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Quafe Convoy Destroyed By Caldari Forces On Caldari-Gallente Border
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James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#361 - 2017-04-11 23:04:00 UTC
Che Biko wrote:
M. Syagrius, that was at my own (2nd) 18th birthday party, not Osyn's.

Sorry for the off-topic, but I had to engage in a little rumor control.
My pardon, my memory isn't what it used to be.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#362 - 2017-04-15 12:21:20 UTC
Shun Makoto wrote:
I'm seeing a lot of speculation fly around but we've still yet to see an official statement from Customs. Though the fact we've yet to see a statement is...disheartening.

If there is no statement, then there is nothing to explain. It looks like it was just another successful operation with Quafe crying about it and making up stuff. Simple as that.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#363 - 2017-04-16 22:23:47 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Considering the crew were all Caldari, whose to say they haven't already been informed and the matter settled internally? This was a matter of Caldari shooting Caldari. Quafe just supplied the ships that got destroyed.
Actually it's not and I think you know better.

Personally, I think we all know what this was, and in time will know the truth of it.

Until we do, fear not. I will remind you regularly.
Your weekly reminder, as promised.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#364 - 2017-04-17 04:25:01 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Considering the crew were all Caldari, whose to say they haven't already been informed and the matter settled internally? This was a matter of Caldari shooting Caldari. Quafe just supplied the ships that got destroyed.
Actually it's not and I think you know better.

Personally, I think we all know what this was, and in time will know the truth of it.

Until we do, fear not. I will remind you regularly.
Your weekly reminder, as promised.


While I guess I should feel honored that you find it worth your time to do this for me, but consider your reminder duly noted and disregarded.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#365 - 2017-04-17 13:33:41 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:

If there is no statement, then there is nothing to explain.


Even you cannot be this brainwashed.
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#366 - 2017-04-17 15:58:45 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:

If there is no statement, then there is nothing to explain.


Even you cannot be this brainwashed.

Sure she can.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Synthetic Cultist
Church of The Crimson Saviour
#367 - 2017-04-17 17:24:21 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
You know, this became a s**t storm faster then my 18th birthday party... and that went downhill as soon as the first guest arrived naked.


The First Guest to Arrive was Naked ?
Or
The first Naked Guests Arrival was the Point at which Things Got Out Of Hand ?

Synthia 1, Empress of Kaztropol.

It is Written.
Claudia Osyn
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#368 - 2017-04-17 18:05:47 UTC
Synthetic Cultist wrote:
Claudia Osyn wrote:
You know, this became a s**t storm faster then my 18th birthday party... and that went downhill as soon as the first guest arrived naked.


The First Guest to Arrive was Naked ?
Or
The first Naked Guests Arrival was the Point at which Things Got Out Of Hand ?

Yes.

A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#369 - 2017-04-17 23:53:05 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
While I guess I should feel honored that you find it worth your time to do this for me, but consider your reminder duly noted and disregarded.
More flattered than honored I would suppose, but noted and disregarded.... I am not sure how that works but still, never fear, while my memory is often tidal when fixated impeccable.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#370 - 2017-04-18 20:22:37 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Considering the crew were all Caldari, whose to say they haven't already been informed and the matter settled internally? This was a matter of Caldari shooting Caldari. Quafe just supplied the ships that got destroyed.
Actually it's not and I think you know better.

Personally, I think we all know what this was, and in time will know the truth of it.

Until we do, fear not. I will remind you regularly.
Your weekly reminder, as promised.



I mean, I get it, but in the absence of any information about what actually happened, what conclusions are we supposed to draw? I'm totally prepared to be outraged if a crime has actually been committed (you might signally remember I went to war against my own Executor over an attack on civilians) but in the absence of evidence I'm not sure how upset I can get.

Well, I am. Not much.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#371 - 2017-04-18 22:01:11 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I mean, I get it, but in the absence of any information about what actually happened, what conclusions are we supposed to draw? I'm totally prepared to be outraged if a crime has actually been committed (you might signally remember I went to war against my own Executor over an attack on civilians) but in the absence of evidence I'm not sure how upset I can get.

Well, I am. Not much.
Pieter, you know my mind on such matters as well as anyone in the State... well, save one. It isn't in my nature to accept and obey regarding something like this, without justification. My intent isn't to encourage 'outrage'. But what little one can do, one should do and I can do this.

A state actor destroyed an unarmed civilian convoy, our business or not, I would know the reason why.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#372 - 2017-04-18 22:08:30 UTC
Well, I wish you luck in getting an answer. I'd like to know what happened, myself.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Diana Kim
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#373 - 2017-04-19 10:11:10 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I mean, I get it, but in the absence of any information about what actually happened, what conclusions are we supposed to draw? I'm totally prepared to be outraged if a crime has actually been committed (you might signally remember I went to war against my own Executor over an attack on civilians) but in the absence of evidence I'm not sure how upset I can get.

