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Can we get rid of CSM after the recent PLEX insider trading fiasco?

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Veine Miromme
Gallente Federation
#261 - 2017-03-31 05:35:02 UTC
Vigirr wrote:
Veine Miromme wrote:
Zarek Kree wrote:


Okay, fine. I'll bite...WTF are you talking about dude? It's like you're running your posts through a random word generator.

lol

you don't seem friendly.


It's not about being friendly or not, he's pointing out that your post makes no fcking sense. And it doesn't, so he's right.


No, you're not friendly either, you're both just trying to attack me.

Ship Type : Out of pod (for now)
Salvos Rhoska
#262 - 2017-03-31 07:41:41 UTC
More transparency would help.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#263 - 2017-03-31 07:43:24 UTC
Veine Miromme wrote:
Vigirr wrote:
Veine Miromme wrote:
Zarek Kree wrote:


Okay, fine. I'll bite...WTF are you talking about dude? It's like you're running your posts through a random word generator.

lol

you don't seem friendly.


It's not about being friendly or not, he's pointing out that your post makes no fcking sense. And it doesn't, so he's right.


No, you're not friendly either, you're both just trying to attack me.



Or you could, you know...make a cogent point and preferably one that does not drag in current RL politics into it.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#264 - 2017-03-31 07:45:58 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
More transparency would help.


What Transparency? There is an assumption of bad actions, yet there is little reason to think it has happened. The price movements could very well be explained by post hoc ergo propter hoc vs. a grand conspiracy.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Salvos Rhoska
#265 - 2017-03-31 07:46:55 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
More transparency would help.


What Transparency?


Exactly.

PvE v PvP <> Old School Exploration <> CODE Licenses <> CODE Special Agent
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#266 - 2017-03-31 19:11:56 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
It just did... there is a discount the next few days.


CCP routinely runs discounts - and frequently much greater than the current 15%. Those discounts are one of the ways CCP controls the in-game exchange rate ensuring that it stays relatively flat. The recent spike may very well be why they put it on sale. A discount leads to people buying it, which increases supply, lowers in-game demand and reduces the exchange rate.


Bollocks.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#267 - 2017-03-31 19:21:50 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
More transparency would help.


What Transparency?


Exactly.


Selective quoting does little to improve your position.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Zarek Kree
Lunatic Legion Holdings
#268 - 2017-03-31 19:36:25 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Zarek Kree wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
It just did... there is a discount the next few days.


CCP routinely runs discounts - and frequently much greater than the current 15%. Those discounts are one of the ways CCP controls the in-game exchange rate ensuring that it stays relatively flat. The recent spike may very well be why they put it on sale. A discount leads to people buying it, which increases supply, lowers in-game demand and reduces the exchange rate.


Bollocks.



Well, the only appropriate response to such a carefully considered and articulated assessment is to say "Does so, does so, does so!"
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#269 - 2017-03-31 20:18:13 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Zarek Kree wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
It just did... there is a discount the next few days.


CCP routinely runs discounts - and frequently much greater than the current 15%. Those discounts are one of the ways CCP controls the in-game exchange rate ensuring that it stays relatively flat. The recent spike may very well be why they put it on sale. A discount leads to people buying it, which increases supply, lowers in-game demand and reduces the exchange rate.


Bollocks.



Well, the only appropriate response to such a carefully considered and articulated assessment is to say "Does so, does so, does so!"


Really? I thought it was, "Your Mama!"

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#270 - 2017-04-01 06:03:32 UTC
So in looking at the market....PLEX prices are heading back towards 1.1 billion ISK. Whoops, guess that conspiracy to profit of the massive increase in the value of PLEX just went totally sideways.

Lol

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#271 - 2017-04-01 07:23:37 UTC
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Zarek Kree wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
It just did... there is a discount the next few days.


CCP routinely runs discounts - and frequently much greater than the current 15%. Those discounts are one of the ways CCP controls the in-game exchange rate ensuring that it stays relatively flat. The recent spike may very well be why they put it on sale. A discount leads to people buying it, which increases supply, lowers in-game demand and reduces the exchange rate.


Bollocks.


I feel that with the plex prices moving back down in reaction to the sale, that this post right here needs to be highlighted again.
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#272 - 2017-04-01 07:25:20 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
So in looking at the market....PLEX prices are heading back towards 1.1 billion ISK. Whoops, guess that conspiracy to profit of the massive increase in the value of PLEX just went totally sideways.

