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How many more players must we lose to bullying

First post
Author
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#141 - 2017-03-29 16:09:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Rroff
Vigirr wrote:

No you're trying to have conflict removed from your personal play style.


Mind you one way or another that can be applied to 99% of the people posting :s very few want an actual even playing field without the odds tipped in their favour.

If I had it my way I'd make is so that attacking parties in non-consensual PVP in highsec meant that for a certain duration (maybe not as long as the kill right lasts) they couldn't leave highsec, can't log off in a station or other structure they don't own and if they log off their pod and/or ship stays in space forcing the use of targettable POSes or aggressor corp owned citadels :O (or atleast means they'd have to accept getting their pod blown up).

(As a side effect this would also make the bounty system kind of work though potentially leave some players open to griefing if there wasn't some kind of cooldown period).
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#142 - 2017-03-29 16:25:12 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Zarek Kree wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Wardecs really are nothing more than the lowest risk pvp in the game. That's why they don't want wardecs to go anywhere.

You guys are wedged into your closed mindset, literally any attempt to address the reasons eve doesn't have wide popularity is met with 'GTFO, eve is not for you'.

Either remove wardecs or remove highsec so a new player at least knows what to expect on arrival.



Shall we remove highsec structures as well? Because you can't have one without the other. Any system that allows structures but doesn't allow wardecs would be so convoluted that the cure would be worse than the disease.


I'd personally be fine with structures being exempt from concord response, that pretty much removes the main need for wardecs in highsec.


Yes it would. But then nobody would be able to do industry of any kind in highsec because people would blow up structures at will. Most people (like the OP) who have concerns about the wardec system are industrialists who simply want to build in peace. But what you're proposing would force them into lowsec/nullsec, thus defeating the purpose. Like I said, the cure is worse than the disease.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#143 - 2017-03-29 16:32:16 UTC
Vigirr wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Vigirr wrote:
What you're saying is that you live in high sec and you don't make use of POS.


So? Aren't structures corporation level assets? I could have said, so what removing wars makes structures invincible and you'd have attacked me for that. I am trying to leave conflict in, when a group tries to take a step up from operating out of an NPC station.


No you're trying to have conflict removed from your personal play style.


No, I regularly take part in conflict in wormholes but I'm sure you will have another reason ready. My reason is to get more casual types logged into eve giving CCP money. I do understand that making structures perma vulnerable will affect some, but currently they can be wardecced and destroyed anyway. What the change does is preserve current structure gameplay.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.

Vigirr
#144 - 2017-03-29 16:57:54 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Vigirr wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Vigirr wrote:
What you're saying is that you live in high sec and you don't make use of POS.


So? Aren't structures corporation level assets? I could have said, so what removing wars makes structures invincible and you'd have attacked me for that. I am trying to leave conflict in, when a group tries to take a step up from operating out of an NPC station.


No you're trying to have conflict removed from your personal play style.


No, I regularly take part in conflict in wormholes but I'm sure you will have another reason ready. My reason is to get more casual types logged into eve giving CCP money. I do understand that making structures perma vulnerable will affect some, but currently they can be wardecced and destroyed anyway. What the change does is preserve current structure gameplay.


No one is buying your bullshit, apart from perhaps yourself.

Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#145 - 2017-03-29 17:10:01 UTC
Vigirr wrote:
No one is buying your bullshit, apart from perhaps yourself.


Like I said, closed minded. It's not most people's fault they want things easy. But as I've said many times, I don't want to change what eve is, only add something or somewhere that people don't feel constantly hunted. That is the experience of many in highsec, fitting to avoid ganks, using d-scan to check for hostiles, but still occasionally being ganked regardless. They are victims, whose existence is trying to prevent being victimised again, doesn't sound like a fun game. On the other hand, experienced eve players know null is where the real safety is, where you can carebear in peace. This leaves highsec as the lol-zone for stupid newbies who don't know concord don't protect them.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.

Vigirr
#146 - 2017-03-29 17:12:04 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Vigirr wrote:
No one is buying your bullshit, apart from perhaps yourself.