Well, I am. Not much.
Pieter, you know my mind on such matters as well as anyone in the State... well, save one. It isn't in my nature to accept and obey regarding something like this, without justification. My intent isn't to encourage 'outrage'. But what little one can do, one should do and I can do this.

A state actor destroyed an unarmed civilian convoy, our business or not, I would know the reason why.

Weren't it said already?
Illegal border crossing.

Honored are the dead, for their legacy guides us.

In memory of Tibus Heth, Caldari State Executor YC110-115, Hero and Patriot.
Yoshitaka Moromuo
Burning Skies
Apocalypse Now.
#374 - 2017-04-19 15:43:51 UTC
Diana Kim wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I mean, I get it, but in the absence of any information about what actually happened, what conclusions are we supposed to draw? I'm totally prepared to be outraged if a crime has actually been committed (you might signally remember I went to war against my own Executor over an attack on civilians) but in the absence of evidence I'm not sure how upset I can get.

Well, I am. Not much.
Pieter, you know my mind on such matters as well as anyone in the State... well, save one. It isn't in my nature to accept and obey regarding something like this, without justification. My intent isn't to encourage 'outrage'. But what little one can do, one should do and I can do this.

A state actor destroyed an unarmed civilian convoy, our business or not, I would know the reason why.

Weren't it said already?
Illegal border crossing.
Not the case if the prohibition was onlyn on entering non-capsuleer traffic.

We can argue back and forth. All that will put this to bed is a release of investigatory results.
Jev North
Doomheim
#375 - 2017-04-19 15:53:09 UTC
It should be noted that traffic at the border may be stopped for reasons that are at once legal and yet not directly related to the Kyonoke restrictions.

Even though our love is cruel; even though our stars are crossed.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#376 - 2017-04-19 16:05:08 UTC
Jev North wrote:
It should be noted that traffic at the border may be stopped for reasons that are at once legal and yet not directly related to the Kyonoke restrictions.


True, though that would leave questions about why the freighters went down with all hands.

Usually you'd expect someone to have survived long enough to be arrested.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#377 - 2017-04-19 17:38:44 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:
True, though that would leave questions about why the freighters went down with all hands.

Usually you'd expect someone to have survived long enough to be arrested.
A valid point, As I recall the average crew survival rate for a ship of that size is 37.5%.

“Here also are the heralds of his praise."
Arrendis
TK Corp
#378 - 2017-04-19 18:43:20 UTC
James Syagrius wrote:
As I recall the average crew survival rate for a ship of that size is 37.5%.


Funny thing, the average crew survival rate for an unarmed freighter being stopped by law enforcement interested in making an arrest, and not simply blowing them to hel.. is closer to 85%, because unarmed freighters who are pointed and webbed down by law enforcement have this weird tendency to not be able to shoot back and provoke a lethal response.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#379 - 2017-04-19 20:52:48 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
James Syagrius wrote:
As I recall the average crew survival rate for a ship of that size is 37.5%.


Funny thing, the average crew survival rate for an unarmed freighter being stopped by law enforcement interested in making an arrest, and not simply blowing them to hel.. is closer to 85%, because unarmed freighters who are pointed and webbed down by law enforcement have this weird tendency to not be able to shoot back and provoke a lethal response.


They may have outnumbered the number of available tacklers. The only alternative then would be to allow the untackled ships to escape - and the commanding officer may have decided it was simply better to ask forgiveness than permission and fired.

Personally I find it very unlikely that the Navy would have decided to simply butcher the escaping / surrendering crew of the freighters. There's simply no reason to do so. At the same time, it is almost impossible that so many prisoners could be introduced to the prison system without THEIR version of the story getting out by now.

This all adds up to either no survivors or else maximum security internment for the survivors. This would be a very unusual policy - but then we were already dealing with a zebra due to circumstances surrounding the interdiction of that convoy.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#380 - 2017-04-19 21:22:13 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:

They may have outnumbered the number of available tacklers. The only alternative then would be to allow the untackled ships to escape - and the commanding officer may have decided it was simply better to ask forgiveness than permission and fired.


C'mon. I could see that as an explanation for why some of the vessels were destroyed, but all of them?

Quote:

Personally I find it very unlikely that the Navy would have decided to simply butcher the escaping / surrendering crew of the freighters. There's simply no reason to do so. At the same time, it is almost impossible that so many prisoners could be introduced to the prison system without THEIR version of the story getting out by now.

This all adds up to either no survivors or else maximum security internment for the survivors. This would be a very unusual policy - but then we were already dealing with a zebra due to circumstances surrounding the interdiction of that convoy.


Indeed. And the State hasn't contested the claims that there were no survivors. So either there were none, or the State would rather be seen as executing an entire convoy of unarmed ships out of hand, with all of the political repercussions that might carry... than explain what actually happened.

That's a bit troubling, don't you think? Either the State did execute a bunch of unarmed ships they could have simply apprehended... or something worse was going on. Or something they think would seem worse. Troubling, either way.