Warfare & Tactics

You can tune it though. If you want massive levels of fights you attack a home system. If you want moderate levels of fights you attack a less densely populated system, or a system one-two jumps from a home system. Or you attack a system populated by pirates. etc...

I have thought that perhaps CCP has been hesitant to put in pvp changes they promised because they want faction war to be very new player friendly.

Its my opinion that this is a mistake. I think FW can be new player accessible but the pvp in low is sec is often the most challenging pvp for the typical individual pilot. Lots of Null sec pvp tends to involve anchoring up and just following broadcasts and is in many ways much more new player friendly. (of course these are some generalizations and there are plenty of exceptions to what I am saying here)

I think the success of horde, karma, test, brave etc. should more then adequately demonstrate to ccp that fw (and low sec generally) does not need to serve as a stepping stone to null sec. And in fact it is not going to be well suited for that purpose. In many ways the step up to low sec is higher than the step to null sec for a typical new player that needs allot of hand holding.

Thats not to say fw is not a great place for new players looking for pvp. I am just saying that ccp should make each form of pvp unique and awesome instead of trying to make one a lite version of the other. (often the lite version is a broken version) New players are a big asset for fw corps just like they are big asset for null sec corps. So the player corps will help new players get the hang of the situation even if it is pvp intensive.

This is eve, everything will be abused for personal gain.

The reason making isk and making progress in occupancy has to have a significant pve element is because the devs arent competent enough to create a better system. Lets not make that stop us from demanding balance and improvements.

Well that and the word "alt" in the name are probably good clues.

I don't really have a problem finding PvP. I just don't find it while plexing... I find it by cruising around FW space and looking for it.

Participating in the null sec sov system in no way pays isk or rewards LP. Its motivations can afford to be pvp only since there is no instant benefit from participating (or not so).

The desired design goals for FW is to be able to participate in PvP where possible, PvE as a gatekeeper in lou of PvP and all the time being able to make isk to support yourself without ratting/mining/DED and sanctums etc. The design goals of null are completely different so stating that null sov works differently is painfully stupid.

Im not convinced you spend a single second thinking about your responses. You have your free intel soap box, and even though there is no connection between the problem you see, the solution you propose and the outcome you imagine, you still tout the same nonsense.



So you find it while other people are plexing. Working as intended.

Yes.

The point is that the LP/Plex/Tier system isn't the driver. It's having set locations where you know you have a good chance of finding fights at reasonable odds. I'd wager that the number of fights would in no way be impacted by any changes in how LP are awarded and Tier mechanics... simply because the people using FW for fights (as opposed to plexing and running when a fight comes) don't seem to care all that much about that stuff.

Heck, when I do run a plex in order to set engagement range on a fight, 95% of the fights seem to be neutrals anyway. It's clear they don't give a crap about LP... and as I warp away to fix my ship after the battle (or I'm dead)... I don't really care either.

My comments are based on the idea presented that fighting for higher tiers drives pvp in FW. It's not saying FW doesn't create PvP opportunities... it does. But it doesn't seem to me that those who are trying to win systems to increase the tier are driving PvP much. I don't think changes to LP awards will impact PvP in FW much at all. It will mainly impact those rabbit-plexing for LP.

Nice healthy debate as usual, some good ideas, some old ideas.

Again the consensus is farming can be deterred a bit and rewards and occupancy gain could be tweaked details to be worked out.

Elephant in the room I guess is in the OP's title, FW needs a CSM representative not sure if that is going to happen. I think as a goon and not in FW suitonia may be at the bottom of my vote preference as a just might make a difference but not over other faction war / low sec candidates.

It doesn't matter whether the income is immediate or not. Its not a matter of conflating anything - it doesn't matter. And really if you want to make decent isk at plexing you should get alts rabbit plexing rather than trying to pvp. Like anything else look at what the good players fly. So if you want to get allot of solo kills look at a good solo pilot's killboard. If you want allot of lp or sov for your faction then look at the killboards of those who get capture the most plexes.

Bottom line is you really don't get a significant increase in isk from pvping in faction war. In fact you probably would do much better to be in Karma fleet where you buy one doctrine ship and then the alliance keeps buying you replacements. If you fly certain ships you even make a decent profit from your loses.

Typically the start up costs for making isk in null sec are a bit higher. I mean you need more than a stabbed t1 destroyer to make 100 mill isk per hour. Although even there sov null sec will give you access to pi that will far exceed fw plexing alts.

I just don't think you know enough about the game as a whole to put anything in perspective.

No offense he may be good, but he seems to be holding his cards close to his chest as to what he would actually do on csm.

He says:
"Current warzone control method and system flipping mechanics are long due for a second look."

What does he actually intend to tell ccp in this regard? What exactly needs a second look? Does he want to do away with plexes? Maybe I will like his ideas maybe they will be the opposite of what I would like. How can anyone support this?

Its like saying "we should take a second look at our country's economic policies." Which ones? Trade policies? if so with which countries, Tax policies? Ok with what in mind? Raising taxes or lower them or what? etc.

Edit: Crosi just because I have a rudimentary understanding of null sec and therefore can see how fw can offer something other than null sec lite, that does not mean I want fw to be the same as null sec. Its the opposite.

Most of the changes you support makes fw similar to null. You want a more binary system where people fight over only a few systems. Find out who can get the most firepower in a system or 2 and then the rest is mop up. That is null sec lite.

And in faction war the main isk gains happen after you gain sov and therefore gain tiers. What you describe where people actually would make isk by winning sov was the cash out system. Once the occupancy was established you were paid immediately with items from the lp store. (if you didn't help with the push you won't have any lp to cash out) Now after you gain the sov people join the winning side so they get more lp from their pve. Just like you describe happens in null sec.

If someone shows up, then run away.