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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

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Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1361 - 2017-06-10 21:07:25 UTC
Cap pve should have had cap with anomalies designed for cap pve to begin with... From what I remember, from past arguments, the isk injectors were meant only to give new characters the possibility to catch up with veterans, their efficiency being reduced for people with large amounts of sp... Not sure how long does it take to train a super pilot but perhaps the training scheme or number of skills required to pilot a cap should go through a tunning.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Chevy Caputtos
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#1362 - 2017-06-10 21:11:29 UTC
Next thing, they'll sell their MMO to Disney.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1363 - 2017-06-10 21:12:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme Sake
Ter Jern Wolf wrote:
Do you remember when back in the day... CCP used to have a major game breaking problem or change they wanted to make... they would post a 5 page dev blog on the issue a month or three before covering every angle of the problem and as many possible solutions as they could.. then would suggest what they think is best - then ASK THE PLAYERS - what do you think? Then they would spend a few weeks to a month hashing out the needed changes with the players - THEN they would implement them as a refined version of both what they wanted and the players wanted.

I do remember this. I miss this. We need this if we are to thrive for another decade in new eden.



I think the graphs with the huge amount of trillions of generated isk forced them to come up with this unannounced sollution. Trillions of isk that can be reinvested in isk injectors generating even more pve super pilots. Bear

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
blaedin jordan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1364 - 2017-06-10 21:12:58 UTC
Ter Jern Wolf wrote:
Do you remember when back in the day... CCP used to have a major game breaking problem or change they wanted to make... they would post a 5 page dev blog on the issue a month or three before covering every angle of the problem and as many possible solutions as they could.. then would suggest what they think is best - then ASK THE PLAYERS - what do you think? Then they would spend a few weeks to a month hashing out the needed changes with the players - THEN they would implement them as a refined version of both what they wanted and the players wanted.

I do remember this. I miss this. We need this if we are to thrive for another decade in new eden.


I remember, but those days are gone. Now we have more arrogant administrators that evidently run the game like they're roleplaying Amarrian slavemasters passing down decrees to the lowly surf-players beneath them. A 20% nerf should go down as one of the greatest nerfs to any class, in any game, ever. And if you try carriers out on the test servers, they are seriously under-powered now.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1365 - 2017-06-10 21:19:27 UTC
Sounds like a good incentive to get people to carebear in wh's instead, so i like it!
The big imbalance since the hughe increase in saftey in null since citadels needs to be fixed off even more!

No local in null sec would fix everything!
Chevy Caputtos
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#1366 - 2017-06-10 21:21:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Chevy Caputtos
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mestori Anar wrote:
If the problem was bounties, wtf are nerfing the ship?!?!?!?!
Keep the ship as is, and then do a logarthmic drop for bounties. The higher tick you get, the lower your next tick will be for x amount of time. That way casuals who rat for an hour or so can still get their income while the guys who are truly the 1% of the 1% will see their ticks drop dramatically if they are constantly super ratting.

I am nowhere near the 1% of the 1% and these changes absolutely suck.


Because bounties were not a problem before the carrier changes. Yes bounties injected alot of ISK, but not to the degree we are seeing now. Prior to the change it was around 40 trillion ISK being injected, not it is nearly 70 trillion ISK.



Maybe it has something to do with adding skill injectors... Then players use end-game ships to rat, because there isn't other profitable/meaningful content available.
Ter Jern Wolf
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1367 - 2017-06-10 21:25:41 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
Ter Jern Wolf wrote:
Do you remember when back in the day... CCP used to have a major game breaking problem or change they wanted to make... they would post a 5 page dev blog on the issue a month or three before covering every angle of the problem and as many possible solutions as they could.. then would suggest what they think is best - then ASK THE PLAYERS - what do you think? Then they would spend a few weeks to a month hashing out the needed changes with the players - THEN they would implement them as a refined version of both what they wanted and the players wanted.

I do remember this. I miss this. We need this if we are to thrive for another decade in new eden.



I think the graphs with the huge amount of trillions of enerated isk forced them to come up with this unannounced sollution. Trillions of isk that can be reinvested in isk injectors generating even more pve super pilots. Bear


It's a panic nerf brought on by poor foresight and not consulting the players and working closely with them at large. Any decent designer should have foreseen this issue with skill injects, and we as a player base (and CCP) have known about the lack of isk sinks since we actually had a real economist working with us (I miss his posts too). We have literally had YEARS to deal with the fact empires pay bounties out of thin air and we've never had close to a balanced amount of isk sinks to destroy that isk generated. It has always been a problem, it's just gone from a steady inflation to a rapid inflation with the ability to instantly train into whatever faucet you want to tap if you can get the resources ($$$). This means it's no longer a multi-month process for an elite to switch gears and tap a faucet or expand a faucet tap. The changes proposed in patch aren't going to fix that - just buy a little time at the expense of every player.

