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How many more players must we lose to bullying

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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#881 - 2017-04-04 15:50:15 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
I get the impression that you are arguing with yourself here, keep it up.

Yes, manly because you are out of arguments for a couple of responses now. I just tried to explain to you some basic concepts.

Anyway, I accept that you have trouble admitting defeat like always, so I just count that as a win for me and another loss for AG. As usual.

Evil RatKid
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#882 - 2017-04-04 15:53:07 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Still waiting for that list of AG nerfs Drac


Dom why have you decided that I have to supply you with a list of nerfs?

Because ai know you can't fulfill that task Cool

I'm out


I have in other threads listed all the nerfs and buffs and change in policy, I had an excahnge with Shae on this where I pointed out that a count and saying the number of adjustments matter more than what was adjusted was stupid, which happens to be one of the most liked comments I have done. Do you want to go down that route, I rather like you, but seriously mate I am not going to give that list unless I want to make a point about game balance in terms of ganking to people who are open to debate rather than call names and stuff, or make one liners and stuff like that. I much prefer making dank ISK and am only replying while I salvage...


Troll on then

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#883 - 2017-04-04 15:53:16 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
I believe if the rewards were limited appropriately,


The correct weight of any awards received for no risk taken is exactly zero. Safety = zero risk = zero reward.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#884 - 2017-04-04 16:05:31 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
I believe if the rewards were limited appropriately,


The correct weight of any awards received for no risk taken is exactly zero. Safety = zero risk = zero reward.


in fact we do have places in the game where you have zero risk, AND can still make some isk.
they are called stations, you can remain inside them with impunity for as long as you want, and you can even still make isk, either through station trading, or project discovery.

on top of that there are the newbie systems where ganking is prohibited, sure you might still be at risk for wardecs, but you could mine there all day long and not have to worry much about gankers. now sure, a ganker might be able to get away with it if you are an older character using the system as a shield. but since characters can be sold, I don't think many of them would take that risk.

so the "safe" systems. already exist in game, they just don't like them because the rewards aren't good enough for them.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#885 - 2017-04-04 16:07:58 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
I believe if the rewards were limited appropriately,


The correct weight of any awards received for no risk taken is exactly zero. Safety = zero risk = zero reward.


in fact we do have places in the game where you have zero risk, AND can still make some isk.
they are called stations, you can remain inside them with impunity for as long as you want, and you can even still make isk, either through station trading, or project discovery.


The risk in stations is losing your isk. That's risk.

Project discovery a special case, and the only allowable special case IMO.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#886 - 2017-04-04 16:08:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
I believe if the rewards were limited appropriately,


The correct weight of any awards received for no risk taken is exactly zero. Safety = zero risk = zero reward.


in fact we do have places in the game where you have zero risk, AND can still make some isk.
they are called stations, you can remain inside them with impunity for as long as you want, and you can even still make isk, either through station trading, or project discovery.

on top of that there are the newbie systems where ganking is prohibited, sure you might still be at risk for wardecs, but you could mine there all day long and not have to worry much about gankers. now sure, a ganker might be able to get away with it if you are an older character using the system as a shield. but since characters can be sold, I don't think many of them would take that risk.

so the "safe" systems. already exist in game, they just don't like them because the rewards aren't good enough for them.


Starter systems are the exception, and only new players are protected there. Station trading is not. That kind of trading is not risk free. Putting up isk is a risk.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Sasha Nemtsov
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#887 - 2017-04-04 16:18:16 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
I believe if the rewards were limited appropriately, it would be clear that the meat of the game was outside that area and people would go there willing to learn from the locals.

....In the same manner that the 'meat' of Nullsec ore harvesting was meant to draw the 80+% of players who start in Highsec and never leave?

Or the way the introduction of Factional Warfare in Lowsec was meant to encourage those same 80+% of players thither to dip their toes into PvP?

It won't work, Mr Mieyli. Your ideas are not at all original, and that's one of the reasons you're being roundly slapped down here. A few minutes' work would avail you of all the information you needed to withdraw your hands from your keyboard and admit that you were beaten.

But you won't do it, because you're one of those folks who: "I feel so strongly about this; I must be right!" The rest of us, mature enough to accept that we're sometimes mistaken, and taking appropriate action, back off and learn a better way.

I've read what has gone before. You are another of those soap-box posters who brook no interruption, for whom every cogent argument proposed by an opponent is dismissed out of hand whether supported by evidence or not. Ultimately you are doomed to trot out the same inane ideas until you've quite exhausted yourself; or until your excitable nature allows you the leisure to reflect upon this experience, and to learn from it.

Think before you speak; look before you post...

minerbumping

New Order Audio Archive

NEW! MinerBumping Video Vault
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#888 - 2017-04-04 16:23:20 UTC
Since everybody kinda like RL.

In RL every interaction between individuals doesnt
end up with someone losing everything they have
and waking up naked at home.

It sure would be nice to have an option to cowardly
run away from a fight (like IRL).

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#889 - 2017-04-04 16:24:21 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
I get the impression that you are arguing with yourself here, keep it up.

Yes, manly because you are out of arguments for a couple of responses now. I just tried to explain to you some basic concepts.

Anyway, I accept that you have trouble admitting defeat like always, so I just count that as a win for me and another loss for AG. As usual.


Admit defeat on what, you are arguing with yourself on this. The risk is the players in Eve, and the risk and reward is based on that. Perhaps due to you and others like you, hisec should have increased rewards? Twisted

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#890 - 2017-04-04 16:26:51 UTC
Dom Arkaral wrote:
Troll on then


I have an opinion, a point of view, that bumping makes freighter ganking too easy and a very stale gameplay, if you think that is trolling more fool you.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#891 - 2017-04-04 16:37:42 UTC
Trasch Taranogas wrote:

It sure would be nice to have an option to cowardly
run away from a fight (like IRL).


