EVE General Discussion

It's semantics.

You can say that if someone only shoots NPCs, he's doing PvE. I can say if someone buys and sells (mines, produces, etc) things on the same market that everyone uses, he's competing with everyone else, thus he's doing PvP.

I feel we are both right by our own definitions. Though I feel one of those definitions matches the unique environment of New Eden better.

Thanks guys, that happened in 2011. Lost a T2 / Faction fit T3 Loki Cruiser and pod with full set of +5 attribute implants and full set of 5% hardwiring implants for various ship needs. Total cost to replace ship, equipment and implants was 2.3 bill which was easily replaced within 24 hrs. The main thing that bummed me out was it took 4 days to retrain the lost skill level on Loki sub-system.


DMC

Sarcasm aside, it is indeed a full-time PvP game by design. Yes, there is PvE elements in it. They exist as inducements for you to put yourself at risk to, and compete with, other players. It's perfectly fine to like them, and spend most of your play time doing that content. But they exist in the framework of a full-time PvP game, where you are always at risk to the actions of other players. That last fact trumps whatever else is in the game by putting you in a single Thunderdome with the other players to fight over, and cooperate to get, the rewards from that PvE content.

This is the fundamental design of the game. CCP has confirmed it multiple times, in multiple place, and spells it out to the new players in the FAQ. There is such a fallacy as the 'appeal to authority'. Using only the fact someone of stature said something as evidence for your position is usually a no-no. In this case, this does not apply because it is the creator of the game is telling us exactly what type of game they built. CCP says it is a full-time PvP sandbox game so it is a full-time PvP sandbox game. That doesn't mean players will find creative ways to play that maybe don't involve PvP at all, like say the guy that only uses the Eve client as an elaborate IM client to talk to his friends. Great, to that guy Eve is an IM client, but that doesn't mean Eve was built as anything else but a PvP sandbox game and it would therefore be crazy for CCP to listen to that guy and change the game so chatting to your friends awarded ISK or something. That would be incompatible with the core idea of they game the set out to build.

Sure, CCP can add Emoji support and new PvE to make players more happy with the game. I hope they do as many people enjoy the social and PvE parts of the game. There is a lot of room for all sorts of types of game play in the sandbox. But they all are as part of a competitive, single universe PvP sandbox game where your actions can affect the greater universe, and the greater universe can show up and affect you.

This thread has come a long way from the creepy veteran player asking for a wardec-free safe space for him to groom his new players for his own purposes. I get Eve is a lot of different things to different people, but at its core is a living virtual universe. That constrains what type of game play is possible. It doesn't mean wardecs can't be changed or even suicide ganking replaced with something else, but it does mean that players, both new and old, will never be given a safe and lucrative space where they can play the game in isolation from the sandbox. Whatever changes are made with wardecs and highsec criminality will always leave open the possibility of you becoming content for the other players. Eve was built as competitive sandbox game and it will stay that way until the servers go dark.

I think maybe what people are getting at is that even if someone avoids any direct PVP and tries to stay away from players then they're still involved in PVP indirectly. In your examples it takes conscious effort to be aware of PVP heavy areas and avoid them, and/or fit your ship to survive. Those acts themselves show that the pilot recognizes they're in a PVP environment, even though they seek to do PVE.

A pilot still keeps gankers in mind even if they only want to mine and don't want combat. So they fit their ship for survivability. They're taking part in PVP by fitting their ship that way, or rather - they're aware that they're in a constant PVP environment even though they seek to avoid combat. They're a target to someone. We all are the minute we undock and it doesn't matter what we intend doing.

It's the fact that you can't turn PVP 'off' which makes EVE a PVP universe. You can make conscious effort to avoid it, but it's ever-present wherever you go, there is no safe zone. So I believe referring to EVE as a PVP game is accurate, though of course it has all kinds of other content PVP is the one constant nobody can avoid.

Reimburse them anyways.
You got your value in salt if they rage.
Its a fair exchange.

It takes time for noobs to "get" EVE.
Most have never played anything like this before.
Many pirates are ex-miners.

Why do you think?

And before you ask, no
I don't mine... I'd rather punch myself in the balls repeatedly until they're numb or non-existent than to subject myself to that lmao

I can feel with you. I once lost a Catalyst, it was a very traumatic experience. I can still remember it, it was in 2014

They assume that because gankers know their victims ships better than the victims do.

I had a corp mate buy a procurer from me a few months ago. He mined 1 cycle, decided mining was ******** as hell, and then blew up the procurer so he could get the taste out of his mouth.

Methinks you are trying too hard, I just love watching your hypocrisy, I totally love it.