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[Summer] Pirate Battleship Cost Intervention

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Author
Kay Bold
Doomheim
#161 - 2017-06-09 18:59:16 UTC
Once again ccp pandering to Null cry babies and screwing everybody over. Pirate ships unbalanced? as if they had T3C resists... nope.

And thanks for releasing this info before the changes, all we wanted was for more market manipulation to happen. Couse u'know plex reaching 1,5Bi is totally fine.

"Balance". This will just ****-block the poorest and small groups. I don't see any of eve's empires struggling to pay 1Bi in a ship hull to build a fleet. And it only benefits the same empires that hold the territories in order to farm the bloody BPs

T1 and faction Battleships suck, how about some buffs on them???
Pegs Thiesant
Virtutis Fortuna Comes
#162 - 2017-06-09 19:08:53 UTC
JC Mieyli wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
JC Mieyli wrote:
increase material cost and lower bpc means less availability for pirate bs
this means all the industrialists get to build pirate bs early and stockpile
screws over the young industiralist again

how about for once instead of increasing cost to benefit veteran industrialist
try lowering the cost of everything else to help the young industrialist and screw the rich fatcat players
would be niceto see this happen for a change

"Instead of rebalancing one part of the game that's out of alignment, please change literally everything else about the EVE economy."

yup
is that a problem
and tbh its not the one part of the game thats out of alignment
the whole economy is out of alignment because of players taking advantage of mineral cost increases
and thats what is going to happen here too



Hmmmm how about this: Eve is a true reflection of real life, it is as corrupt, full of spongers, con artists, and people just trying to screw you out of your isk, either through scams or multifaceted corps making the price fixing. (can't wait to hear the responses)

But also as in real life there are some honest, reliable and trustworthy people in this game. You either except that or you dont, we all have a choice.
SurrenderMonkey
The Exchange Collective
Solyaris Chtonium
#163 - 2017-06-09 19:12:07 UTC
Kay Bold wrote:
Once again ccp pandering to Null cry babies



Really, you think this is at the request of null pilots?

The ones fielding machs as mainline doctrines?

Really?

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/

Maya Sakamoto
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Ocularis Inferno
#164 - 2017-06-09 19:46:48 UTC
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Kay Bold wrote:
Once again ccp pandering to Null cry babies



Really, you think this is at the request of null pilots?

The ones fielding machs as mainline doctrines?

Really?


What he/she's getting at is the this won't (necessarily) affect the pockets of those able to hang in null, but will definitely hurt new players/small corps and alliances. No need to deflect the point.

If anything, it's an attempt by CCP to drive plex sales up by "poorer" indy/pvp players to be able to stay in the current doctrines/metas to otherwise be competitive as well as being able to afford the cost increases. Meanwhile the veteran indy players will enjoy their added income along the way once this happens.

As suggested before, CCP could have ninja-nerfed the drop rates for the BPCs and be done with it. The price increases won't really raise so much until the current stockpiles of those BPCs start running dry, but you can bet some will jump on trying to make them raise before it's "necessary".
O2 jayjay
Tungsten Carbonide Asset Management
#165 - 2017-06-10 02:56:16 UTC
This is a great change. Thank you CCP! We can get back to where large fights were T1 battleships. game was great and only the elite brought out faction battleships. Buff battleships and HAC and take away extreme buffer T3 crusiers and we will have a pretty nice balanced game.
O2 jayjay
Tungsten Carbonide Asset Management
#166 - 2017-06-10 03:22:47 UTC  |  Edited by: O2 jayjay
NightmareX wrote:
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Really? It would be bad to let them be super expensive (if we're really calling a billion super-expensiveRoll)?

Objectively bad, or just bad for you?

Maybe poors should use something else for their "main" battleships?

Yes, going over a billion isk for a Pirate Battleship is expensive. I had a Vindicator some years ago that did cost 1.3 bill isk which was really expensive.

It would be bad for alot of us and not just me, even though alot of us isn't poor.