Have you tried warping away? works for me.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#892 - 2017-04-04 16:38:48 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Admit defeat on what, you are arguing with yourself on this. The risk is the players in Eve, and the risk and reward is based on that. Perhaps due to you and others like you, hisec should have increased rewards? Twisted

That's where you are wrong. The risk in the risk/reward metric is not the players but the game mechanics of the space in question which allows for certain player interaction. Pretty obvious...

Evil RatKid
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp
Goonswarm Federation
#893 - 2017-04-04 16:41:57 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
.................. I do sincerely believe that ganking in highsec puts off players who have done no pvp themselves. .................


Here - this is it......

Players who undock are choosing to engage in PvP.

There are many who also engage in PvP without even undocking!

People who get ganked have chosen to put themselves in EVE space as a target.

It doesn't matter what a player chooses to do - every single action they can undertake, even when playing 'solo' impacts the EVE universe (market/economy) - thus engaging in PvP.

And, somewhat sadly I'll admit for I do understand where you're coming from, then if a player doesn't want to engage in PvP - then EVE is not the 'game' for them.

Many, many, other entertainment mediums exist for people who don't want to actually play a true game. For me, and others, however, EVE is all there is - there is nothing else like it.

So - we're kind of protective - because we have no other choice. CCP are the only company who, currently, cater to those of us who truly game.

Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#894 - 2017-04-04 16:47:41 UTC
Marcus Tedric wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
.................. I do sincerely believe that ganking in highsec puts off players who have done no pvp themselves. .................


Here - this is it......

Players who undock are choosing to engage in PvP.

There are many who also engage in PvP without even undocking!

People who get ganked have chosen to put themselves in EVE space as a target.

It doesn't matter what a player chooses to do - every single action they can undertake, even when playing 'solo' impacts the EVE universe (market/economy) - thus engaging in PvP.

And, somewhat sadly I'll admit for I do understand where you're coming from, then if a player doesn't want to engage in PvP - then EVE is not the 'game' for them.

Many, many, other entertainment mediums exist for people who don't want to actually play a true game. For me, and others, however, EVE is all there is - there is nothing else like it.

So - we're kind of protective - because we have no other choice. CCP are the only company who, currently, cater to those of us who truly game.


+1

There is another Irony here though. Most of the people who complain about how EVE is wouldn't play EVE if it were like they say they wanted it. The need something to complain about, and if it became this safe haven where all the 'griefer' types left the white knights whose entire self image revolves around opposing the 'bad people' would F off too lol.

That's a thing I find irritating, they aren't honest enough with themselves to admit this. I know that I (as a pve minded player) need these folks...because making them explode after they try to kill me while ratting (like I did last night) makes the game WAY sweeter than just getting isk from anomalies and loot from DEDs do. I recognize how vital people like that are , and make no mistake, a null sec hot dropper is just the spiritual cousin of a high sec wardeccer or ganker.

They (the hippie white knights) think they want peace and comfort when what they really need is challenge.
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#895 - 2017-04-04 16:47:42 UTC
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:

It sure would be nice to have an option to cowardly
run away from a fight (like IRL).


Have you tried warping away? works for me.


Yep.Too slow. Fight is usually over after I try find my
buttons on the keyboard.

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
Mister Tuggles
Dickhead Corner
#896 - 2017-04-04 16:50:56 UTC
Mister Tuggles wrote:
There should be severe consequences for attacking and destroying non-war targets in high sec.

Instant drop to -10 security status, and a 2-3 second warp delay for all ships while at -10. Old school Ultima online had severe penalties to stats for "going red". Eve should as well.

The warp speed delay would only be applied in high sec.


Putting this back in here as it would be a VERY viable way of negating the massive amounts of suicide ganks that go on these days. Would force people to rely on highsec war deccing.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#897 - 2017-04-04 16:53:53 UTC
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:

It sure would be nice to have an option to cowardly
run away from a fight (like IRL).


Have you tried warping away? works for me.


Yep.Too slow. Fight is usually over after I try find my
buttons on the keyboard.
Have you tried not being there when they land?


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Zanar Skwigelf
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#898 - 2017-04-04 16:57:11 UTC
Mister Tuggles wrote:
Mister Tuggles wrote:
There should be severe consequences for attacking and destroying non-war targets in high sec.

Instant drop to -10 security status, and a 2-3 second warp delay for all ships while at -10. Old school Ultima online had severe penalties to stats for "going red". Eve should as well.

The warp speed delay would only be applied in high sec.


Putting this back in here as it would be a VERY viable way of negating the massive amounts of suicide ganks that go on these days. Would force people to rely on highsec war deccing.


TBH I don't see how this changes anything. a lot of gankers are already -10, and while the 2-3 second delay in warp might get them caught be NPC police, if they group together they can still get ships to the target.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#899 - 2017-04-04 16:59:20 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

They (the hippie white knights) think they want peace and comfort when what they really need is challenge.
Can you show us on the doll where the bad liberal touched you?

Mr Epeen Cool
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#900 - 2017-04-04 17:00:12 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:
Zanar Skwigelf wrote:
Trasch Taranogas wrote:

It sure would be nice to have an option to cowardly
run away from a fight (like IRL).


Have you tried warping away? works for me.


Yep.Too slow. Fight is usually over after I try find my
buttons on the keyboard.
Have you tried not being there when they land?




Well. I explore in WH and null so I kinda expect losses. I was thinking more
of a solution to OP about CCP not losing new players to bullying.

Eve could feel very unfair until you learn every aspect of it.

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.