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How many more players must we lose to bullying

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#661 - 2017-04-03 14:13:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Verlyn wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Highsec players with no intent to pvp are victimised by eves mechanics.



Bullshit.

They first victimised by themseves wanting that 100% comfy carebear space so bad in a space that cannot, and WILL NOT, provide it to them.

Sorry.

Door's that way.


+1

How can someone be 'victimized' by a consensual experience THEY consented to.

I mean, unless someone forced them to D/L EVE Online at gun point and told them "you will be a defenseless carebear in a game that lets you shoot anyone you want, or I'll shoot you", they aren't a victim of anything.

It just goes to show you that in rich Western countries (where most EVE players come from), victims are born, not made.
Verlyn
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#662 - 2017-04-03 14:15:49 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:
So....have people finished having the exact same argument thats been going back and forth for over a decade yet?

At its heart this argument is and always has been about two opposing viewpoints, some people think they shouldn't have to have what they perceive as limits placed on their game play by other players and some people think they should be able to play the game in the way they feel it has been put forward by the developers without having to care about what anyone else thinks.

Personally I come down more on the pro ganking side, simply because I agree with the argument that what the developers have always said they intended the game to be is more important than a few players slightly bruised feelings, however I can understand the reasoning behind the other sides arguments even if i dont agree with it.

Of course the situation isnt helped when theres a substantial part of both sides that arent interested in actually having a discussion and just prefer to troll threads by spouting hyperbole, arguing in bad faith and refusing to even try and understand the opposing viewpoints. I'm also going to reserve a special hell for those idiots who play the 'If you act badly in a game then you're a bad person in real life' card, because not only is it a bullshit argument in the first place but its chronically missing the point.

I know this post isn't going to change anything and likely as not I'll be reading a whole new iteration of the same damn thing in a few weeks anyway but i felt it had to be said.


While a kiddies point of view is all well and understood, it still don't make one fart of difference inside Eve.
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#663 - 2017-04-03 14:16:12 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Darek Castigatus wrote:


At its heart this argument is and always has been about two opposing viewpoints, some people think they shouldn't have to have what they perceive as limits placed on their game play by other players and some people think they should be able to play the game in the way they feel it has been put forward by the developers without having to care about what anyone else thinks.


That sums it up well. The problem is that one side in demonstrably right and the other on lives in a world of fantasy and unreasonable personal preferences. One side adapted to how EVE is on day one and has been mostly happy since then, and the other side has complained about how EVE is since day one and been very unhappy (rather than just stopping themselves from playing a game they fundamentally don't like..

Why should people who are right (and sane) "try to understand" people are provably wrong (and could probably use some mental health care services to help them stop torturing themselves with video games they hate)?


Because it then makes it easier to convince them of that, assuming of course they are arguing in good faith in the first place which is where the troll issue comes in again. Perhaps I'm giving people too much credit here but I also think its simple good manners to show that you can understand someones viewpoint even if you disagree with it and are going to try and convince them to take up yours instead.

Im not blaming you specifically for this or saying you shouldnt argue your case but polarising the discussion by not caring about the other side simply results in the same back and forth bullshit where people pay zero attention to what the other person is saying unless they can use it to score some petty 'gotcha' point. It achieves nothing and to be honest we've seen it for far too damn long now.

Pirates - The Invisible Fist of Darwin

you're welcome
Chris Ishar
Digital Zone Corp
#664 - 2017-04-03 14:22:37 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
No they decide to victimise themselves.


It's spelled victimize. Like in "No, raped women decide to victimize themselves".

The posts are way out of line and don't bring anything useful to the discussion. How many people decided to leave EVE Online because the toxic posts? No idea. But a lot read about 20 posts an understand the futility of posting and leave the forums to the twenty to thirty people of around 30k active online 'players'. None of this comes close to representing the problems arising for new players.

The game is divided in different area types (PVE with consensual PVP, PVE with non consensual PVP and true PVP zones). If people can't even grasp that and believe it's a PVP game like "Counter strike" they just explained to new players that the conversational level here is that of the average 12 year old yelling through his Xbox headset. And that is killing the game. People hear about "the game for intellectuals" and find a bunch of annoying kids posting nonsense in the forums. Sad and unappealing.

