Player Features and Ideas Discussion

This is what you should have written.

Well I learned something!

So, in theory, the only time you could reasonably lock up and scan a BR at this point is if its leaving a station really, assuming it doesn't have an instawarp.

I mean it kinda makes the bonus worth less I guess, but back to the point of the thread... is there a really a good argument for removing it other than letting people be lazy?

Curious about your opinion on passive targeters.

edit:

Specifically, passive targeters versus active tanking on cargo ships.

This is exactly what I wrote earlier, although they can also be locked up when approaching a station too, if they don't have an instadock. Warping to 0 can land up to 2500m outside 0, allowing gankers to lack and kill BRs reaching their destination.

I'm not at all advocating for its removal in favour of interdiction nullification. That would be just way too OP for a ship that can carry around 12,000 m^3 load, but that doesn't mean the bonus actually provides any benefit to a properly flown BR. The cloak already provides the scan immunity.

In relation to your other question about passive targeters, that works for other haulers and if the BR fails to cloak. Otherwise it's the same as above. A cloaked BR isn't affected by a passive targeter, so if you warp and cloak, there is insufficient time to be scanned at all, and no passive targeting either.

Nah, they are fairly easy to spot. The only difference between a frigate running one and a frigate not running one is the yellow box on the overview. Both will be running sebos and a frigate running a sebo on a gate in highsec is only doing one thing.

By that logic, though, isn't a blockade runner going through gates in hisec only doing one thing?

To be clear, I'm not actually against passive targeters, it just seems like what PTs do (removing some counterplay) in relation to non BR ganks, the BR's antiscan bonus does pretty much the same thing. Both remove some of one or the other player's ability to make informed decisions based on information provided to them by their user interface.

So, where the hauler pilot sees that frig and has to make an uninformed decision on whether or not to click on tanks, the ganker in the BR example has to make an uninformed decision on whether or not to engage. The primary difference here being that the PT is a module and the BR antiscan is a hull bonus.

In both cases, making the "wrong" decision can cost the pilot, or not, based solely on unknown info.

If the hauler sees a frig and doesn't overheat that active tank while aligning, it could mean he loses his haul, or it could mean he's fine and goes on to make ISK. If the ganker sees that BR and kills it, it could mean he wastes his ship on an empty one and loses ISK, or gets a decent value wreck and makes some money.

Or both could do nothing, paralyzed by the lack of info, but in doing nothing only that hauler assumes risk while the ganker doesn't.

So, long way of saying "it seems Ok as long as we are OK with PTs being a thing that exists"

You're basically saying because frigs with sebos are the most common use of a PT they're the only possible use while stating all of the possible uses of the BR.

Also, the counter to the PT is similar to the counter to the BR bonus. Fit different **** before you undock and roll the dice.

balance wise they seem really similar to me. Niche use things that don't have really catastrophic effects on the meta.

Yep.

Last night I violated all my usual protocols for hauling. Like dexter from the TV show...I have my code. Among them are

Don't fly tired,
Don't fly on a less than stable client (I play on mac os client...some patches are iffy to me, last night I know on one run out of jita I was already having issues...I got stuck and froze in gate jump tunnel animation leaving jita and had to dump client and restart ...sign I should have not gone back but I did ike a jackass).

So anyway me the idiot who should have when to bed said one more run back. Make it to jita. Right click dock to everyones fave station. Me half asleep didn't notice I was not getting the nice lady saying docking requested accepted, docking request granted....and in the few seconds of half sleep induced inattentiveness a talos targetted my (edit: other alts's) crane, skipped foreplay and dakka dakka boom.

My load was questionable value. Looking over my LM the 2 items that may have covered a reasonable chunk (maybe if that) of the eventual popping of his talos.....did not drop. He gets to enjoy the finest crap loot drop low meta gear he could have gotten running a few missions. yay him. Maybe a few mil in salvage. Some t2 mods dropped but quick look over has it the cheaper stuff, Didn't even get the crane's cloak. One of the pricier t2's mods on ship or in load, that didn't drop either.

No scan did not save me. The talos rolled the dice and while he didn't lose, he didn't win either. He is not even getting tears. I accept I was an idiot and should have not made that run tired as hell. My mac os client going to crap in jita to maybe add some delayed reaction, not even going to sweat that. Its reason 235084989 to get my ass to a store, get windows 10 and bootcamp install.

Old girl lasted like 6-7 years, made it possible to make billions in this game. She earned her keep and then some.


But yeah...for the ones who said well one time, back in band camp, no scan saved me because they didn't see my expensive load and didn't take the gamble....be thankful and go pay homage to whatever higher power looks over you. I half asleep at the helm gave a talos just a few extra seconds he would not have normally and pop went my ship. No scan did not save me lol. Why I'd rather it be something else. So of more use...when not flying like an idiot half asleep at the wheel lol.

Its always existed.


A gank nado is not an easy trade when they get nothing more than the t2 cloak that was fitted on the blocade runner and a few cargo expanders.

This bonus is probably the most obvious case of something being added to a ship that nobody asked for, makes no sense to have and negatively impacts everyone involved.

It warps like an interceptor, aligns faster than many frigates, has a 10k+ cargo and can warp cloaked. These are the attributes that make BR amazing ships and all but impossible to stop in highsec and extreamly hard to catch in low and null. You don't chose this ship for the cargo scan immunity.

There have been a number of things that were removed for the good of the rest of the game that people wanted to keep. Remote AOE doomsdays for example.