Like I said, closed minded. It's not most people's fault they want things easy. But as I've said many times, I don't want to change what eve is, only add something or somewhere that people don't feel constantly hunted. That is the experience of many in highsec, fitting to avoid ganks, using d-scan to check for hostiles, but still occasionally being ganked regardless. They are victims, whose existence is trying to prevent being victimised again, doesn't sound like a fun game. On the other hand, experienced eve players know null is where the real safety is, where you can carebear in peace. This leaves highsec as the lol-zone for stupid newbies who don't know concord don't protect them.


So by your own words high sec being far from ideal creates a push to null sec for the people who do put in effort, and acts like a stupid trap for the folks who are braindead zombies.

How is this bad?
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#147 - 2017-03-29 17:15:59 UTC
No thread on EVEO is complete without a post from dracvlad where he cries about the wreck ehp buff.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#148 - 2017-03-29 17:18:18 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Zarek Kree wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Wardecs really are nothing more than the lowest risk pvp in the game. That's why they don't want wardecs to go anywhere.

You guys are wedged into your closed mindset, literally any attempt to address the reasons eve doesn't have wide popularity is met with 'GTFO, eve is not for you'.

Either remove wardecs or remove highsec so a new player at least knows what to expect on arrival.



Shall we remove highsec structures as well? Because you can't have one without the other. Any system that allows structures but doesn't allow wardecs would be so convoluted that the cure would be worse than the disease.


I'd personally be fine with structures being exempt from concord response, that pretty much removes the main need for wardecs in highsec.

So I can shoot your structure but you can't shoot me shooting your structure? Good game design
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#149 - 2017-03-29 17:19:26 UTC
Vigirr wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Vigirr wrote:
No one is buying your bullshit, apart from perhaps yourself.


Like I said, closed minded. It's not most people's fault they want things easy. But as I've said many times, I don't want to change what eve is, only add something or somewhere that people don't feel constantly hunted. That is the experience of many in highsec, fitting to avoid ganks, using d-scan to check for hostiles, but still occasionally being ganked regardless. They are victims, whose existence is trying to prevent being victimised again, doesn't sound like a fun game. On the other hand, experienced eve players know null is where the real safety is, where you can carebear in peace. This leaves highsec as the lol-zone for stupid newbies who don't know concord don't protect them.


So by your own words high sec being far from ideal creates a push to null sec for the people who do put in effort, and acts like a stupid trap for the folks who are braindead zombies.

How is this bad?


If by put in effort you mean join an alliance and put in next to no personal effort then sure. If you can't see how a 'stupid trap for brain dead zombies' is bad for business then you have no hope. Imagine your favourite restaurant hiding steps all over the place, and all the regulars laughing at the newcomers tripping over. How many new customers will that restaurant attract? Sure, you can reason 'well if they looked they would have seen the step', but how does that help a person who has just fallen over. All it does is make you look like a jackass.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.

Kaely Tanniss
Black Lotus Society.
#150 - 2017-03-29 17:22:50 UTC
The real question is this:

If you stand in a war zone and get shot..are you a victim..or an idiot?

If you go to such a place, unprepared, fully aware of what it is and what can happen..then you are the latter.

There is no excuse for ignorance. There is no excuse for complacency. You can "wish" it wasn't a war zone all you want. You can complain about it and want it to change all you want. But, you have to realize that the word does not revolve around you and all the wishes, wants, and complaints don't mean Jack if you don't prepare yourself or take some form of personal responsibility. The solution is easy..but of course that requires some work..and what the whiners want isn't work..it's risk free isk generation. Not gonna happen. All the whining doesn't serve your purpose..it makes you a target. Remember, you may follow the philosophy that the squeaky wheel gets the grease..but the truth is, eventually, the squeaky wheel gets replaced.

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..

Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#151 - 2017-03-29 17:23:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Zarek Kree
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Like I said, closed minded. It's not most people's fault they want things easy. But as I've said many times, I don't want to change what eve is, only add something or somewhere that people don't feel constantly hunted. That is the experience of many in highsec, fitting to avoid ganks, using d-scan to check for hostiles, but still occasionally being ganked regardless. They are victims, whose existence is trying to prevent being victimised again, doesn't sound like a fun game. On the other hand, experienced eve players know null is where the real safety is, where you can carebear in peace. This leaves highsec as the lol-zone for stupid newbies who don't know concord don't protect them.



