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disgree none of the other bses are worth using except maybe hype
buffing pirate bs prices doesnt suddenly make other bses worth using
or taking into fights
we just see even less bses in fights than we do currently
of course ccp only cares about csm fleet doctrine experience

So, what'll happen in situations where individual players cannot obtain a BPC at a reasonable cost in terms of ISK or effort?

The reason that large alliances are able to easily get a hold of these things is because they are just that: large alliances with lots of players, who are able to simply warp in, destroy everything in a single pass, collect every scrap of good loot, then warp to the next similar site. This is much the reason why BPC costs are as low as they are. Wealth tends to beget more wealth, and these guys have a LOT of resources (players, ships, and ISK) to work with from the start.

For individual players though, it's a much different story. We have to work our tails off to get a single copy of a pirate battleship print, and even then it's sometimes too expensive to build for us, and/or we don't have the skills or materials to make use of our hard-won prizes. Even then, when we're all done we've got ONE pirate battleship that we've put together ourselves. Or, we've got ONE that we've worked hard earning enough ISK to buy on our own.

What'll happen with both groups (and those in between) during an economic re-balance of these hulls and their cost to drop & build?

This change is going to make me have to sit down and think if I really want to work that hard to play a game.

It's unfortunate that the development team thinks the game needs to head in this direction, and I think it's going to lead to many players being unwilling to risk a ship to engage in PvP. It's hard enough as it is to get started in this game and work your way into better ships.

Now you're talking about making it twice as hard (going by the market prices I saw today.)

That doesn't even sound fun.

if you think comparing ships in the meta is like comparing apples and oranges it shows how clueless you are
if you think one meta doesnt affect another
and the only way you can make a point is by going on about the garbage fleet doctrines
for fights that dont happen anymore
and are boring as hell
countering my point that ccp only cares about garbage fleet doctrine by using fleet doctrine as an argument sigh

also id like to see what you think im fabulously wrong about

Congratulations, you've ticked all the boxes on the 'I'm just opinionated with no experience to back me up' bingo board. I would suggest opening Zkill and taking a look at anything, really. Also.... isn't the current rage of rorquals and ratting carriers exactly opposite of fleet PVP doctrines? And the launching of the Reprocessing facilities soon *TM and Hyasyoda/Thukker service modules? And even the BR Sotiyo? Negating your claim that CCP only cares about fleet doctrines?


Another also... yeah, only an idiot would say that meta's don't affect each other, but it also takes someone nearly as gifted to suggest that comparing broken meta's to broken meta's, then using those comparisons to make overarching generalizations about balances within a single meta gives a usable outcome. If you go back and re-read just a bit... you'll see the thread is about battleships to battleships.... not battleships to everything else, broken or not.


No doubt there are issues that battleships as a class need resolved, but they are not, as you have put it, not used because they are all bad and fights don't happen anymore. Within the past 2-3 days, a couple(at least) mid sized fights have taken place using machs and maelstroms.... Eve doesn't balance ships so that a single bad in a battleship can YOLO around and kill all the bads cause he's Uber, Eve balances ships to have strengths and weaknesses, and more importantly, limits. Yes, we're in a slower period right now, but if war breaks out tomorrow you can bet machs, maelstroms, and torphoons will be back in style. One of battleships largest problems should be resolved if CCP properly nerfs T3's back into place.. But this thread is not about how battleships compare to broken things like T3's or ECM(which isn't just broken for battleships, it will equally break anything if you are silly enough to get caught on your own with ECM on the field)... it's about how Pirate BS are out of balance with all other BS, making all other BS not really even a thing worth bothering with, with a few notable exceptions. If you'd like to discuss the matter at hand... please do. If you're just gonna complain about how slighted you feel that you'll have to pay what a machariel is actually supposed to be worth and how unfair it is that it doesn't WTFPWN everything.... go to reddit.