I had vindicators that were 1.3 bil per hull also. If they go back to 1.3 bil its no where near as expensive Like they were back then. First, there were no escalations from anoms. Second, after down time is when the russians and euros would fight for the 10/10. As you had to scan them down and they didnt respawn until downtime. So, if you wernt on after downtime, no 10/10's for you. Lastly, plex was 450mil. So a vindicator was almsot $60 compared to $20 if they were to reach 1.3bil today. I dont feel any pity because thats how I learned. I had to pay every month and wait for my skill que. Today yall can just kill inject if you want to fly something. Yall are spoiled but dont worry, This will make you stronger!
Sethyrh Nakrar
#167 - 2017-06-10 03:49:03 UTC
The problem with BS in general right now is, their ballance is a mess. Some are too expensive for what they can do(Scorpion Navy), some are realy specialized(Rokh), some where way too cheap(Machariel, Bhaalgorn) and some are now hillarious expensive(Barghest).
And then the ones, who are very strange(Typhoon).
Just increasing the ammount of minerals to build pirate-BS and lower the drops of their BPCs fixes nothing. It just messes everything more up. The navy-BS are in need of a re-work. Some of the T1 even more.

Praise the Omnissiah!

Karmen Baric
Doomheim
#168 - 2017-06-10 04:47:09 UTC
People play this game to have lots of ships they can fly around and nerfing the ability to afford those ships means some players will simply leave the game.

Bad move.
JC Mieyli
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#169 - 2017-06-10 05:56:58 UTC
Sethyrh Nakrar wrote:
The problem with BS in general right now is, their ballance is a mess. Some are too expensive for what they can do(Scorpion Navy), some are realy specialized(Rokh), some where way too cheap(Machariel, Bhaalgorn) and some are now hillarious expensive(Barghest).
And then the ones, who are very strange(Typhoon).
Just increasing the ammount of minerals to build pirate-BS and lower the drops of their BPCs fixes nothing. It just messes everything more up. The navy-BS are in need of a re-work. Some of the T1 even more.

like i said earlier it seems to me like the only bses in the right place are the pirate bses
id like to see all non-t2 bses rebalanced to be on same power levels as pirate bses
just give the pirate hulls a special pirate feature similar to mach warp speed or something
and then navy hulls can have a unique feature maybe you cant lose sec status and standings
and t1 are just as powerful just without the bonus features of the faction hulls
i think this will bring bses back into the meta for all players for all reasons
people might say they will be too powerful and kill small gang and small ship meta but
pirate bses already do that in their current state and who cares
small ships have had their fun killing larger metas for long enough imo
Kenrailae
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#170 - 2017-06-10 10:47:41 UTC
Karmen Baric wrote:
People play this game to have lots of ships they can fly around and nerfing the ability to afford those ships means some players will simply leave the game.

Bad move.



Eve isn't for everyone. Also bad is having ships which should require more investment, more 'risk for reward' be negligible on the 'risk' side, for a much larger reward.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

NextDarkKnight
Event Horizon Expeditionaries
The Watchmen.
#171 - 2017-06-10 11:44:29 UTC
So by changing the minerals does that make them somewhat insurable?
Ama Zing
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#172 - 2017-06-10 12:49:38 UTC
Hey Fozzie,

as this game is announced sandbox by CCP, what is your understanding of a sandbox?

As soon as there are market tendencies detected by you, you influence the market with the argument, that the market is manipulated by large entities! You shouldn't do that in a sandbox!

The more you do to "shield" the market, the more flexible the community responds. Do you really think, that an entitiy like the goons mine less with that rorqal **** over? Nope, because they can!

If you really think to nerf the Pirate BPC drops is going to influence, what ships are in future fleets, you are wrong again.
The playerbase will adapt as always.

Stop being a sandbox lawyer and let the game develop itself without being directed.
I know that you put a **** ton of work into this game and you have my respect for that. But influencing the game like you did with those last two patches, makes large entities even stronger and the smaller entities are not able to compete anymore.

If you want content, let the playerbase create it. If the vets stop playing, you can't do any "reverse engineering" to make them play again. Believe me!

cheers Ama Zing


Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
#173 - 2017-06-10 14:46:50 UTC
NextDarkKnight wrote:
So by changing the minerals does that make them somewhat insurable?


Depends on how much they get changed.
Elithiel en Gravonere
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#174 - 2017-06-10 16:13:58 UTC
I personally am very happy about the changes. For too long, the price of Rattlesnakes and other pirate battleships was far too low. Suppliers like me got out of that market because, Jita Traders were playing silly buggers with the market and what should be a very expensive ship was going for a price point below what it actually costs to collect the BPC alone...

