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[June] Fighter Damage Reduction

First post First post First post
Author
Sir PuppyPunch
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1401 - 2017-06-10 22:56:58 UTC
I guess I should post on the public forums as well since Reddit is taken with a grain of salt.

This nerf is bad for the game and the gamers associated with it. Since the previous nerf bat the fighters were already in a bad place in regards to pvp, defanging supers and carriers alike is an easy task for any small-mid sized cruiser gang. This means that my carrier sits more than it did before the last patch already. Less opportunity to use my carrier toon means I don't want to sub that account if it sits all day. I do sub it though for the pve content, which in turn puts another capital out there for someone to gank and possibly create content on any random night where I'm trying to make isk. It also adds a possible carrier to our standing fleets in the situation where we might escalate to some crazy fight that can hit the gaming magazines and vlogs or chatted about on some podcast.

That same toon is at the point where it can purchase a super. It's survived the countless hours out there grinding away producing a million clicks actively (because carrier ratting isn't afk in case some of you at ccp don't know) locking and shooting these sansha rats before the decimate my fighters. I've skilled up my carrier toon to good skills, poured months in to this toon and effectively years of focus and probably days of thought and planning. I don't want to put this toon in a super now though. It's in a terrible place with regards to pvp AND now with the upcoming changes pve too.

What does that mean for me now that my next step in the game has been removed from me?

I simply don't play. Citadels have destroyed pvp. Gone are the days of content generation.. lets go hit some timers on thursday to see if we can get a fight doesn't really exist unless it's for some moon way out there that we don't even want. If you hit one citadel (which is an incredible task with even 1 person defending) it doesn't matter because they can go spend a mere 2b and asset safety their stuff on over like its nothing.

WH content is also 1 sided for me now. I used to enjoy going in random holes and searching for undefended pos's to hit and possibly score some loot. That's gone. Every hole is littered with random citadels now, abandoned but too difficult for me to spend two weeks to see if there's anything in there... I guess I should say 0 sided because I'm not actively ratting any more so I'm also not producing content for them to come and generate. So that's gone too.

I was rorq mining, post first patch (maybe the second one too) making a paltry 200m per hour for putting a hot 12b on the line and hanging out whilst waiting for someone to come along and play with us. That was nerfed in to the ground, pointless now. -1 more toon. I injected for this and made my money back so it's no big deal. It was fun though while it lasted.

So as a null sec player what's left?

PVP is a shell of it's former self with the introduction of citadels. PVE has been nerfed to the ground in regards to capitals which is the stage I'm at (I'm not going back to VNI'S). I could probably figure out how to bot with a tengu which I see is pretty easy and you guys don't punish reported botters but that's not really my thing. WH content is dead. 10/10s are a thing of the past for me. Oh yeah, you guys do those little events here and there but honestly they're pretty lame. The sites are super basic. Data/Relic sites!? NVM, I've ran thousands of them and the loot sucks compared to the loot spout days (which btw I really enjoyed trying to grab those cans floating away). I've ran logistics but honestly the servers have been too funky for a hot minute and I'm basically scared to death to have a dc whilst my jf is on the line.

I haven't played the past couple months because I was burnt out from the lack of content and nerfing of pve content in regards to the rorq/fighter sigs. I was kind of getting the itch again because of the upcoming AT stuff, that would give me something to chat about and look forward to while I filled my time with pve. Things like this nerf show me how blind your staff is some times in regards to other serious problems with this game.

Citadels are destroying pvp. Ghost farming/botters/citadels are bloating the economy, not the one dude out there in a super/carrier grinding his weekend away trying to plex an account or two. It's crazy to me. Listen to these people that play the game and start addressing the things people are trying to tell you.
Chevy Caputtos
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#1402 - 2017-06-10 22:58:27 UTC
GROUND XERO wrote:
So ccp is crying about iskies...

- where is most ratting?
- who is using most ratting carriers and supers?
- where is most mining?
-where is most production?
- oh where spawned the new titan thinngy (aka pirate faction Titan)?.,...


is it all in goon space?

Why not just nerf goons?


Or, you know, we could just give them more Molok BPs...
blaedin jordan
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1403 - 2017-06-10 23:07:27 UTC  |  Edited by: blaedin jordan
They're going to lose a lot of money next month once scripts run out, I hope they listen to the community and develop isk sinks instead of nerf batting (20% damage!! Seriously CCP) our endgame ships. At the very least this decision should be held until more discussion and testing can be performed.
Fl4chz4ng3
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1404 - 2017-06-10 23:14:40 UTC
I remember my first feeling when i try the supercarrier in pve

trying to improve my efficiency each time going from a 90m tick to a 160m now

really sad to see this beautiful game going this way....
Ian Hestia
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1405 - 2017-06-10 23:22:44 UTC
Sir PuppyPunch wrote:
(because carrier ratting isn't afk in case some of you at ccp don't know)



I just want to highlight this sentence. In stead of AFK ratting like Vexor/VNI, Carrier ratting do need to pay a lot attention on controlling the fighters. Not much people could ratting in a Carrier for like 23/7 as those AFK ratting ship.
Sam Khanid
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1406 - 2017-06-10 23:31:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Sam Khanid
Ian Hestia wrote:
Sir PuppyPunch wrote:
(because carrier ratting isn't afk in case some of you at ccp don't know)



I just want to highlight this sentence. In stead of AFK ratting like Vexor/VNI, Carrier ratting do need to pay a lot attention on controlling the fighters. Not much people could ratting in a Carrier for like 23/7 as those AFK ratting ship.