We need real solutions. Many have been proposed some of the best include closing the isk cycle so that bounties come from taxes - and then IF isk starts running low more can be secretly added to the pool behind the curtains.
Trajan Unknown
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1368 - 2017-06-10 21:26:51 UTC
Suitonia wrote:
Great changes



I agree with Suitonia? Is this some crazy parallel universe? Lol
Aldent Arkanon
Vulture Enterprises
Brotherhood of Spacers
#1369 - 2017-06-10 21:27:22 UTC
Moor Deybe wrote:


Too effective in PVP? Isn't there supposed to be a rock for every pair of scissors in this game?
Why not increase the effectiveness of the carriers' counter in PVP?


The funny part is that the current counters are actually so effective that they almost need a nerf. Unfortunately, most of the "elite small gang" crowd that usually tends to cry about carriers in PvP, prefers to whine for them to be nerfed instead of using readily available counters like bringing one jamming ship on an alt.
Stella Arcady
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1370 - 2017-06-10 21:33:06 UTC
You say people are multiboxing carriers and super carriers to an extent that breaks isk faucet into game.

We say fighters are too easily killed in PVP and to a lesser extent in PVE against non-BS targets.

You say fighters need to be targeted more.


My two-step catch-all semi-solution I propose to partially address all this? It will Increase the APM by carriers particularly supercarriers to manage their fighters.

Give all fighter classes some sort of new defensive ability, a 4th activated ability - either on charge or CD (or both). Like 90% reduction in signature radius for 10s, or maybe 75% gain to resists for 8s. Could have it vary from class to class. Managing this will up the APM to rat and not lose fighters (assuming the NPC targeting boost goes through).

Secondly - a new class of support fighters to be pro-fighter support. These allow nearby fighters (or targeted friendly fighters) to receive substantial defensive boosts like buffer shield ect. This most importantly allows players greater choice between defense and offense, opening up a wider sandbox.

Third, widen the highslot array for carriers. Make a new activated module (maybe unique, same type as networked sensor) that does some sort of fighter boost.
Longtooth
13-Bravo Group
#1371 - 2017-06-10 21:35:38 UTC
Stella Arcady wrote:
You say people are multiboxing carriers and super carriers to an extent that breaks isk faucet into game.

We say fighters are too easily killed in PVP and to a lesser extent in PVE against non-BS targets.

You say fighters need to be targeted more.


My two-step catch-all semi-solution I propose to partially address all this? It will Increase the APM by carriers particularly supercarriers to manage their fighters.

Give all fighter classes some sort of new defensive ability, a 4th activated ability - either on charge or CD (or both). Like 90% reduction in signature radius for 10s, or maybe 75% gain to resists for 8s. Could have it vary from class to class. Managing this will up the APM to rat and not lose fighters (assuming the NPC targeting boost goes through).

Secondly - a new class of support fighters to be pro-fighter support. These allow nearby fighters (or targeted friendly fighters) to receive substantial defensive boosts like buffer shield ect. This most importantly allows players greater choice between defense and offense, opening up a wider sandbox.

Third, widen the highslot array for carriers. Make a new activated module (maybe unique, same type as networked sensor) that does some sort of fighter boost.


or they could just stop perpetrating the entire screw job to begin with. Think along the lines of Don't start no ****, won't be no ****.
Kaze Mester
Perkone
Caldari State
#1372 - 2017-06-10 21:36:20 UTC
Sorry...im late... was looking for another game...
Did we get any response from CCP?
Longtooth
13-Bravo Group
#1373 - 2017-06-10 21:37:21 UTC
Kaze Mester wrote:
Sorry...im late... was looking for another game...
Did we get any response from CCP?


No I don't think we have. But, then again, is anybody really surprised by CCP silence?
mrammo
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1374 - 2017-06-10 21:44:25 UTC  |  Edited by: mrammo
Supers already suck at pvp. No one uses supers to win a battle. They are only getting used if you already won a battle or would win the battle anyway to further insult the enemy. That is a horrible status and you are making it even worse.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1375 - 2017-06-10 21:44:57 UTC
Ter Jern Wolf wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:
Ter Jern Wolf wrote:
Do you remember when back in the day... CCP used to have a major game breaking problem or change they wanted to make... they would post a 5 page dev blog on the issue a month or three before covering every angle of the problem and as many possible solutions as they could.. then would suggest what they think is best - then ASK THE PLAYERS - what do you think? Then they would spend a few weeks to a month hashing out the needed changes with the players - THEN they would implement them as a refined version of both what they wanted and the players wanted.

