EVE General Discussion

Ironically, it was a wardec that got me to look outside of highsec, through a wormhole to a highsec island in Aridia and from there I joined a smarter group, learned how to live in lowsec, daytrip wormholes and even was introduced to nullsec renter life.

OP I sort of look at it another way, this is a game and the intent is to have fun, some people get great fun blowing up others in a competitive game, other like blowing up people who are easy kills and shouting how good they are. What you have to do is sit back and do not lose sight of the fact that this is a game of competition and by playing it you are exposing yourself to heavy competition in all ways.

To be blunt that is why I play it, because it can bee very very harsh and you test yourself by playing it.

I don't really get excited blowing up a helpless prey, many times I could have killed someone and did not bother, when in Stain I did not hunt people doing exploration most of the time because I did not find it worthy of me. Sounds arrogant, yes because I am only proving something to myself.

The other day I did a 1v2, OK I was in a Confessor and the other players were in T1 frigates, but they were Omega's pretending to be Alpha and they knew their stuff. What I did was pretend to be a kiting Confessor and make them want to get a warp in on me, I even made what looked like and error to enable them to do so and then they found I was a brawling fit and they both lost their ships and a pod. I had a better ship but they could have beaten me, that was a good fight and I really enjoyed and I respected the hell out of them for their play.

And this is the most important thing, I can look at the gankers and while I find their play stale in terms of a real fight I have to admire the sheer relentless detail and skill in using the mechanics, for me blowing up the mining ship unless it had strategic reasons means nothing, but for them it was the flawless execution, and in some ways it is similar to a flawless Black OPs drop with the only difference in that the BLOP's players are risky something very expensive.

War deckers are in the main a desperately sad bunch now with a number of exceptions, the most sad are the blanket war deckers, and you people need to stop being scared of them, they no longer have a watch list and now you can move to out of the way locations, avoid the pipes, the market and missions hubs and you will never see them, the only exception would be those that are local conflicts or where you have something in space that can be attacked.

You are in a competition and play like it, I play to be hard to kill and in many ways a huge challenge for people to get a kill on, but I am an average PvP''r. Yes many of them would not bother to go after me because I know how to play this game. The best advise I can give you is this, play the game to be bloody minded, become hard to kill and look at them as opponents to be beaten in as many ways as you can, and that is the real Eve.

I recently went back to 0.0 to enjoy medium sized fleet combat and the odd bit of home defence in a very competent alliance that suits me and I have been fighting some of the better players in this game and I love it. This game is a challenge and that is the beauty of it and that also is true of the forums, the meta gaming on here is just incredible though you do see the odd bit of honesty poking its head out from some of them.

My issue wth Eve has always been with balance and certain mechanics, but at the core of the game it really is a game to challenge you and if you are a smart player then I have to say it is quite easy to blow up more than you lose. If you want a chat about it hit me up for a private chat.

o7

EDIT: Had to run off to have a shower after doing some exercise so had to finished before I got to the most important part, you need to make people understand that to win at Eve they have to make themselves not be a patsy, in other words an easy plaything for players who want easy kill and many of the war deckers and gankers are just like taht. With a bit of effort you can make it a lot harder for them though due to mechanics and balance issues some areas have no counter so just do not do it. People need to play with an attitude of not giving their pixels away as a killmail easily. I hope that explains it better.

Why won't make it free for all then? What would happen should hisec would be removed completly? Are we expecting huge amounts of new players then ?

I think this is all about setting up right learning curve. I would advocate adding even better reasons to live outside of higsec so the players will WANT to go there and PLAY rather than using wdec-like mechanics which are likely to STOP them playing.

o111

Every seasoned pvp vet was once a newb in a frigate getting the shakes for the first time.

as for the numbers, sure a single corp might not be able to muster much of a fight, but one of these big complaints is that these wardeccing corps can just scatter as many wardecs around as they please.
whats stopping the ceo of one corp from reaching out to the ceo of another that is currently under the wardec and joining forces? and another, and another.
wardecs go both ways, by opening up a bunch of targets for themselves, these corps are also opening themselves up to even more reprisal.

why do you think you don't see many (if any) solo corps holding sov out in null? they form alliances, and those alliances form coalitions, they might not fly together and work together on a day to day basis. but when war comes they can combine their fleets and become a force to be reconed with.

there is absolutely nothing stopping HS corps under threat of wardec from doing the exact same thing.

hell even if those corps can't put together enough of a combat fleet themselves, surely between the combined wallets of 4 or 5 corps they can come up with enough isk to hire some mercs to come to their aid.