Anyways, git gut and troll hard on the forums. Get new players to like dumb e-peen conversations. Watch how they read this tread and find the solutions against the bullying.

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#665 - 2017-04-03 14:23:11 UTC
Verlyn wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Highsec players with no intent to pvp are victimised by eves mechanics.



Bullshit.

They first victimised by themseves wanting that 100% comfy carebear space so bad in a space that cannot, and WILL NOT, provide it to them.

Sorry.

Door's that way.

Id rather see the game burning itself down to the ground as is than becoming yet another kiddie's playground.

Actually the majority didn't. The majority of them read a review or signed up for a free trial found out the games full of little bitches too afraid of PvP who decided to stay in the baby pond with a bunch of other lil bitchrs nd shoot ships that have no hope of retaliating. They then decided not to sign up.

Ironically you are burning it down. CCP misses out on cash and that cash isn't being used to make nice new toys or buy new hardware.

There are 8000 systems where you can fight actual players, not 20 second fights where you burn down a helpless ship before dying to invulnerable NPCs, fights that make your hands shake and fights that when you win give you a big sense of satisfaction and enjoyment.

Should try that out one day I can assure you its fun.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#666 - 2017-04-03 14:25:51 UTC
Darek Castigatus wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Darek Castigatus wrote:


At its heart this argument is and always has been about two opposing viewpoints, some people think they shouldn't have to have what they perceive as limits placed on their game play by other players and some people think they should be able to play the game in the way they feel it has been put forward by the developers without having to care about what anyone else thinks.


That sums it up well. The problem is that one side in demonstrably right and the other on lives in a world of fantasy and unreasonable personal preferences. One side adapted to how EVE is on day one and has been mostly happy since then, and the other side has complained about how EVE is since day one and been very unhappy (rather than just stopping themselves from playing a game they fundamentally don't like..

Why should people who are right (and sane) "try to understand" people are provably wrong (and could probably use some mental health care services to help them stop torturing themselves with video games they hate)?


Because it then makes it easier to convince them of that, assuming of course they are arguing in good faith in the first place which is where the troll issue comes in again. Perhaps I'm giving people too much credit here but I also think its simple good manners to show that you can understand someones viewpoint even if you disagree with it and are going to try and convince them to take up yours instead.

Im not blaming you specifically for this or saying you shouldnt argue your case but polarising the discussion by not caring about the other side simply results in the same back and forth bullshit where people pay zero attention to what the other person is saying unless they can use it to score some petty 'gotcha' point. It achieves nothing and to be honest we've seen it for far too damn long now.


You are giving way too much credit, in thinking that it can ever be different.

It can't, as soon as anyone presents any kind of evidence of something, no matter how well presented, the human mind will rebel and even backfire.

I gave up trying to convince people of anything years ago. The simple fact is that I know that the truth does actually penetrate into people's skulls even when they cannot acknowledge it publicly for fear of losing face. When you see these kinds of people (whether online or in person) start to stutter, grasp for stupid ideas and basically start to lose their ****, you know you are hitting home and their reactions are a pain response. Responding to a pain of their own making because they don't want to acknowledge something they deep down know is true.

In other words , I get no satisfaction at all from seeing innocent or well meaning people suffer (this is why I'm not a gank type in EVE, nothing wrong with it as it's within rules of the game but I don't gain any joy from the reaction), but I live to watch liars and selfish people squirm and lose their minds, and that happens every day on this forum. Telling a liar the truth is like locking a vampire in a tanning booth.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#667 - 2017-04-03 14:26:56 UTC
Chris Ishar wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
No they decide to victimise themselves.


It's spelled victimize. Like in "No, raped women decide to victimize themselves".

The posts are way out of line and don't bring anything useful to the discussion. How many people decided to leave EVE Online because the toxic posts? No idea. But a lot read about 20 posts an understand the futility of posting and leave the forums to the twenty to thirty people of around 30k active online 'players'. None of this comes close to representing the problems arising for new players.

The game is divided in different area types (PVE with consensual PVP, PVE with non consensual PVP and true PVP zones). If people can't even grasp that and believe it's a PVP game like "Counter strike" they just explained to new players that the conversational level here is that of the average 12 year old yelling through his Xbox headset. And that is killing the game. People hear about "the game for intellectuals" and find a bunch of annoying kids posting nonsense in the forums. Sad and unappealing.