Lol


its pretty much like clockwork, any time the plex prices break the 1.2 billion mark, you can almost guarantee that there will be a sale in the near future. it is so reliable in fact that if I had the isk to spare for long term investments I would bank on that one being pretty safe.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#273 - 2017-04-01 07:30:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
So in looking at the market....PLEX prices are heading back towards 1.1 billion ISK. Whoops, guess that conspiracy to profit of the massive increase in the value of PLEX just went totally sideways.

Lol


its pretty much like clockwork, any time the plex prices break the 1.2 billion mark, you can almost guarantee that there will be a sale in the near future. it is so reliable in fact that if I had the isk to spare for long term investments I would bank on that one being pretty safe.


It is almost like CCP is doing some sort of profit maximizing...who'd have thunk it!?!!?

To be clear: If I were CCP I'd be watching PLEX prices and when PLEX prices move up X% it triggers a sale. Why? Because a high in game price means more people will want to sell PLEX for ISK. When the price hits a certain level, end the sale. Totally batshit crazy idea I know. Roll

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Bjorn Tyrson
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#274 - 2017-04-01 07:37:49 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
So in looking at the market....PLEX prices are heading back towards 1.1 billion ISK. Whoops, guess that conspiracy to profit of the massive increase in the value of PLEX just went totally sideways.

Lol


its pretty much like clockwork, any time the plex prices break the 1.2 billion mark, you can almost guarantee that there will be a sale in the near future. it is so reliable in fact that if I had the isk to spare for long term investments I would bank on that one being pretty safe.


It is almost like CCP is doing some sort of profit maximizing...who'd have thunk it!?!!?

To be clear: If I were CCP I'd be watching PLEX prices and when PLEX prices move up X% it triggers a sale. Why? Because a high in game price means more people will want to sell PLEX for ISK. When the price hits a certain level, end the sale. Totally batshit crazy idea I know. Roll


I remember hearing that ccp had actually admitted that right around 1b isk is the "sweet spot" that they like to keep plex in (although I don't have a direct source for this so take it as rumor), inflation will inevitably drive the prices up, so all they need to do is have sales when they want to drive them back down. and as you said, its a good money making strategy on their part as well.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#275 - 2017-04-01 19:00:23 UTC
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
So in looking at the market....PLEX prices are heading back towards 1.1 billion ISK. Whoops, guess that conspiracy to profit of the massive increase in the value of PLEX just went totally sideways.

Lol


its pretty much like clockwork, any time the plex prices break the 1.2 billion mark, you can almost guarantee that there will be a sale in the near future. it is so reliable in fact that if I had the isk to spare for long term investments I would bank on that one being pretty safe.


It is almost like CCP is doing some sort of profit maximizing...who'd have thunk it!?!!?

To be clear: If I were CCP I'd be watching PLEX prices and when PLEX prices move up X% it triggers a sale. Why? Because a high in game price means more people will want to sell PLEX for ISK. When the price hits a certain level, end the sale. Totally batshit crazy idea I know. Roll


I remember hearing that ccp had actually admitted that right around 1b isk is the "sweet spot" that they like to keep plex in (although I don't have a direct source for this so take it as rumor), inflation will inevitably drive the prices up, so all they need to do is have sales when they want to drive them back down. and as you said, its a good money making strategy on their part as well.


We are in a period of deflation according to the latest report (February 2017) from CCP Quant. Actually, having PLEX can help with this problem. An old bitter vet with 50 billion in his wallet buying some PLEX puts billions of ISK into new players wallets who will more likely go and spend it (ships, ammo, implants, etc.).

PLEX are an other example of emergence in the game. CCP appears to have started it for the purpose of combating RMT (a good thing). But it helps redistribute ISK from those older players to newer players (a good thing) and it helps keep ISK in circulation vs. sitting in a wallet (a good thing).

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#276 - 2017-04-01 22:12:28 UTC
Zarek Kree wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Zarek Kree wrote:
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
It just did... there is a discount the next few days.