The people making suggestions like "carriers are afk ratting machines" either don't play the game or are deliberately spewing disinformation. If you try to afk rat in a 2k17 carrier then you will lose more isk in fighters than you gain from the anom.

Point remains, a 20% nerf to fighter damage is far too much coupled with a 15% chance for npcs to target fighters too.
ISD Max Trix
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#1407 - 2017-06-10 23:43:22 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Max Trix
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Jang Taredi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1408 - 2017-06-11 01:42:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Jang Taredi
Is there any chance of this being rethought? Seems like CSM wasn't involved in the decision whatsoever, and any checks and balances were evaded at CCP Headquarters.

Also, 260m ticks? That would be like multiboxing 3 Revenants.
Crash 888
TRINTEX
#1409 - 2017-06-11 01:49:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Crash 888
The fact that "PVE super" is now a common thing is evidence of insane level of safety brought to vast areas of the galaxy thanks to jump fatigue.
Bruce Destro
Hyperian Command
Solyaris Chtonium
#1410 - 2017-06-11 01:53:05 UTC
as i posted earlier, increase the isk value of anomaly rats so that a max skilled battleship pilot can get close to the isk income of a carrier, and place an acceleration gate at the anomally. carriers should never have been PVE ships. it just wasnt the plan. some smartass in a nyx with 25 fighters realised it was a good idea and now its the norm. i want to use battleships, HAC"s and what not for pve again. just place an acceleration gate and up the isk values for anomalies. easy fix.
cybercoder2 Shimaya
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#1411 - 2017-06-11 02:02:20 UTC
owww my god really carnet believe how stupid ccp are . they will kill the game if this happens ..last game I played did the same things over and over again just like this ..and the game is on it last legs after being around for over 10 years ...they really need to rethink this before it goes live
Sam Khanid
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#1412 - 2017-06-11 02:06:00 UTC
Jang Taredi wrote:
Is there any chance of this being rethought? Seems like CSM wasn't involved in the decision whatsoever, and any checks and balances were evaded at CCP Headquarters.

Also, 260m ticks? That would be like multiboxing 3 Revenants.


They really should reconsider, but I wouldn't hold my breath for them to care about the community like that--they seem intent on screwing endgame ships :(

The only metrics that will convince them are unsubscribed accounts I fear, not forum posts.
Odessima
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1413 - 2017-06-11 02:09:04 UTC
It is all a plot to steal more intelligent and workable idea's from the player base.
Jang Taredi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1414 - 2017-06-11 02:12:26 UTC
Crash 888 wrote:
The fact that "PVE super" is now a common thing is evidence of insane level of safety brought to vast areas of the galaxy thanks to jump fatigue.


Carriers seem to get blapped pretty often, actually.
C0ATL
Renegade Stars
Stellae Renascitur
#1415 - 2017-06-11 02:15:20 UTC
Gimme Sake wrote:
Wolf theQuarrelsome wrote:
Gimme Sake wrote:

I agree that it is a panic nerf but perhaps the end game means are too easy to handle? Just how much skill (not skills) is required from a pilot to operate these end game means. Never been interested in caps but I can imagine anyone can pilot those, given the trained skills and isk to sit in them, otherwise there wouldn't be such a sudden isk inflation.


Stupid forum ate my reply... Carriers are for normal people 1 per person to farm. Those who don't are either super skilled people or cheating with stealth input broadcasting.

Rorqs however stack a little too easily while multiboxing.



However the graphs show carriers responsible for the isk influx. Even if there are other factors that stack.



Where exactly do the graphs show >carriers< responsible for the ISK influx? While bounty is the highest index on the income graph, it needs to be stated that it has always been so. The extra influx is coming from Alpha clones being drafted into nullsec alliances and thought to AFK rat in drone cruisers. CCP claims to make a stand against passive isk income while doing little to nothing in terms of punishing bot users and solving AFK cruiser ratting. Funny how on the same release as carrier nerfs, the Vexor and Ishtar models are getting a re-work :))) ...

.
.
.

Actually.... what if CCP is unsatisfied with people ratting in carriers -- since they are making enough ISK to live by with just 1 account, because carrier multiboxing cant be done? What if their true intention with this whole nerf is to get people who used carriers to move into Ishtars and PLEX 1-2 more accounts in order to get to the same level of income as they had on their carrier? Afterall, more PLEX is more cash from the cash cow, right?

