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Nerfing Caldari?

First post
Author
Talia Nachtigall
State War Academy
Caldari State
#61 - 2012-01-18 02:42:39 UTC
The Drake is NOT over-powered. I see them die to Hurricanes every day! Now the Hurricane... that ships needs to be balanced. Arty Shield Cane is OP!

Don't pray for my soul. ;)

Julyan Fox
The crossroad Co.
#62 - 2012-01-18 03:12:00 UTC
Funny how you always hear "If I join a PVP fleet and see mostly drakes I just go do smth else", drakes = noob pvp ship etc etc, and now they are overpowered and require a rebalance?

It seemed pretty clear, strong shield, low dps, low cost, so the guys that don't make billions a week can still afford a decent pvp throwaway missile ship. Take away the warfare link cpu bonus for what I care. Just don t be stupid and ruin the pve viability of the drake for new pilots.
Sara XIII
The Carnifex Corp
#63 - 2012-01-18 03:14:51 UTC
Julyan Fox wrote:
Funny how you always hear "If I join a PVP fleet and see mostly drakes I just go do smth else", drakes = noob pvp ship etc etc, and now they are overpowered and require a rebalance?


Haha, well said! Blink
Between Ignorance and Wisdom
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#64 - 2012-01-18 03:18:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ocih
Ocih wrote:
If I could survive the Artillery wall 50 km behind it, my Harbi would melt a Drake.


Test server:

2012.01.18 03:07:00

Victim: Ioci
Corp: Space Mermaids
Alliance: Bad Girl Posse
Faction: Unknown
Destroyed: Drake
System: X-R3NM
Security: 0.0
Damage Taken: 30471

Involved parties:

Name: Ocih (laid the final blow)
Security: -0.10
Corp: Space Mermaids
Alliance: Bad Girl Posse
Faction: None
Ship: Harbinger
Weapon: Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I
Damage Done: 30471

AB Harbi, triple trimark Buffer tank with 2 adaptives, no kin stack, no armor rep, I was at 13% armor when the drake popped.

Full passive Drake with a rack of Arbalest launchers and Kin missles.

--

Had it been a Cane I would have never hit it. They dictate optimal no matter how I fit.
Il Feytid
State War Academy
Caldari State
#65 - 2012-01-18 03:28:43 UTC
Caldari has the 14 inch penis.
Endeavour Starfleet
#66 - 2012-01-18 03:54:23 UTC
Ocih wrote:
If I could survive the Artillery wall 50 km behind it, my Harbi would melt a Drake.


This....

Drakes have to plug an EM hole the size of New York, Are VERY skill intensive to use right, And require alpha support to keep enemies off of them.

For newer players this is the time of their EVE life. And then they can use their PVE drake to make funds to go out again.

The drake is by FAR one of the best balanced ships in the game. DON'T CHANGE IT!
Hoskoal Ricks
#67 - 2012-01-18 04:21:42 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Caldari has the 14 inch *****.


CCP, my railrox!
Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
#68 - 2012-01-18 04:58:33 UTC
Julyan Fox wrote:
Funny how you always hear "If I join a PVP fleet and see mostly drakes I just go do smth else", drakes = noob pvp ship etc etc, and now they are overpowered and require a rebalance?

It seemed pretty clear, strong shield, low dps, low cost, so the guys that don't make billions a week can still afford a decent pvp throwaway missile ship. Take away the warfare link cpu bonus for what I care. Just don t be stupid and ruin the pve viability of the drake for new pilots.


I was about to type a few sentences, when I read this post. It 100% sums-up what I wanted to write.
I would like to re-quote the very last sentence, with an addition :- "For the sake of players new to EvE, Just don't be stupid and ruin the pve viability of the Drake for new pilots."

o/
Hoskoal Ricks
#69 - 2012-01-18 05:05:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Hoskoal Ricks
Thorn Galen wrote:

I would like to re-quote the very last sentence, with an addition :- "For the sake of players new to EvE, Just don't be stupid and ruin the pve viability of the Drake for new pilots."

o/


Actually, that is the best possible outcome. More new players not being suckered into the broken caldari/missile combo right out of the gate is a win/win situation. The newbs get into better ships eventually, even though admittedly the drake is about the best you can do with extremely low sp, and in the mean time they learn the skills necessary to make the superior weapon systems (turrets) shine.