Anyways, git gut and troll hard on the forums. Get new players to like dumb e-peen conversations. Watch how they read this tread and find the solutions against the bullying.



What freaking planet if this guy from?
Chris Ishar
Digital Zone Corp
#668 - 2017-04-03 14:28:03 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
What freaking planet if this guy from?

Earth.

Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#669 - 2017-04-03 14:32:17 UTC
Chris Ishar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
What freaking planet if this guy from?

Earth.



Confirmation that Earth is screwed then.

There is no consensual only pvp zone in EVE. That is why people are on here complaining. If CCP wanted consensual only pvp, WHY do they let you shoot at people in high sec? Why not just make guns shut off or not shoot real players in high sec?
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#670 - 2017-04-03 14:33:35 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:

It just goes to show you that in rich Western countries (where most EVE players come from), victims are born, not made.
Wishful thinking or alternate facts?

Either way, you have no data to support that. The last demographics by country that I can remember were compiled by Akita T back in 2008. They put western players at about a third of the population.

Just sayin'

Mr Epeen Cool
Dom Arkaral
Bannheim
Cuttlefish Collective
#671 - 2017-04-03 14:38:07 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Chris Ishar wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
What freaking planet if this guy from?

Earth.



Confirmation that Earth is screwed then.

There is no consensual only pvp zone in EVE. That is why people are on here complaining. If CCP wanted consensual only pvp, WHY do they let you shoot at people in high sec? Why not just make guns shut off or not shoot real players in high sec?

Confirming that the Earth is screwed and that the only zone in EVE is the Surprise Buttsecks zone :D

Tear Gatherer. Quebecker. Has no Honer. Salt Harvester.

Broadcast 4 Reps -- YOU ARE NOT ALONE, EVER

Instigator of the First ISD Thunderdome

CCL Loyalist
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#672 - 2017-04-03 14:38:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The people that pvp are not the ones the have and still do demand the removal of other people's gameplay and content.


That's your opinion man, I say that at times the gameplay / content I want IS removed by gankers. Whenever someone says "I just want to be left in peace" is an example of their content being removed by someone else. It's all viewpoints.


There is a very real difference between you choosing to not do something because you fear other players and people not being able to do something because the mechanics were changed to make it impossible.

This is another valid point.

The fact is you're painting one side with your tarry brush and ignoring your own whining.

When I created the biggest war dec alliance in EvE who was it that whined and moaned for a year or more to get it nerfed because highsec was "too dangerous"? Null alliances.

When Goons found out about mobile siphon units who was it that whined and moaned to have mechanics changed.

When people started to blow up gank wrecks who was it that whined and moaned to have them buffed?

In my experience the whining and moaning from null, especially from your old alliancr s dear leader made any complaining from high like white noise in comparison.

Everyone, regardless of their supposed status whined and moaned from 2003 until now. They will continue to whine and moan so let's do away with the hypocrisy.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#673 - 2017-04-03 14:41:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Mr Epeen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

It just goes to show you that in rich Western countries (where most EVE players come from), victims are born, not made.
Wishful thinking or alternate facts?

Either way, you have no data to support that. The last demographics by country that I can remember were compiled by Akita T back in 2008. They put western players at about a third of the population.

Just sayin'

Mr Epeen Cool


You must be getting old and having the fuzzy memory then:

https://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=782711

Most players are from the West. Meaning Western Europe and North America. If you're going to nitpick, at least get it right perhaps?
Verlyn
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#674 - 2017-04-03 14:43:47 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Verlyn wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Highsec players with no intent to pvp are victimised by eves mechanics.



Bullshit.

They first victimised by themseves wanting that 100% comfy carebear space so bad in a space that cannot, and WILL NOT, provide it to them.

Sorry.

Door's that way.

Id rather see the game burning itself down to the ground as is than becoming yet another kiddie's playground.

Actually the majority didn't. The majority of them read a review or signed up for a free trial found out the games full of little bitches too afraid of PvP who decided to stay in the baby pond with a bunch of other lil bitchrs nd shoot ships that have no hope of retaliating. They then decided not to sign up.