CCP routinely runs discounts - and frequently much greater than the current 15%. Those discounts are one of the ways CCP controls the in-game exchange rate ensuring that it stays relatively flat. The recent spike may very well be why they put it on sale. A discount leads to people buying it, which increases supply, lowers in-game demand and reduces the exchange rate.


Bollocks.



Well, the only appropriate response to such a carefully considered and articulated assessment is to say "Does so, does so, does so!"


In a few years the price of PLEX has gone up from 500 mil to more than 1 bil. Why didn't CCP stop that from happening by offering discounts?
Nicolai Serkanner
Incredible.
Brave Collective
#277 - 2017-04-01 22:14:16 UTC
Teckos Pech wrote:
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
So in looking at the market....PLEX prices are heading back towards 1.1 billion ISK. Whoops, guess that conspiracy to profit of the massive increase in the value of PLEX just went totally sideways.

Lol


its pretty much like clockwork, any time the plex prices break the 1.2 billion mark, you can almost guarantee that there will be a sale in the near future. it is so reliable in fact that if I had the isk to spare for long term investments I would bank on that one being pretty safe.


It is almost like CCP is doing some sort of profit maximizing...who'd have thunk it!?!!?

To be clear: If I were CCP I'd be watching PLEX prices and when PLEX prices move up X% it triggers a sale. Why? Because a high in game price means more people will want to sell PLEX for ISK. When the price hits a certain level, end the sale. Totally batshit crazy idea I know. Roll


But discounts di not stop the increase of prices. So it is indeed batshit crazy.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#278 - 2017-04-02 01:58:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
Nicolai Serkanner wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
Bjorn Tyrson wrote:
Teckos Pech wrote:
So in looking at the market....PLEX prices are heading back towards 1.1 billion ISK. Whoops, guess that conspiracy to profit of the massive increase in the value of PLEX just went totally sideways.

Lol


its pretty much like clockwork, any time the plex prices break the 1.2 billion mark, you can almost guarantee that there will be a sale in the near future. it is so reliable in fact that if I had the isk to spare for long term investments I would bank on that one being pretty safe.


It is almost like CCP is doing some sort of profit maximizing...who'd have thunk it!?!!?

To be clear: If I were CCP I'd be watching PLEX prices and when PLEX prices move up X% it triggers a sale. Why? Because a high in game price means more people will want to sell PLEX for ISK. When the price hits a certain level, end the sale. Totally batshit crazy idea I know. Roll


But discounts di not stop the increase of prices. So it is indeed batshit crazy.


Yes it probably did. You posted on 3/30 that there was a discount on PLEX. Looking at the price of PLEX in Jita it peaked (for the last few months on March 29 with a median price just over 1.2 billion. The price has been falling since then and right now you can buy a PLEX for 1.139 billion.

Here is what happens when CCP has a sale. The supply is horizontal (perfectly elastic) because CCP can satisfy any and all demand--i.e. the demand for PLEX is what determines the quantity at any given price. With a sale, the quantity of PLEX will increase. The effect in game looks like this.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Alexander Bor
Polaris Global
#279 - 2017-04-02 07:08:09 UTC
OMG it's as simple as 1,2,3:

CSM being composed of a big alliance representatives cannot be treated as independent.

So, yes, CSM is compromised. And one shouldn't be a genius to see that. And it is absolutely no matter did the info which influenced the market was leaked or not - it was possible on easy way.

By the way CCP should be interested in the investigation of such a case and being publicity and open here if they want the game and the community to develop successfully. Of course it is possible only if CCP not involved in this crap.
Nyx Viliana
Doomheim
#280 - 2017-04-02 12:58:52 UTC
I love how everyone is demanding an investigation. Even if IA looks into this I feel pretty confident that no matter what was said you would all scream cover up.


Oh on a side note when I first started playing plex was 450m isk. Are you going to tell me that someone leaked the information way back then and that is why the price is so high.

A few other points:

A) regarding aurm being destroyed, last time I checked all items within and in relation to Eve are property of CCP who grant you *a limited license* to use them. - it remains property of CCP, they can do what they want with it.

And before someone goes "oh that's nothe binding" CCP owns Eve, if you want to make the argument that the EULA is not binding go ahead, you in effect have no right to play the game anyway Twisted

B) and seriously I know that you do not know how to undock and shoot things but if you are all so 'Angry with CCP' why are you on the forums complaing, heck why do you still have the login info for your eve account memorized