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[November] Introducing the Porpoise

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Darth Bex
Boundless Exploration
#121 - 2016-10-08 05:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Bex
Zurdook wrote:
Ore Hold: 50,000m3 is only useful if u dig alone, TRIPLE IT


It can fit through a frigate sized wormhole ffs. 50K is extremely generous.

Disciple of Bob
PhosGate
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2016-10-08 09:46:03 UTC  |  Edited by: PhosGate
So just to add my opinion on the hull....really wish this was a new design instead of a skinned Noctis, hope that at some point in the future this is adjusted even if it is just ripping the top and the bottom off an Orca and smashing them together.

Since there is no thread about the upcoming augmented mining drones: how about changing them to sentient mining drones, tone them down a bit if need be and add them to the loot table for drone anomolies. Having a chance for a one run BPC for a sentient mining drone as well as the abysmal chance for standard drops from these sites would go a long way to improving these unrated sites instead of just adding a dice roll to the BPC type in the drone regions. We are getting a new combat oriented scan ship that won't have any problems running most of the drone sites littered through low sec. Limit them to not drop in high sec and it may encourage more people to venture out into the other 80% of the game.

As for the Porpoise. Not sure how this will play out as a booster but overall seems like a good ship. Looks to be the absolute perfect solo L3 mission ship for clearing, loot and salvaging as well as mining.
Brown Pathfinder
Black Spot on Parchment
#123 - 2016-10-08 11:14:45 UTC
When will the new ships and new stats go live on the test server?
I only saw the new command burst modules and ammo for those but orca still had the old stats and no porpoise P
Also orca seems broken you can only run 1 link now on the test server.
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#124 - 2016-10-08 12:20:16 UTC
Brown Pathfinder wrote:
When will the new ships and new stats go live on the test server?


I think we'd all like to know that.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#125 - 2016-10-09 06:40:50 UTC
Would it be too much to ask for one of these command ships to be able to harvest gas properly?
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#126 - 2016-10-09 08:13:08 UTC  |  Edited by: 13kr1d1
Zurdook wrote:
Ore Hold: 50,000m3 is only useful if u dig alone, TRIPLE IT



Just no. Its a command ship, meant to boost other ships. While I don't like this concept beyond actual command skills like mining foreman, and some ship with fleet booster, if it makes other people more efficient, its own ore hold needs to be crap.

They have to just build an actual CHEAP ore-only half-freighter. Needs something like 800k m3, Can Compress, and has some module slots for speed, defense, or whatever.

I'd be down for ORE conversions based on T1 freighter hulls with better agility and warp speed.

Scuzzy Logic wrote:
Would it be too much to ask for one of these command ships to be able to harvest gas properly?



Maybe if you want to huff gas you should buy a frigate that does it. A command ship is for boosts and minimal protection.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#127 - 2016-10-09 08:16:52 UTC
Darryn Lowe wrote:
Can the Porpoise be used on the free accounts?

Due to being made redundant and having to take a lower paid job I'm not in a position to spend money on Eve for two players but if the Porpoise can be flown under the free account then it makes sense for it to exist. You can run a mining op on free accounts and still make some nice ISK for a low level op.



Earthling Hibou wrote:
Darryn Lowe wrote:
Can the Porpoise be used on the free accounts?.


No. Several important skills are unavailable to alphas, who can't even use barges.


Its true. You won't be able to game the system. The horror. If you want to play with a free account, load up that alpha with a mining frig and go to town with a mining op that owns a porpoise or orca.

The names are still terrible.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#128 - 2016-10-09 08:18:06 UTC
Vivianne Athonille wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Penance Toralen wrote:
CCP Fozzie,

Will the Medium Micro Jump Drive be able to be fit a on Porpoise?


This is an excellent question.


It is indeed an excellent question. Once upon a time I even flew an Eos to provide mining boosts while having tank and drone damage, and the MMJD was a great tool to have on hand. Among other things, it made crossing to the far side of a belt trivial. Have the barges warp off, jump the Eos 100km, warp the barges back to the Eos.



Since you can warp to any asteroid that is about 100km or more away totally on your own, you wasted your time. I was just doing that tonight in a reti

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices
Darth Bex
Boundless Exploration
#129 - 2016-10-09 08:56:26 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
Since you can warp to any asteroid that is about 100km or more away totally on your own, you wasted your time. I was just doing that tonight in a reti


Try 150.

Disciple of Bob
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#130 - 2016-10-09 20:48:53 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
Vivianne Athonille wrote:
FT Diomedes wrote:
Penance Toralen wrote:
CCP Fozzie,

Will the Medium Micro Jump Drive be able to be fit a on Porpoise?


This is an excellent question.


It is indeed an excellent question. Once upon a time I even flew an Eos to provide mining boosts while having tank and drone damage, and the MMJD was a great tool to have on hand. Among other things, it made crossing to the far side of a belt trivial. Have the barges warp off, jump the Eos 100km, warp the barges back to the Eos.