Eventually the caldari ship count drags to a minimum with tengus being the last holdout and CCP has to finally recognize how broken the race is on the whole, rather than continue to objectify caldari based on what a single stand-out can do. Of course, I suspect a tengu nerf would be in the cards at that point, but a few years later we might actually get a launcher balance patch!

Conclusion? Off with the drake's head! It's for our own good.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#70 - 2012-01-18 05:12:35 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I for one welcome the prospect of a RoF-bonused, velocity bonused Drake.

BRB buying HAM II launchers Pirate




SHhhhhhhhh!!!


He's just kidding!! Nothing to see here. Move along.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#71 - 2012-01-18 05:47:41 UTC
Rather than nerfing ECM...why not buff sensor damps like they intend to? A celestis/arazu/lach damping a falcon/rook is already very effective against birds at range....
canflipper
Infested U.E.D.
#72 - 2012-01-18 05:55:21 UTC
Shaalira D'arc wrote:
Tier one BCs really do need a boost.


QFT
Lili Lu
#73 - 2012-01-18 05:55:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Lili Lu
Thorn Galen wrote:
"For the sake of players new to EvE, Just don't be stupid and ruin the pve viability of the Drake for new pilots."

Yep, here's one part of the problem. You see, no other race has a BC that can do level 4s like a drake can. The Myrm could have put out sufficient damage, until it got nerfed to a Vexor's damage output. The Harby still can put out the damage, but not have a tank at the same time. And the Cane ditto to the Harby, although it can take advantage of the ridiculous BC shield regen to pass some missions against angels.

Basically if you fly any other race than Caladari you are stuck training BS and large ship weapons, which means more time training into that ship and less isk influx as a relative noob. You can't argue with the stats, and all the stupid replies in ship fitting threads of "just get a Drake" betray what you all know but don't like to admit. The ship lacks the tradeoff decisions that other ships have, damage or tank became damage and tank (sure the damage half is not op, but it is enough to get the job done). The CSM minutes are correct and CCP may finally have the balls to tell the majority population (and probably became the majority population because everyone heard eve is easy, if you get a drake) sorry but your favorite ship is overrepresented and overpowered and we have to trim it back (unlike the swift heavy nerf the Myrmidon got).

Then there is pvp - Despite the well worn cliches - "but it can't do any damage whereas my Harby . . ." (of course then, where are the Harby fleets?), but it has an em hole the size of a (ignoring the fact that it is already partially filled by the resist bonus), and but i sacrifice so much damage to . . . (and yet you can still get full and sufficient damage at 70-80km unlike other ships in class at that range and still have a BS sized tank) the Drake has proliferated. Sure in the beginning everyone scoffed at it due to passive regen fittings trying to pvp. But then people realized here we have an excellent, in fact, BS class buffer and the ability to project damage farther than some BSs can.

Cane fleets exist, but they are used much less often than drake fleets. Cane fleets are sorta gimick fleets "welp fleets". They have a role but it's not going toe to toe with battleships or ahacs unlike a drake fleet. The Drake has been a stand out for far too long.

So what would happen with a damage reorientation. Well, I think you would still see some drake fleets. But they would be used in the same manner as cane fleets. Let's fly something that we may not come back in but we could end up laying a heap load of hurt on something big if we catch it. Without the resist bonus it will not sport a BS sized tank and thus will not be a brawling mainstay fleet type.