I get the sense that most people around here haven't been noobs for a very long time and are remembering the experience as being worse than it is. I've been around for less than a year, so I have fresh memories - and it hasn't been that bad. This "terror" and "victimization" that people keep referring to is simply non-existent in the day to day life of a noob. This bullying problem that people think is scaring away new blood never rises to level of being more than a nuisance.

What this is really about are old guys who want to move vast sums of isk around without danger - not newbros. You're free to take such a position, but stop saying ti's for the children because the vast majority of the children don't really care.
Vigirr
#152 - 2017-03-29 17:24:05 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Vigirr wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Vigirr wrote:
No one is buying your bullshit, apart from perhaps yourself.


Like I said, closed minded. It's not most people's fault they want things easy. But as I've said many times, I don't want to change what eve is, only add something or somewhere that people don't feel constantly hunted. That is the experience of many in highsec, fitting to avoid ganks, using d-scan to check for hostiles, but still occasionally being ganked regardless. They are victims, whose existence is trying to prevent being victimised again, doesn't sound like a fun game. On the other hand, experienced eve players know null is where the real safety is, where you can carebear in peace. This leaves highsec as the lol-zone for stupid newbies who don't know concord don't protect them.


So by your own words high sec being far from ideal creates a push to null sec for the people who do put in effort, and acts like a stupid trap for the folks who are braindead zombies.

How is this bad?


If by put in effort you mean join an alliance and put in next to no personal effort then sure. If you can't see how a 'stupid trap for brain dead zombies' is bad for business then you have no hope. Imagine your favourite restaurant hiding steps all over the place, and all the regulars laughing at the newcomers tripping over. How many new customers will that restaurant attract? Sure, you can reason 'well if they looked they would have seen the step', but how does that help a person who has just fallen over. All it does is make you look like a jackass.


Dunno, seems to me you're a high sec player who really doesn't like conflict where it actually affects your own play style and you're trying your very best to make it sounds as if you're this amazing Samaritan doing it for the betterment of the game.

I might be wrong but then, I rarely am.
Warrior AgainstEvil
Doomheim
#153 - 2017-03-29 17:33:57 UTC
What we need is a high sec alliance!

We can form with those who are like minded, use NRDS, and want to fight the evil that is out there. It could be a vast organized Alliance that holds a location in Null, has a Low Sec HQ, and can operate out of it to help defend our brothers and sisters. You may think sirs that I am mocking you. I am not! For too long those of you who are tired of the constant harassment have been pushed out of the game due to lack of hope. Against those experienced low sec pirates and their mercenary brethren you felt you had little to no hope for their constant attacks. But the answer is simple, just as CODE was formed to gank miners and freighters a new organization can be formed by those who wish to fight such practices.

They say it doesn't happen until you make it happen. OP this is what we must do! We must form a group of alliances to help defend our space in high sec space against those who would chose to harm us. Anti-Ganker groups would be most welcome allies, a special shared intel channel could be made, alliance channel that can be shared, and voice coms for major operations. We could operate much like Spectre as needed to form defense fleets, use whatever for fleet pings, and become so organized that high sec ganking would become a thing of the past to worry about. It would be glorious! The rise of high sec as a bastion of hope would allow new capsuleers from all over to partake in the vast economy, build ships, mine moons, and earn more profit then they could ever dream of.

I call on all of us to action! We can create a website like those who are evil have and live by their CODE, we will have our own code of ethics. We can call ourselves Warriors of the Light, or WoL. The purpose of the WoL is to create new content that is fair for our fellow new EVE players, get them into fleets sooner, and teach them the basics and more intermediate aspects of anti-pirate and anti-ganking tactics. Enough with the forum posts of the unfairness, if they will not listen then we will make them listen! They will fear us and respect us at the same time as we mine in peace, build our ships, and form our own fleets to harass them for once! We can carve a legacy of peace by force and our fight would be endless but necessary to counter such practices.

We must act instead of waiting for CCP or others to act.
Kaely Tanniss
Black Lotus Society.
#154 - 2017-03-29 17:38:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaely Tanniss
Warrior AgainstEvil wrote:
What we need is a high sec alliance!