Ironically you are burning it down. CCP misses out on cash and that cash isn't being used to make nice new toys or buy new hardware.

There are 8000 systems where you can fight actual players, not 20 second fights where you burn down a helpless ship before dying to invulnerable NPCs, fights that make your hands shake and fights that when you win give you a big sense of satisfaction and enjoyment.

Should try that out one day I can assure you its fun.


Lol, yea, like a handful of butthurt "victims" were really going to affect CCP's finances and business model on the long run, or ever did hurt it for more than 10 years...

Cry me a river.

And also, before assuming ****, might I invite you to:

Zkillboard

You might actually learn so many wonderous things about yourself there.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#675 - 2017-04-03 14:45:34 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

It just goes to show you that in rich Western countries (where most EVE players come from), victims are born, not made.
Wishful thinking or alternate facts?

Either way, you have no data to support that. The last demographics by country that I can remember were compiled by Akita T back in 2008. They put western players at about a third of the population.

Just sayin'

Mr Epeen Cool

For Jenn alternative facts are facts and everyone else's facts are alternative.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#676 - 2017-04-03 14:47:44 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

It just goes to show you that in rich Western countries (where most EVE players come from), victims are born, not made.
Wishful thinking or alternate facts?

Either way, you have no data to support that. The last demographics by country that I can remember were compiled by Akita T back in 2008. They put western players at about a third of the population.

Just sayin'

Mr Epeen Cool


You must be getting old and having the fuzzy memory then:

https://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=782711

Most players are from the West. Meaning Western Europe and North America. If you're going to nitpick, at least get it right perhaps?
I guess I shouldn't have opened that can of worms. Western countries/culture is so ambiguous and has so many definitions and differing contexts that it is essentially meaningless as a generic term.

Mr Epeen Cool
Alexander Bor
Polaris Global
#677 - 2017-04-03 14:47:46 UTC
I support the topic-starter.

But it could be like CCP want all this sh*t going on. For many players game have became borring. If CCP wants industrialists and non-PVP corporations to lose their ships then why don't they introduce ships aging or smth like that but not making all this sh*t that they've brought into gameplay.
Trasch Taranogas
State War Academy
Caldari State
#678 - 2017-04-03 14:48:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Trasch Taranogas
Dare to say no to buttsecks.

#idontwannabeavictimanymore

If you always stay ready you don't have to get ready.
Alysse TheRouge
TheRouge Corp
#679 - 2017-04-03 14:49:33 UTC
Are we talking about the red pill vs the blue one...? Just asking.
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#680 - 2017-04-03 14:50:19 UTC
Verlyn wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Verlyn wrote:
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Highsec players with no intent to pvp are victimised by eves mechanics.



Bullshit.

They first victimised by themseves wanting that 100% comfy carebear space so bad in a space that cannot, and WILL NOT, provide it to them.

Sorry.

Door's that way.

Id rather see the game burning itself down to the ground as is than becoming yet another kiddie's playground.

Actually the majority didn't. The majority of them read a review or signed up for a free trial found out the games full of little bitches too afraid of PvP who decided to stay in the baby pond with a bunch of other lil bitchrs nd shoot ships that have no hope of retaliating. They then decided not to sign up.

Ironically you are burning it down. CCP misses out on cash and that cash isn't being used to make nice new toys or buy new hardware.

There are 8000 systems where you can fight actual players, not 20 second fights where you burn down a helpless ship before dying to invulnerable NPCs, fights that make your hands shake and fights that when you win give you a big sense of satisfaction and enjoyment.

Should try that out one day I can assure you its fun.


Lol, yea, like a handful of butthurt "victims" were really going to affect CCP's finances and business model on the long run, or ever did hurt it for more than 10 years...

Cry me a river.

And also, before assuming ****, might I invite you to:

Zkillboard

You might actually learn so many wonderous things about yourself there.

By handful Im assuming you mean the tens of millions playing PvE only games because they don't like PvP. Based on other games with both PvP and PvE there's about 1/10 ratio so given the 200,000 who play EvE that's potentially 2,000,000 or so.

I don't do killboards they give away too much Intel.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)