Bring me a tinfoil hat. I might just be on to something... ;)

So if I PLEX 2 more accounts, will you leave carriers alone, CCP? Maybe all carrier pilots need to PLEX more accounts and that will satisfy their greed.

Just kidding, ofc. Still unsubbing -- though not before I help every player I know open their eyes to CCP's garbage politics and logic.
This is starting to smell a bit like the Incarna scandal, does it not? Have you forgotten already, CCP?
Chevy Caputtos
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#1416 - 2017-06-11 02:30:02 UTC
C0ATL wrote:
[quote=Gimme Sake][quote=Wolf theQuarrelsome][quote=Gimme Sake]
Actually.... what if CCP is unsatisfied with people ratting in carriers -- since they are making enough ISK to live by with just 1 account, because carrier multiboxing cant be done? What if their true intention with this whole nerf is to get people who used carriers to move into Ishtars and PLEX 1-2 more accounts in order to get to the same level of income as they had on their carrier? Afterall, more PLEX is more cash from the cash cow, right?


I think the fact CCP employees cited RMT as a reason for the change is evidence enough. They don't want the "1% of the 1%" of players to be making ~$3 in ISK an hour, instead of buying PLEX. Even though said players are risking a lot, and have to train and afford those ships in the first place.
Elvis Ernaga
Dol0
#1417 - 2017-06-11 02:34:43 UTC
Nerfing PVP ships because you are not able to properly design PVE content is plain stupid
Raj Nakrar
Republic Guard
Brave Collective
#1418 - 2017-06-11 02:40:57 UTC
Faruzen en Divalone wrote:
Siobhan MacLeary wrote:
"We want to reduce the income players receive from pirate bounties."

Why not just, y'know, reduce the payout of bounties directly instead of defanging (super)carriers in PVP?


That would also reduce payouts for ratters not using carriers. And that is not intended (and needed) IMO. Carriers are the core of the problem, but nerfing them overall is bad still.


ccp hasn't show a graph breaking income by ship type so it's just an excuse, nerf all bounties and by so doing keep the field leveled
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#1419 - 2017-06-11 02:41:36 UTC
C0ATL wrote:


Where exactly do the graphs show >carriers< responsible for the ISK influx? While bounty is the highest index on the income graph, it needs to be stated that it has always been so. The extra influx is coming from Alpha clones being drafted into nullsec alliances and thought to AFK rat in drone cruisers. CCP claims to make a stand against passive isk income while doing little to nothing in terms of punishing bot users and solving AFK cruiser ratting. Funny how on the same release as carrier nerfs, the Vexor and Ishtar models are getting a re-work :))) ...

The fact that the dramatic spike in Bounties from about 40 Trillion isk to today's 70 Trillion isk can be traced back to the patch that buffed carriers. Given that Vexors & Ishtars have been around in their current form for significantly longer, and if it were profitable to the tune of 30 trillion isk to put more alts doing it, people would have done it with subbed alts, it's a reasonable assumption to guess that Alpha's in Vexors are not responsible for the sudden jump and that it is instead carriers.
Furthermore Quant is almost certainly capable of pulling more detailed metrics from the system like 'what ship was someone in when they got paid/killed a rat' and probably does know what he's talking about when he says that the spike is carriers.
Especially when the player accessible data supports that statement.

I.E. Stop trying to blame someone else and accept that it is carriers causing the massive spike.
Chevy Caputtos
Ascendance
Goonswarm Federation
#1420 - 2017-06-11 02:50:42 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
C0ATL wrote:


Where exactly do the graphs show >carriers< responsible for the ISK influx? While bounty is the highest index on the income graph, it needs to be stated that it has always been so. The extra influx is coming from Alpha clones being drafted into nullsec alliances and thought to AFK rat in drone cruisers. CCP claims to make a stand against passive isk income while doing little to nothing in terms of punishing bot users and solving AFK cruiser ratting. Funny how on the same release as carrier nerfs, the Vexor and Ishtar models are getting a re-work :))) ...

The fact that the dramatic spike in Bounties from about 40 Trillion isk to today's 70 Trillion isk can be traced back to the patch that buffed carriers. Given that Vexors & Ishtars have been around in their current form for significantly longer, and if it were profitable to the tune of 30 trillion isk to put more alts doing it, people would have done it with subbed alts, it's a reasonable assumption to guess that Alpha's in Vexors are not responsible for the sudden jump and that it is instead carriers.
Furthermore Quant is almost certainly capable of pulling more detailed metrics from the system like 'what ship was someone in when they got paid/killed a rat' and probably does know what he's talking about when he says that the spike is carriers.
Especially when the player accessible data supports that statement.

I.E. Stop trying to blame someone else and accept that it is carriers causing the massive spike.


Might have more to do with skill injectors.