or no trolls, I still like to express my ideas. Thanks for your respect.

I agree the after downtime mechanic was a large barrier to plexxing that was overcome. There were other problems like the cloaking bug and horribly imbalanced npcs. Fixing these obvious problems however, didn't "fix plexing." It still needs some work.

IMO plexxing still needs adjusting before being great at occupancy plexxing will have any *merit*. I know very well how I could capture allot of plexes and it only involves running pve ships. That is what I would do if I really wanted to win at plexxing.

The problem is not that you can never get fights in plexes. You can. In fact plexes are one of the best ways to get pvp fights - if you want them. The problem is plexes can still be easilly run in droves without any pvp. As long as the occupancy war can be fought without any pvp it will be scoffed at, not only by eve players in general, but even by the fw community.


I agree that the rats are easy to plan around. Just fly the right ships and fittings and you will likely be able to run all (or close to all) the plexes in a frigate sized ship. Warp out if an enemy player happens somehow to stumble on you, and you will be able to plex like a champ.

Plexing at an all time high now? Well there may be more plexxes captured now because they are spawning like never before. But I tend to doubt as many people are dedicated to plexing as there were when FW first came out. But I don't have the data so you may be right. If you are then great. Let's see what happens if people really start to care about it like they did when fw first came out.

I predict that if the mechanic is not changed then winning occupancy will have almost *nothing* to do with who has the better pvpers. Most occupancy plexes will continue to be captured without any pvp at all.

The winning side will just be the side that has more people willing to spend longer hours grinding away. If they start to pay rewards for plexing then people will just farm it like any other form of pve. If people are happy with that then fine, but I think it could be allot better.

As far as missions and rewards
I remember one of the devs was talking on a warpdrive active (may have been drone bay) podcast when fw was about to come out. They asked him what rewards people got for winning occupancy and there was sort of an awkward silence.

It seemed clear from what he said that he thought occupancy was the ultimate point of fw. You would get isk from missions so you could buy ships and go fight in plexes. It was not thought that you would win the occupancy war so you would get isk. (that was backward thinking) Sure lots of people see their isk wallet as the ultimate determiner of success in eve. That was pretty clearly not the crowd fw was aimed at.

Personally I like that. I want to get isk so that I can throw it in the war effort to gain occupancy. I want to feel my militia and I have accomplished something significant if we make gains in occupancy. The plexing mechanic is improving but it's not there yet. Its still just allot of grinding and not worthy of my time. Even if there are more people doing plexing than ever before the vast majority of eve players and even fw players (85% accordign to the last poll) still would agree with my last sentiment. Plexs are just tools to get a fight. Plexxing on its own has very little merit.

Wow. Out of all the ideas I can think of to improve low sec "Involve alliances in FW" and "introduce sov" are the two worst ones imaginable.

I'm in low sec because I test alliance drama and idiocy and I can't stand the sov system.