We can form with those who are like minded, use NRDS, and want to fight the evil that is out there. It could be a vast organized Alliance that holds a location in Null, has a Low Sec HQ, and can operate out of it to help defend our brothers and sisters. You may think sirs that I am mocking you. I am not! For too long those of you who are tired of the constant harassment have been pushed out of the game due to lack of hope. Against those experienced low sec pirates and their mercenary brethren you felt you had little to no hope for their constant attacks. But the answer is simple, just as CODE was formed to gank miners and freighters a new organization can be formed by those who wish to fight such practices.

They say it doesn't happen until you make it happen. OP this is what we must do! We must form a group of alliances to help defend our space in high sec space against those who would chose to harm us. Anti-Ganker groups would be most welcome allies, a special shared intel channel could be made, alliance channel that can be shared, and voice coms for major operations. We could operate much like Spectre as needed to form defense fleets, use whatever for fleet pings, and become so organized that high sec ganking would become a thing of the past to worry about. It would be glorious! The rise of high sec as a bastion of hope would allow new capsuleers from all over to partake in the vast economy, build ships, mine moons, and earn more profit then they could ever dream of.

I call on all of us to action! We can create a website like those who are evil have and live by their CODE, we will have our own code of ethics. We can call ourselves Warriors of the Light, or WoL. The purpose of the WoL is to create new content that is fair for our fellow new EVE players, get them into fleets sooner, and teach them the basics and more intermediate aspects of anti-pirate and anti-ganking tactics. Enough with the forum posts of the unfairness, if they will not listen then we will make them listen! They will fear us and respect us at the same time as we mine in peace, build our ships, and form our own fleets to harass them for once! We can carve a legacy of peace by force and our fight would be endless but necessary to counter such practices.

We must act instead of waiting for CCP or others to act.


Surely this is a failed attempt at a troll post..one cannot be this genuinely naive Roll

+1 entertainment value though...

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..

Vigirr
#155 - 2017-03-29 17:38:23 UTC
Warrior AgainstEvil wrote:
What we need is a high sec alliance!

We can form with those who are like minded, use NRDS, and want to fight the evil that is out there. It could be a vast organized Alliance that holds a location in Null, has a Low Sec HQ, and can operate out of it to help defend our brothers and sisters. You may think sirs that I am mocking you. I am not! For too long those of you who are tired of the constant harassment have been pushed out of the game due to lack of hope. Against those experienced low sec pirates and their mercenary brethren you felt you had little to no hope for their constant attacks. But the answer is simple, just as CODE was formed to gank miners and freighters a new organization can be formed by those who wish to fight such practices.

They say it doesn't happen until you make it happen. OP this is what we must do! We must form a group of alliances to help defend our space in high sec space against those who would chose to harm us. Anti-Ganker groups would be most welcome allies, a special shared intel channel could be made, alliance channel that can be shared, and voice coms for major operations. We could operate much like Spectre as needed to form defense fleets, use whatever for fleet pings, and become so organized that high sec ganking would become a thing of the past to worry about. It would be glorious! The rise of high sec as a bastion of hope would allow new capsuleers from all over to partake in the vast economy, build ships, mine moons, and earn more profit then they could ever dream of.

I call on all of us to action! We can create a website like those who are evil have and live by their CODE, we will have our own code of ethics. We can call ourselves Warriors of the Light, or WoL. The purpose of the WoL is to create new content that is fair for our fellow new EVE players, get them into fleets sooner, and teach them the basics and more intermediate aspects of anti-pirate and anti-ganking tactics. Enough with the forum posts of the unfairness, if they will not listen then we will make them listen! They will fear us and respect us at the same time as we mine in peace, build our ships, and form our own fleets to harass them for once! We can carve a legacy of peace by force and our fight would be endless but necessary to counter such practices.

We must act instead of waiting for CCP or others to act.


So... what's stopping you.
Kaely Tanniss
Black Lotus Society.
#156 - 2017-03-29 17:42:30 UTC
Vigirr wrote:
Warrior AgainstEvil wrote:
What we need is a high sec alliance!