For Caldari in general, the Nighthawk will benefit from the overall CCP buff to command ships. Again, probably in the offensive realm as it can already constuct a superior tank. Other tech III could be buffed to bring parity to the Tengu or the Tengu nerfed although probably indirectly through a heavy missile range and/or damage nerf. This was mentioned over a year ago I think, and probably is a right way to go about it.

Rokh and Naga appear to be getting plenty of use in pvp now with the hybrid buffs. Caldari will not disappear from pvp and is not presently underrepresented in fleets, and would not be after a drake nerf.

The only legitimate complaint I see in this thread is the crap about the Naga being too strong in comparison to the Talos. They are different ships that will probably get used differently. Remember too that the meetings and minutes were done about a month or more ago. It is unlikely now that CCP could seriously think the Talos is weak and in need of help or the Naga op.

Basically suck it up. The Drake has managed to escape what hit the Myrm right out of the gate. Probably because there are so many of you (and here I could say me as well because I trained two characters in the Drake since it is the easy route). I look forward frankly to more tier 1 BCs, or Crusiers getting used and not being instant fodder for tier 2 BCs. And, always remember there is an inevitable cycle to this. When I started Gallente was king which lasted a long time. Then there was the Amarr rebalance and everyone wanted to fly a Zealot or Apoc (until the probing change killed sniping BS fleets) and Minmatar was bringing up the rear. Now the perception is Minmatar is king since the projectile buff. Meanwhile, Caldari has always been middling, never bottom, for pvp, and has always been king for pve, and probably will remain that way.
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#74 - 2012-01-18 06:06:16 UTC
Lili Lu wrote:


Cane fleets exist, but they are used much less often than drake fleets. Cane fleets are sorta gimick fleets "welp fleets". They have a role but it's not going toe to toe with battleships or ahacs unlike a drake fleet. The Drake has been a stand out for far too long.




I'm sorry, what?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZcA5g59Zsg

i'll just forget that that super cap and fleet of abbadons never died...
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2012-01-18 06:20:55 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Caldari has the 14 inch *****.

Best ship in the game IMHO.
Liam Mirren
#76 - 2012-01-18 06:30:03 UTC
The Drake is too good, it needs some rebalancing. Having said that, all angels ships and some minmatar ships need balancing as well so if they work on the drake then I expect them to work on angel/minnie as well. If they don't touch stuff like Cynabals and Canes then they're thick as ****.

Also, stating the Talos is underpowered is hilarious beyond words. Perhaps the CSM should do some more actual PVPing rather than Blobbing nonsense.

Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude.

Count D00KU
Inflamed Crusty Unit
#77 - 2012-01-18 06:31:59 UTC
wow,

The only semi useable caldari pvp boat and now they are gonna nerf this too. I don't mind nerfing if a ship is too overpowered but since when is a drake overpowered. Caldari is already the laughing stock when it comes to pvp boats not really really is nothing left.

You already killed of the only viable caldari pvp boats years ago rook/falcon.

If you do this make sure in character creation you scrap option caldari to prevent newer players to choose this race.

Ciao,

Count
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#78 - 2012-01-18 06:34:40 UTC
Kietay Ayari wrote:
Do what ever you want to anything :3 Just don't touch my Tengu.

You meant Ferox, right?
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#79 - 2012-01-18 06:39:29 UTC
Liam Mirren wrote:
The Drake is too good, it needs some rebalancing. Having said that, all angels ships and some minmatar ships need balancing as well so if they work on the drake then I expect them to work on angel/minnie as well. If they don't touch stuff like Cynabals and Canes then they're thick as ****.

Also, stating the Talos is underpowered is hilarious beyond words. Perhaps the CSM should do some more actual PVPing rather than Blobbing nonsense.


If they nerfed the cynabal, maybe, just maybe i'd be ok with some some drake changes Big smile
Tear Miner
Doomheim
#80 - 2012-01-18 06:43:13 UTC
The OP doesn't care about PvP in his drake. He's just sad he won't be able to bot as efficiently.