I do remember this. I miss this. We need this if we are to thrive for another decade in new eden.



I think the graphs with the huge amount of trillions of enerated isk forced them to come up with this unannounced sollution. Trillions of isk that can be reinvested in isk injectors generating even more pve super pilots. Bear


It's a panic nerf brought on by poor foresight and not consulting the players and working closely with them at large. Any decent designer should have foreseen this issue with skill injects, and we as a player base (and CCP) have known about the lack of isk sinks since we actually had a real economist working with us (I miss his posts too). We have literally had YEARS to deal with the fact empires pay bounties out of thin air and we've never had close to a balanced amount of isk sinks to destroy that isk generated. It has always been a problem, it's just gone from a steady inflation to a rapid inflation with the ability to instantly train into whatever faucet you want to tap if you can get the resources ($$$). This means it's no longer a multi-month process for an elite to switch gears and tap a faucet or expand a faucet tap. The changes proposed in patch aren't going to fix that - just buy a little time at the expense of every player.

We need real solutions. Many have been proposed some of the best include closing the isk cycle so that bounties come from taxes - and then IF isk starts running low more can be secretly added to the pool behind the curtains.


I agree that it is a panic nerf but perhaps the end game means are too easy to handle? Just how much skill (not skills) is required from a pilot to operate these end game means. Never been interested in caps but I can imagine anyone can pilot those, given the trained skills and isk to sit in them, otherwise there wouldn't be such a sudden isk inflation.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
Devon Stone
Doomheim
#1376 - 2017-06-10 21:46:33 UTC
Kaze Mester wrote:
Sorry...im late... was looking for another game...
Did we get any response from CCP?


bubble witch is the perfect game for a care bear goon that fled their systems without a fight and cowered in POS bubbles and npc stsations.

Fighter nerfs

gated anoms restricted to subcaps

reduced bounties

reduced faction drops

reduce number of anoms

reduce the respawn rate of anoms

all for the care bear coward goon that cried for drone nerfs
C0ATL
Renegade Stars
Stellae Renascitur
#1377 - 2017-06-10 21:48:45 UTC
Longtooth wrote:
Kaze Mester wrote:
Sorry...im late... was looking for another game...
Did we get any response from CCP?


No I don't think we have. But, then again, is anybody really surprised by CCP silence?



Ultimately, I don't care if they answer, as long as they get their heads out of their asses....both for this nerf and for future 'genius' decisions.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1378 - 2017-06-10 21:48:54 UTC
Another suggestion I saw elsewhere...

Add a resist bonus to rats when taking damage from fighters.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Longtooth
13-Bravo Group
#1379 - 2017-06-10 21:49:20 UTC
Devon Stone wrote:
Kaze Mester wrote:
Sorry...im late... was looking for another game...
Did we get any response from CCP?


bubble witch is the perfect game for a care bear goon that fled their systems without a fight and cowered in POS bubbles and npc stsations.

Fighter nerfs

gated anoms restricted to subcaps

reduced bounties

reduced faction drops

reduce number of anoms

reduce the respawn rate of anoms

all for the care bear coward goon that cried for drone nerfs


Hawt, I'mma go play me some bubble witch and pw0nz0rz. Who do I have to contact to build me a super bubble and how much?
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#1380 - 2017-06-10 21:50:50 UTC
Chevy Caputtos wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Mestori Anar wrote:
If the problem was bounties, wtf are nerfing the ship?!?!?!?!
Keep the ship as is, and then do a logarthmic drop for bounties. The higher tick you get, the lower your next tick will be for x amount of time. That way casuals who rat for an hour or so can still get their income while the guys who are truly the 1% of the 1% will see their ticks drop dramatically if they are constantly super ratting.

I am nowhere near the 1% of the 1% and these changes absolutely suck.


Because bounties were not a problem before the carrier changes. Yes bounties injected alot of ISK, but not to the degree we are seeing now. Prior to the change it was around 40 trillion ISK being injected, not it is nearly 70 trillion ISK.



Maybe it has something to do with adding skill injectors... Then players use end-game ships to rat, because there isn't other profitable/meaningful content available.


I doubt it. Skill injectors have been around for quite sometime. It is most likely due to changes to carriers and supers.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online