Do I expect you to take in anything being said? No, your fingers are in your ears and you're screaming 'I'm right you're wrong!' at the top of your lungs. Instead I'd just ask you to sit quietly. We get it, you're mad you will have to pay what a Pirate BS should actually be worth. If that's too much to ask, then contract me your stuff brah.

derp
hypocrite really funny
considering i havent even compared t3cs to bses
and yet here you are doing it yourself


derp
thats exactly what i saidf


derp
never said that


derp
hypocrite

yup thanks for wasting my time by contradicting your own arguments
using my own points against me and then making stuff up that i never even said

all this because youre jealous im a younger player than you and you feel the need to assert your superiority as an older player
except everything you just said is garbage (okay il;l give you maelstrom is somewhat decent along with hype wow 1 bs wd)
and you just come off as a condescending jerk
bye

I don't need to assert anything. Your back and forth all over the spectrum ruins whatever credence you may have had. You go from 'No one uses battleships, lel, clueless, garbage fleet doctrines, lel, ccp only cares about pvp' to 'oh crap I'm wrong and don't know what I'm talking about' to 'but all the metas affect each other so problems BS face as a whole must be pinned on the changes being made within the battleships themselves' to 'noo no no no no, what what I actually said is hat battleships aren't worth using because machariel, not because other metas' to 'Oh I better stick my fingers in my ears and yell, and lel and bad trolling even harder, while picking single line responses to my earlier posts out and hanging on them like a lifeline cause I don't have anything else to say.'



Being an older player doesn't make anyone anything. Some of the worst players I've met in this game were older players who knew everything about everything. There is a great deal about this game I don't know much of anything about. You should see my first carrier loss. Comical. I didn't know. Rorqual mining and carrier ratting for another. But, f you're going to call my perspective garbage, then back it up with actual substance. Or sit quietly and derp to yourself in your corner. As it stands, you've not provided a single statement that lends any credence to you being anything other than a really really really really bad at trying to troll. But please, go on, tell me I'm jealous, if you feel the need to stroke yourself. It's fine. I've been called far worse. Frankly I'm having more fun than anything else at this point. Starting to wonder if you're not actually Reaver Glitterstem, though in his defense, he would write pages and pages of response.... even if it was all way out there.






Translation: The other BS aren't worth using, and changing the Pirate prices doesn't change that.


Actuality: It does. Explained a few posts ago. Fabulously wrong, you are..

Kinda hard to get any substance out of any of your posts when they are all literally badposting. Now that you've actually provided something concrete:

1) Get over it or unsub. Of course making them more expensive will make them more exclusive. That is literally the problem that needs fixing, that they are too numerous and easy to get. More exclusive and a harder goal to attain is what they are designed to be, not a hot rod in everyone's garage.

2) Can you say 'Let's just power creep all the things!'? Cause that's what buffing everything is called. Pirate and Faction ships/mods are supposed to objectively be better than T1.


Go ahead and keep accusing me of making stuff up. Your stance is objectively wrong on a fundamental level, based on your opinion, not game design or a working knowledge of about how things are intended to be balanced. I do accept your apology for overreacting though.


HINT: ^ that last bit there was taking what you've said and making stuff up. Everything else has been responding directly to what you've said and the only intelligible implication I can get out of it.

You should inject reading comprehension 1.




That bit there? Yeah. Good game though. Was fun while it lasted. You said 'ok bye' 3 posts ago, but you're still going. When are you going to deliver on that? Or are you still trying to prove you're not completely ignorant?

Concrete proof you are:








Because you're suggestion to just make them the same power levels as pirate BS, but then make the faction and pirate ones better, doesn't work like that. One is going to be better than the other. You either keep their power levels relative to where they are and rebalance within that, which is what this change is doing... or you make them all stronger, which is what you're suggesting. PS: Making T1's pirate level strength then distinguishing the faction and pirate with extra stuff is increasing all their power level.

Also hint: Of course veteran players are going to have an easier time. As it should be. Every single game in existence, veteran players have an advantage, be it in experience, equipment, skills, whatever. Having goals to work for and things that require time, isk and experience is a good thing for a game. Get over it. You don't get to walk in and on day one fly a VNI, on day two, fly a Vindicator, and on day 3 be in a super carrier, unless you're going to inject some serious skills, which you could do. But a veteran player will still have an advantage in experience, resources, and contacts. Duh?


So about that 'Ok, bye' comment you made a few posts back?