And why is it that HS is the only place where "oh but we would have to move" is seen as a bad thing?
in low and null, if a bigger fish moves into your pond, you either stay and fight or you get pushed out and find somewhere else to settle.

hell a HS corp of any reasonable size could even BE the bigger fish if they just moved to a slightly smaller pond.

find a quiet system off the main trade routes, set up your own citadels, if there are other miners in the area declare war on them and either push them out or get them to join you, take down the local poco's, make that space your own. it will drive content for your players, help them gain experience in taking and owning space. and be much more fun for everyone involved.

some fights you simply cannot win, so fight the ones you can.

better later than never!
we are only at page 3... long way to go still

There is a cliched saying a lot of us bring out when these sorts of points are made; that being - HTFU or GTFO in its shortest and most aggressive form.

Putting the cliche aspect of it aside - "EVE is what it is and it's up to players to adapt, not the game" - there are at least two fundamental questions:

1. What change should CCP make to chase a group of players that don't currently stick around, that will also keep the existing player base happy?

2. How far is far enough? Where is the line that CCP should stop at if they were to make changes to chase more players, since the motivation to stay with the game is an individual thing, not a group thing?

No change is one way positive. Players already have 100% perfect safety from wardecs if they want. What more do they need that won't fundamentally change what EVE is and not necessarily for the better depending on your point of view?

That used to be the case actually. Once upon a time concord was more akin to the faction navy's. They could be avoided. They could be fought. And they could be tanked against.
They would win eventually but it wasnt the insta nuke it is today.

And the HS care bears wined and complained and cried and ccp caved and made concord into what we know it as today.

That was well written.

Still a strange approach if you want to keep as many new
players as possible.

This is after all a game, not a Navy Seals recruiting program.

Seems CCP is struggling, should we stick to the original
concept or try to make it more compelling.

glad you said that because neither do i

Although I think the OP is a bit whiny, and his idea is terrible (alt corp 1 decs me all the time so no one else can), I would like to see a "social" corp with some limitations. When we tell new players "join a corp" they first look at the recruitment tool and find some hisec mining corp. The issue is that basically a corp gives you four things:
1. The ability to anchor structures.
2. The abillity to declare war.
3. Shared corp hangars.
4. A community.
If your corp has no interest in #1 or #2, you basically have no reason to form a corp in hisec. All it gives you is a shared hangar and a chat channel. Anyone can create a private chat channel and invite people into that, and the loss of a shared hangar isn't really worth the risk of a wardec in a small corp. The risk vs. reward of being in a corp doesn't add up, especially not for line members who don't have access to those hangars anyway. So they leave the corp and stay in an NPC or 1 man corp, which limits their player interaction, which is bad. I'd propose that we allow the creation of social corps that have the following restrictions:
-They cannot declare war, or have war declared upon them.
-They cannot anchor structures aside from personal deployables.
-They have a 5% NPC tax upon them, in addition to the corp tax.
-They cannot join an Alliance.
I'd also propose that there be a way to "win" a war. Currently only the aggressor can really win. They get the target corp to give them money, or destroy a structure they want dead. The defending corp doesn't really have much of a way to benefit from the war. I suggest that a corp who wishes to declare war on another corp must anchor a structure of some sort. The war only extends to the region the structure is anchored in (preventing shenanigans like anchoring it in deep nullsec on the other side of the galaxy), has one reinforce timer, and if it is destroyed the war ends. I'd use POCO reinforce timers for it, so it's vulnerable anytime, but comes out of reinforce around a time of the aggressor's choosing. Once the deployable is destroyed, the defender cannot be wardecced by the aggressor again for a period of 2-4 weeks.
I'm aware my ideas aren't perfect, but they're a start.