EVE General Discussion

1) You can reasonably safely enter and exit LS with sufficient precautions. Running sites/pi there is however quite dangerous, and unlike NS, they generally wont hide when you show up, they will hunt you.

2) If you want to be active in LS, you should join a local LS corp with good connections and resources. LS corp politics is possibly even more complicated than NS, considering what a narrow, cramped expanse they are intermixed in. They cant own it, so they have to perpetually fight with insystem enemies.

3) As to profitability, you will probably make more isk spamming L4s in HS, or mining ice in HS, as opposed to LS.
LS is quite resource poor, but much more dangerous than HS. LS locals themselves also have to run the gatecamp gauntlet, if an emeny corp is setup there.

You are perceiving the chokepoint gatecamps in LS from an outsiders perspective, not from an LS local's.

Tbh, LS gets the short end of the stick on just about everything in EVE.
I honestly feel bad for them. LS could really use improvement.

You are hating on them for all the wrong reasons.

Really? It should have died immediately after the OP, IMO. His problem has a simple solution: after the first loss to the camp, find a different route.



This is such a jumbled mish-mash of stuff.

First off camping a choke point is of such huge tactical advantage to various types of players the idea that it should be eliminated is just…well I’m sorry…but it is stupid. Where are people going to fight in a game like this? Usually at places of tactical and strategic importance.

And for sov NS it is one way to “secure your space”. You’ve fought for it, you’ve laid claim to it, and now you want to keep interlopers out…so you camp the points that people will likely use to gain access to your territory. With nullified ships, cloaks, and jump drives this is far from a perfect strategy, but it does work.

Also, in NS and even LS if you notice a hostile pilot(s) you might keep tabs on them and if they go into a dead end pocket and you want a fight where are you going to set up? On the egress point. You have them trapped, so either they come out and fight, or log off and go do something else.

As for boredom…look players lay claim to parts of the game. It is “theirs,” either simply by effort—e.g. claiming a LS pocket and fighting anyone who comes in, or by using sov mechanics and planting a “flag”. Why shouldn’t they have the right to say, “This is ours and we are going to do our level best to keep you out.” Sure it might just be some guy who wants to do exploration, but the whole idea behind sov is you hold it so you can access the resources there. To build and maintain your empire. To create incentives for battles and wars and all the other stuff.

This is a competitive game FFS. Yet the thrust of the post above is it should be more of a theme park. Oh no, the big mean guys want to call this “area” theirs and they are trying to back up that claim. Those poopy heads, they want to stop me from playing the game how I want. Yup, that is exactly what they are trying to do. That is what it means to be a competitive game. They want those resources for themselves and are willing to compete for them. If you aren’t or can’t, well go find a way to do it. Either by stealth or brute force or some other approach (negotiations?).

Coming to the forums and saying this is unfair, it is stopping me from playing how I want, blah, blah, blah is just so much petulant whining. Yes, you can play how you want. But that also applies to the other players, and if they want to interact with you that is allowed too…even if you don’t want it. That is the basic premise of this game. It is a fundamental tenant. That is why CCP uses the term sandbox FFS. A sandbox game is going to exhibit elements of spontaneous order (e.g., a group of guys banding together to call some part of the game “home”). And they are going to come up with new and novel ways of doing things, examples of emergence. For example, Rooks & Kings pipe bombs are a very novel approach to gate camping in NS. But nooooo lets take that away like we did with targeted wardecs. The latter I might add is how an industrial type might try to lay claim to a valuable HS system. So the loss of that content hurts not just the PvP guys, but also the industrialist(s) who would make use of that mechanic.

The problem here is not the game. The problem is that some players do not understand the nature of the game, or if they do they categorically reject it and want to change it at a fundamental level.

Oh, and you tip your hand that you are arguing out of ignorance. Yes, gate camping is probably some of the best methods for social players. When you are in a gang camping a gate, comms are usually open and people actually talk about all sorts of stuff. When it is a big ass fleet op, comms are usually not open, and while we are all “playing together” the social interaction is very different. Lots of times you’ll be sitting there and nobody will be talking except the FC/target caller.