Now hopefully this puts BPC suppliers like myself back in the market. I'd also like to see more use of T1 battleships instead of everything being pirate ones and this helps do that.
tasman devil
Puritans
We want your ISK
#175 - 2017-06-10 17:06:54 UTC  |  Edited by: tasman devil
CCP Fozzie wrote:
something something...
Obviously the price isn't the only balance concern about a ship group as prominent and diverse as pirate battleships, and other factors such as the strength of Upwell structure energy neutralization weapons contribute to the dominance of the Machariel in particular. However after giving this situation some thought internally and engaging in plenty of community discussion through venues such as Fanfest and the CSM, we agree that price should be the target of the first set of changes.

whatever whatever


If you have problem with Machs then why not address that in the first place?!? Like Finally getting to the point of Projectile weapons actually needing capacitor to fire?!?!



(while you are at it, the same could be said for the missile launchers too)

I don't belive in reincarnation I've never believed in it in my previous lives either...

Cartheron Crust
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#176 - 2017-06-10 18:31:51 UTC
tasman devil wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
something something...
Obviously the price isn't the only balance concern about a ship group as prominent and diverse as pirate battleships, and other factors such as the strength of Upwell structure energy neutralization weapons contribute to the dominance of the Machariel in particular. However after giving this situation some thought internally and engaging in plenty of community discussion through venues such as Fanfest and the CSM, we agree that price should be the target of the first set of changes.

whatever whatever


If you have problem with Machs then why not address that in the first place?!? Like Finally getting to the point of Projectile weapons actually needing capacitor to fire?!?!



(while you are at it, the same could be said for the missile launchers too)


WTF? No just no. Arrow
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#177 - 2017-06-11 01:39:12 UTC
Can you please also intervene in PLEX prices ? as they're too high so please lower them.
Evil
Spc One
The Chodak
Void Alliance
#178 - 2017-06-11 02:16:03 UTC
Ama Zing wrote:
As soon as there are market tendencies detected by you, you influence the market with the argument, that the market is manipulated by large entities! You shouldn't do that in a sandbox!

Exactly, players set the prices for all the items in game, ccp should not intervene.
Roll

If pirate battleships are too cheap, why is PLEX expenssive ?
Maybe ccp should intervene in PLEX prices so we get cheaper plex too.
Shinji Katsuragi
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#179 - 2017-06-11 02:52:28 UTC
If you want people to use other ships-MAKE THEM WORTH USING AND COST EFFECTIVE. Buff t1,t2, t3 ships
Kenrailae
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#180 - 2017-06-11 03:35:35 UTC
Shinji Katsuragi wrote:
If you want people to use other ships-MAKE THEM WORTH USING AND COST EFFECTIVE. Buff t1,t2, t3 ships




It's not a matter of buffing other ships.... it is a matter of putting the ships that have fallen out of balance back where they go, in this case mostly the pirate BS. Normal BS are 'supposed(loosely snowballing for market variance)' to sit around 200m give/take. Faction BS are supposed to sit around 500m, and pirate BS are supposed to sit around a bil, again, all of that being contingent on the specific swaying of the market. The problem is that the ships that were supposed to cost more but be better have mostly fallen way out of their target price range because of other changes that have made them much much much easier to acquire. When all of those are at/near their target price, then there are much more clear choices in the risk/reward scales.


Yeah, I could use a megathron. It's not quite as good as a Navy Thron, but still not bad and half the price. Gets the job done, a bit slower, but yeah, and if I die, it's not a huge ding on my wallet.

Or I could use the navy thron, a bit more expensive, but better stats and fitting, so I can get things done more quickly or survive longer. But, if I die, it's gonna hurt a bit more.


Or I have the Vindi. Great bonuses, will do this thing very well compared to the other two, buuuutttt..... it's pretty expensive..... I probably need to be really careful with it, cause if I lose it... yeah, it's gonna sting.

Then I have the Kronos.... whole 'nother can of worms.


That part of the risk/reward tree has completely evaporated, because up until a couple days ago, it was 'yeah vindi is 100m more and so much better. Buy Vindi.' If you just buff the other ships and leave the price trees how they are, there is still not going ot be any reason to really use 2 of the 3 ships, because 1 is going to be objectively better and cost about the same. By fixing the problems that have led to the collapse of the target price, you restore the value of 'worth using and cost effective.'

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal