EVE General Discussion

That's something you pulled out of your ass. No wonder you came up with such a stupid idea, that HAC's should be almost equal to CS's.

BC's are the same short trainers as cruisers and being fully insurable aren't even more expensive than cruisers (same price, give or take say 5 mils tops), unlike HAC's/CS's comparison, where x2 pricetag isn't accompanied by any insurance payouts.

Fon R - what's your point?

As I see it, you are an experienced player, but with strong hatred toward something that’s not up “your” tastes… not a lot of valid points to support your hatred though, except for the fact that Drakes step on the toes of Nighthawks, probably the weakest racial CSs in the game anyway. What else? Drakes are “fugly”? That’s a matter of ones taste really…

Did I ask to nerf something? Did I say anything is "fugly" and should be cut in half for the sake of it?

I accept the game as it is and although I wouldn't want CCP to make Caldari ships even more "useful" (overpowered Naga vs Talos argument , or making Drake to be more like Raven and Caracal... that just sounds disturbing) with their "balance" - I won't be asking to nerf something else cause I simply don't like it. I will just cross train to be able to fly what works.

Although it is really sad to see Caldari, as an outsider and I hope CCP takes time to look at this race line up as a whole before deciding that making changes to a single ship will instantly solve all the problems in game.

That's something you pulled out of your ass. No wonder you came up with such a stupid idea, that HAC's should be almost equal to CS's.

BC's are the same short trainers as cruisers and being fully insurable aren't even more expensive than cruisers (same price, give or take say 5 mils tops), unlike HAC's/CS's comparison, where x2 pricetag isn't accompanied by any insurance payouts.
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Did I miss the drop in BC prices to more or less 8-10 million ISK? Actually, (given give or take), less than 1 million ISK. Pretty sure I used to buy one Cruiser or another for less than 4 million ISK.

I also suggested adding skill requirements to BCs in the nature of a couple Level 5s that currently aren't required; helpful, but not required.

I'm not even going to bother to address the rest. It's not worth it.

So you used meta-0 mods on it then? How is that valid?

ive been saying this would be the only viable "nerf" to the drake for years now as it puts it in line with other t1 caldari missile boats.

its a sly boost to the ferox which is nice as it becomes the better straight brawler and its not much of a nerf to the drake at all. if anything selectable damage trypes and more range is pretty epic !

dont get me wrong this affects me directly i will no longer be able to do cheap c3s with drakes but im happy buying nighhawks for that :)

cs still need a boost regardless of this however, also would be nice to see cruise missiles used outside of pve.

Yeah a 1 in 20 chance to jam is too effective. I just hope they do all these crap changes quickly so I can resolve myself to playing another game. Simple as that. Ive elited shield and ecm skills, and if im on the path to complete ineffectiveness im not going to crosstrain im going to depart.

Before you make a comment on ecm anything actually fit and try one. Enjoy your 4500ehp falcon or if you give up all dps and ecm strength your 16k ehp falcon. Its just pure ownage with ecm that may or may not jam the opponent.

The CSM sucks donkey balls as do most of the uninformed complain first research never playerbase.

This isn't the first time Caldari ships have suffered due to the ignorance/irrational Caldari hatred of CSM members.

The Nighthawk has been criminally low on powergrid forever - last time it came up in the CSM they voted no because it would be too overpowered in PvE. The Nighthawk is the ONLY tech 2 ship to lose powergrid compared to its T1 hull version (the drake).



Uh, Talos is already better than Naga. Many Gallente ships still have issues, Talos isn't one of them.



I wouldn't mind seeing ECM be less random. Of course, back in the day, RSD's were so good they were used on Caldari ships that were bonused for ECM. Maybe that's what the CSM is trying to return to :D




This is a terrible idea. Missile velocity bonuses are ****. It just gives you bigger range and no one snipes with missiles at long ranges.

I wouldn't mind seeing the kinetic damage bonus exchanged for an ROF bonus: same overall DPS but less volley.

The fact that the CSM is vehemently approving of nerfs to the only Caldari ship that really works well in PvP tells me the CSM is just a pack of Caldari haters (and there are always a lot of Caldari haters, because most people associate Caldari with PvE and therefore think their ships should suck in PvP.

Seriously, what does Caldari have in PvP?

1) The Drake
2) ECM

CSM wants both of them nerfed.

In actuality, we need a lot more Caldari ships like the Drake. There are TONS AND TONS of Minmatar ships that are terrific in PvP. Most Caldari ships are terrible in PvP. Why is it the few Caldari ships that you actually do see in PvP being nerfed?

In fact, the BC realm is one of the most balanced realm: Hurricane, Drake, and Harbinger are all terrific and have useful roles and bring things to a fleet. The Myrmidon is kind of meh and badly needs some boosts IMO.

Of course, the Brutix could also be useful if the ludicrious tier system that unnecessarily hampers half the ships in the game was done away with: that's a FAR higher priority item than nerfing the drake.

This honestly sounds like the worst CSM ever. Glad I'm training up Minmatar on every account, I guess.

Yeah I trained up Minnie for off hours stuff like PVP. They are far and above the best PVP ships in the game if you count the Mach well hell they win everything I suppose.

Yitterbium's post is a good one.



All right, just make it harder to train for! :D Problem solved! (To some extent, all missile ships are easier to train for regarding tech II)

Thus, and to an extent most of the tier 2 battlecruisers create a certain number of issues that should be addressed:


The Hurricane in particular obsoletes all cruisers. Identical speed, basically, trivial extra training time, vastly better capabilities. But you are also quite right that the BC's in general overshadow all sub BC hulls, both tech 1 AND tech 2.

IT's also true that many lower tier sub BC hulls are just outright crippled by the terrible tier system. I'd LOVE to see it go away entirely. I want the bellicose and the maller and what not to be worth flying in and of themselves - not just for the 30 minutes it takes to train cruiser III over cruiser II.


Almost no Caldari ships have the PG or slot layout necessary to active tank. The Tengu is the only real exception.



This is because auto cannons are ridiculously, ludicrously, absurdly good. They have INSANELY cheap fitting costs, and take no cap! They are the go to choice on many ships without bonuses, even if it's not their racial type, and are even the weapon of choice on some ships BONUSED FOR OTHER WEAPONS SYSTEMS, like the punisher. AC's need a severe, stiff nerfing (primarily in terms of fitting, I think) before they stop being the clear cut winner at frigate and cruiser levels.



Yes, the Myrmidon would be pretty much fine if it could use hybrids effectively and have more drone bandwidth.

The Caracal is a fine ship: but do you know why? Everyone mounts assault launchers on it and kills frigates with it. This would be overkill on the Drake. The Caracal as a heavy missile weapons platform is destroyed by most other cruisers because it lacks the fitting for an actual tank. But this is mostly due to the tier system. A moa tier caracal would be fine, I think.

The Raven is a completely useless vessel in PvP when armed with cruise missiles. Trying to turn the Drake into a long range missile spewing failure like the Raven will be a severe and disastrous nerfing.

You don't need to make the Drake more like the Raven, you need to make the Raven more like the Drake. Cruise missiles in general are SHOCKINGLY bad in PvP. You keep thinking the 'missile sniper' role is a good one. For BS ranges (hundreds of KM) this is absolutely not true. The travel speed is just way, way too great.

Torpedo armed Ravens would be useful if the raven had more fittng (Or didn't have 2 wasted hi slots) and had enough mid slots to actually shield tank (seriously? only six mid slots on the premier shield tanking missile battleship? The battlecruiser gets 7!)