Yeah, and it will end up biting them in the ass.

For example, all the changes they wanted regarding ganking....now look we have CODE. which acts very much like a terrorist organization that ganks ignoring profitability to a large extent. They wanted insurance removed as that would end ganking. Whoops. These Bads™ completely ignore that when people are ganked those getting ganked essentially chose to take on too much risk either on purpose or out of ignorance.

Nerf these things hard enough and more people will leave the game. And given how bad EVEs PVE content is those players are unlikely to be replaced by an equivalent number of PVE players.

Pipe bombs....

This is what scouts are for, when you see somebody coming the other way you move your camp.




So? They are likely going to camp the gates because that is how you get into their system.

Asking for changes in stuff, without being aware of how the stuff you want to change actually works, is often an object lesson in "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it".

In the same sense, traveling with a scout provides "risk free" (because of scouts) means of beating those camps. So - do it!

Now, I've put "risk free" in quotation marks, because almost nothing in Eve is ever risk free. And neither is gatecamping. You are right - the campers are fairly safe - they are playing as a group, they keep track of their surroundings and they typically know when to fight and when to flee. And they are taking advantage of the fact that you are not playing with a group, that you are not aware of your surroundings and that you do not know when to jump and when to take another route. However, you can still jump in a bait, tackle the most expensive ship(s) you get your hands on and call in the cavalry or even light a cyno to have your boys drop carriers and supers on their heads. So, the risk is low due to good understanding and usage of the games mechanics, but there is still some risk.

"I don't have/want a scout/friends/cavalry!" I already hear you say. That's fair, not everyone likes to play together with other people in a game that is about playing together with other people - to each their own. But see, I have no problem whatsoever to enter and move about high, low, null and wormhole space - solo, I might add, with old and new characters and even in very cheap, easily obtained ships. And guess what: I rarely loose ships doing so. Occasionally I do, but if that happens, it is (not counting lag, bugs or connection losses, which do occasionally occur in every online game ever, unfortunately) always my fault for either not bringing the right ship for the task or for being too slow or inattentive or for blindly jumping into a situation I am not prepared for. And even then, it's not a big deal, because I never fly ships I cannot afford to loose.

Now, why is it that I don't have any trouble doing what you are making up to be this impossible feat that has you fight against the power and all the odds? Could it be that I am doing something right, that you are doing wrong? In that case, you would just be bad at the game. And what happens if you are bad at a game? You will loose against players who are not as bad at the game. If you feel angry about loosing in a game, that is perfectly normal. Who hasn't thrown a game controller in anger or yelled and cursed at the screen because of a game? If there were no emotions attached to winning or loosing at a game, what would be the point?

However, if you feel so angry about loosing in an online game, that you feel you need to be protected from that level of distress by the games operator because you don't see any other way to avoid those negative feelings, that is clearly an unhealthy level of emotional investment, and you should consider taking a break.

No, you move it “towards” NS. Suppose it goes like this:

NS system -> LS system -> HS system.

If you are camping the HS side of the LS system, you’d move to the NS side if you see somebody coming that way. The campers will gladly kill both players going to a from NS.



Yes they do, I was recently camping in Rancer with some guys there. Based on which way the target was coming we’d jump in the Crie, move to Miro, even go site on the Ambeke gate in Crie.

I can just give you my story. As an explorer the natural way for me to get out of high-sec was by travelling though W-space. Now Wormholes have many dangers lurking inside them but they don´t have gates (though the holes can be camped ofc and often are if we are talking about the special case Thera). Now when I think of it I don´t think I've ever made a jump into a Null or Low-sec system and if a player is that upset by Gatecamps I guess Wormhole travelling is one option.

EDIT: Just made my first few jumps inside Low-sec space, no camps and infact no people what so ever on those systems. I'd say low is only more dangerous at the edges (connections to high) and if you manage to get deeper it's mostly empty systems just like in non-sov Null.

Does it matter?