We can form with those who are like minded, use NRDS, and want to fight the evil that is out there. It could be a vast organized Alliance that holds a location in Null, has a Low Sec HQ, and can operate out of it to help defend our brothers and sisters. You may think sirs that I am mocking you. I am not! For too long those of you who are tired of the constant harassment have been pushed out of the game due to lack of hope. Against those experienced low sec pirates and their mercenary brethren you felt you had little to no hope for their constant attacks. But the answer is simple, just as CODE was formed to gank miners and freighters a new organization can be formed by those who wish to fight such practices.

They say it doesn't happen until you make it happen. OP this is what we must do! We must form a group of alliances to help defend our space in high sec space against those who would chose to harm us. Anti-Ganker groups would be most welcome allies, a special shared intel channel could be made, alliance channel that can be shared, and voice coms for major operations. We could operate much like Spectre as needed to form defense fleets, use whatever for fleet pings, and become so organized that high sec ganking would become a thing of the past to worry about. It would be glorious! The rise of high sec as a bastion of hope would allow new capsuleers from all over to partake in the vast economy, build ships, mine moons, and earn more profit then they could ever dream of.

I call on all of us to action! We can create a website like those who are evil have and live by their CODE, we will have our own code of ethics. We can call ourselves Warriors of the Light, or WoL. The purpose of the WoL is to create new content that is fair for our fellow new EVE players, get them into fleets sooner, and teach them the basics and more intermediate aspects of anti-pirate and anti-ganking tactics. Enough with the forum posts of the unfairness, if they will not listen then we will make them listen! They will fear us and respect us at the same time as we mine in peace, build our ships, and form our own fleets to harass them for once! We can carve a legacy of peace by force and our fight would be endless but necessary to counter such practices.

We must act instead of waiting for CCP or others to act.


So... what's stopping you.


That takes work..something they obviously don't want to do. Effort is not something they want to put forward..if they did, this wouldn't be an issue to begin with. They think it's better to cry out and expect everyone else to "feel their pain" and do it for them. Somehow they think they are entitled to their way..they are not..what you ARE entitled to is to log in..after that, you're ours Twisted

If I had a nickel for every time someone said women don't play eve, I'd have a bag of nickels to whack the next person who said it..

Keno Skir
#157 - 2017-03-29 17:52:30 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Vigirr wrote:
What you're saying is that you live in high sec and you don't make use of POS.


So? Aren't structures corporation level assets? I could have said, so what removing wars makes structures invincible and you'd have attacked me for that. I am trying to leave conflict in, when a group tries to take a step up from operating out of an NPC station.


But if you don't need structures why are you in a player corp? Being in a player corp being quite obviously an invite to be tested on how well you can protect your assets.
Keno Skir
#158 - 2017-03-29 17:59:14 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Like I said, closed minded. It's not most people's fault they want things easy. But as I've said many times, I don't want to change what eve is, only add something or somewhere that people don't feel constantly hunted. That is the experience of many in highsec, fitting to avoid ganks, using d-scan to check for hostiles, but still occasionally being ganked regardless. They are victims, whose existence is trying to prevent being victimised again, doesn't sound like a fun game. On the other hand, experienced eve players know null is where the real safety is, where you can carebear in peace. This leaves highsec as the lol-zone for stupid newbies who don't know concord don't protect them.



I get the sense that most people around here haven't been noobs for a very long time and are remembering the experience as being worse than it is. I've been around for less than a year, so I have fresh memories - and it hasn't been that bad. This "terror" and "victimization" that people keep referring to is simply non-existent in the day to day life of a noob. This bullying problem that people think is scaring away new blood never raises to level of being more than a nuisance.

What this is really about are old guys who want to move vast sums of isk around without danger - not newbros. You're free to take such a position, but stop saying ti's for the children because the children don't really care.


Not empty quoting Pirate
Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#159 - 2017-03-29 18:02:11 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:

So I can shoot your structure but you can't shoot me shooting your structure? Good game design


It is good game design because now battle badgers have a purpose again.
Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#160 - 2017-03-29 18:03:01 UTC
I wish OP was still posting so I could ask him if he thought the problem was CCP and their special snowflakes UghSad