EVE General Discussion

No, no. Clearly it was such good game content and everyone loved the play around it so much, that CCP removed it...

Herzeg sees everything through rose coloured glasses if it's something he approves of and everything else is just griefing.

Old content that most people hated; and that had a huge negative impact on industry in lowsec and nullsec, is good....because it's Ye olde content.

It's a very selective memory thing.

Jump Freighters were introduced into the game in the Trinity expansion in 2007. Apparently only the game back before 2007 was 'real piracy',

Surely nobody complains about anything now.

CCP would have done best to stick to their vision and just pay attention to the subs and not what people say.

Well, structure grind exists.

Charge a fee as an escort.

You can use Tornados in HS, as is right now.
Infact you can do the same in LS too as it is right now.

So it seems insurance is the remaining issue.

Seems a fair tradeoff to me in LS where PvP is systemically less restricted than in HS.

Might be dull for some, but its clear from the amount of freight being moved that its not dull for many.
That stuff isnt moving itself. Players are moving it.

Also you dont "have" to haul through LS to live in null (or even in LS)
Get someone else to do it for you.

For smaller volumes, you can use traditional MWD/Cloak, webbing, tank/align, T2cloak etc tactics just like usual on a variety of hulls for gate transit (especially as there are no bubbles in LS).

See what I mean?
I understand removing cynos seriously impairs JFs through LS.
But thb the current mechanics make a mockery of LS to intercept them.
(And feeding into the Jita monstrosity, and the unadulterated material transit between HS and NS)

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Im glad we tabled and settled the Tornado issue.
Players currently can field 60 Tornadoes in HS and LS already.
This is not changed.
The insurance issue is very cheap as is, and also is not changed
(Tbh insurance is stupid anyways as a system).
Still follows EVEs Golden Rule:
Dont fly what you cant afford to lose.

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JFs are a 89.5 day train, just to sit in one, not to mention very expensive. (7bil+)
In regards to Malcanis' Law, JFs are one of those instances that violates it in reverse, specifically in LS.
Newer, smaller entities have difficulty fielding them, and are instead forced to use gate transit.
Thus newer/smaller entities must risk gate camps, whilst established groups lol-cyno past the gatecamps into and through LS (especially with strategic Citadels).

To make matters worse, those established larger entities in LS/NS can also lol-cyno caps which smaller/newer entities are nowhere near being able to afford or have SP sit in, let alone in sufficient quantities.

A sub-cap, non-cyno LS equalises the field. (Somewhat, not entirely, no change can).

Sure, NS and powerful LS entities can still flood LS with sub-caps, but that is a population/organization issue, not an SP/cost barrier.

As I described before, if cynos/caps are removed from LS, it will be far more attractive to sub-cap capable corps from around EVE to operate there in the hopes of intercepting LS transiting material without JFs jumping over their head, or massive cap fleets they cant hope to match eradicating them.

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The materials must flow between HS and NS, and they must go through LS (except a few geographic exceptions or WHs as a backdoor option).

The value/volume is astounding and ceaseless, in both directions.

When JFs are "brought to ground", rather than jumping over/through LS, and goods must be gate transited through LS, there is enormous wealth, content and opportunity to be had.

It will be a pirate paradise.
Targets everywhere, fighting for control of gates, and either avoiding or manning up to beat the crucial NS convoys for the greatest profit of all.

In the long run, hopefully this will encourage more localized trade hubs, in HS/LS/NS, or atleast warehouse hubs from which willing haulers (in whichever configuration) carry the materials forward per contract or agreement, piecemeal.

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JFs lol-cynoing into and through LS, must end.

"Look at me, Salvos Rhoska, terrible idiot who think it's even remotely possible to feed some large null-sec staging/hub market by doing thousands of trips with a MWD/cloak trip blockade runner."

Lol.
Wtf.

Where do you get off thinking EVE is responsible for feeding NS markets?
Much less by bypassing LS with JF cynos and cap threat?

You are in NS, the most lucrative of all space.

Feed yourself.
Use what you have, locally.

Build your own markets.

HS/NS transit is currently lol-cynoing past/through/over LS, laughing all the way.

Meanwhile smaller entities have to run gates, cos they cant afford/SP JFs, nor Citadel points, nor cap fleets.

Its not so much that new players have showed up, which is good for the game.

Its that some old players refuse any and all change that might hurt their convenience and advantage.

The HS/NS transit of materials through LS, is a systemic issue.
I fully expect them to resist any change to it, by all means, in their own interest.

They will fight it to the bitter end, and any attempt to highlight it.

LS is the key to HS/NS transit.
Everything between the two, must transit through it (except for WHs)
LS, is where to fix this.
Change the lock in LS, so those keys no longer fit.

I dont agree, in terms of LS.

JFs are not the only way to transport material in LS.

LS notably doesnt have bubbles, which makes gate transit eminently more possible with non-cyno, than in NS, which makes JF cynoing in LS all the more unnecessary.

LS is a very thin sector. I havent checked, but I think its something like 10 systems at its widest point.
This even further makes cynos not only unnecessary, but exploitative.
They can simply cyno over gatecamps, between Citadels/stations, and bypass LS with very little risk (except stupidity).

Furthermore, this advantages large/wealthy corps whom can afford JFs, have the SP, can build strategic Citadels to cyno to/from, and additionally can field caps to quash the LS interference by smaller corps.

Smaller corps have to run the gates in LS.
I dont see a reason why in LS larger/wealthy corps should not have to run the gates as well.
This is, afterall, LS, not NS.

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My suggestions regarding removing cynos/caps in LS are just a suggestion.
Im not saying its the perfect solution, but I think it has an equitable ratio of +/-.

If someone has another idea on how to curtail JFs currently making a mockery of LS, and hence the ease/safety of HS-NS material transit (especially by large/wealthy corps), I'm all ears.

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I readily admit my position is predicated on the the premise that ease/safety/efficiency of material transport between HS-NS is unhealthy for the universal economy, for content and diversification of markets.

I look at the Jita figures, and cannot accept that its good for the game.
Huge player empires in EVE have risen and fallen, over and over, yet Jita, an NPC system, just gets bigger and bigger.
Its an abomination, and antithetical to EVE.
Its a tumor that continues to grow in the heart of EVE, draining it of content, and a result of dysfunctional mechanics which make its existence and growth possible.

Since its almost impossible to incentivize PvP in HS, and I dont want to nerf NS autonomy, I look at LS, as the narrow, thin stretched buffer between HS-NS, as the place to curtail the collusion of HS-NS which is making Jita possible.

(Ive also suggested a HS per gate contract cargo value tax % to indirectly incentivize local markets, to atleast encourage flying the materials yourself or as entrusted non-contractually.)

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Im open to argument on any of these, as long as its not just veiled self-interest.
Its not about what is "good" for you, or me, or anyone else, its about the impact on us all, overall.

Removing LS local wont do squat to curtail JF cyno transit.

NS is another matter, but this thread is about LS.

Removing Local from LS doesnt really affect gatecamps, and just makes running PvE content even more risky in what already is rather "poor" yet dangerous space.