Since you can warp to any asteroid that is about 100km or more away totally on your own, you wasted your time. I was just doing that tonight in a reti


Please learn basic game mechanics before you start commenting.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

hercule veridic
Guardians of Toutatis
#131 - 2016-10-09 23:20:39 UTC
yes but why we lose the old bonus that he avaits there on hexumers
Penance Toralen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#132 - 2016-10-10 03:06:50 UTC
Reflecting on this from the barge update post;

CCPFozzie wrote:
For a bit of insight into the current usage of the top 7 mining ships, here's the breakdown of mining yield by volume (last 90 days including ore, ice, and gas):
Retriever: 23%
Mackinaw: 22%
Hulk: 21%
Skiff: 14%
Procurer: 8%
Covetor: 7%
Venture: 4%
Other: 1%


I would take it that the Prospect and Endurance really have not been embraced by harvesters. Now with the addition of the Porpoise for even more Shattered Wormhole mining. Will there be changes around the introduction of Porpoise to further incentualise this area of play?
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2016-10-10 04:45:56 UTC
This is an interesting little ship.

One of the problems that I have with it is that it basically takes the same amount of time to train for as the orca. And the Orca is by far the better booster.

Now that being said this sized hull is far more maneuverable and has the nice feature of being relatively cheap.

But I think that overall most people are still going to end up in the Orca. The boosts and overall dps/ehp and cargo/ore hold sizes outweight most of the negatives.

I think that adding some sort of specialization to the hull might be warranted. The ship is potentially small enough and fast enough to use in WH's. One of the main reasons to go into a WH is not for the rocks, but for the gas clouds. I think some sort of bonus to gas would provide this ship with a niche and ensure that it is actually being used. either by allowing it to directly mine the gas or giving it a bonus to its boosts for gas or even being able to fit gas dones.

Otherwise I think this hull will end up like the primae, nice to own for a collector but not really used that much. I hope im wrong, but i just dont see this ship being the go to ship for miners.
Darryn Lowe
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#134 - 2016-10-10 05:43:50 UTC
Penance Toralen wrote:
Reflecting on this from the barge update post;

CCPFozzie wrote:
For a bit of insight into the current usage of the top 7 mining ships, here's the breakdown of mining yield by volume (last 90 days including ore, ice, and gas):
Retriever: 23%
Mackinaw: 22%
Hulk: 21%
Skiff: 14%
Procurer: 8%
Covetor: 7%
Venture: 4%
Other: 1%


I would take it that the Prospect and Endurance really have not been embraced by harvesters. Now with the addition of the Porpoise for even more Shattered Wormhole mining. Will there be changes around the introduction of Porpoise to further incentualise this area of play?

My favourite ship is the Endurance. It's a brilliant ship and even though I have level 5 Mastery over every single mining ship the one I use the most is the Endurance. It's only slightly slower than a Skiff with the same hold. A fantastic ice miner.
Vivianne Athonille
WHolely Unacceptable
#135 - 2016-10-10 11:12:55 UTC
What about including a minimum Ship Maintenance Bay (as was done with the Nestor) to support refits? Seems to be the only thing still missing when compared to the Orca and Rorqual.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#136 - 2016-10-10 18:12:29 UTC
Does skills layout already available for this ship? just checked on SiSi and couldn't find it.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#137 - 2016-10-11 00:27:10 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:


Scuzzy Logic wrote:
Would it be too much to ask for one of these command ships to be able to harvest gas properly?



Maybe if you want to huff gas you should buy a frigate that does it. A command ship is for boosts and minimal protection.


The problem with this analogy is that the Orca and Rorqal are extremely efficient at having about a third to half the yield of a mining barge, while the poor gas huffers are stuck at the Venture levels of harvesting.

Not to mention that, despite the Gas Cloud Harvesting skill giving us the ability to use 5 GCH, we have yet to have had a ship with 5 hardpoints and an ore hold. Not even bonused hardpoints, just 5.

I'd kill for a Miasmos with 5 hardpoints.

Also, Thile, the porpoise can provide additional yield AND protection for a mining group or an ice mining group, it cnnot assist a gas mining group with its yield directly. This could be resolved with gas drones, I guess...
Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#138 - 2016-10-11 00:30:00 UTC
Regan Rotineque wrote:
This is an interesting little ship.

One of the problems that I have with it is that it basically takes the same amount of time to train for as the orca. And the Orca is by far the better booster.

Now that being said this sized hull is far more maneuverable and has the nice feature of being relatively cheap.

But I think that overall most people are still going to end up in the Orca. The boosts and overall dps/ehp and cargo/ore hold sizes outweight most of the negatives.

I think that adding some sort of specialization to the hull might be warranted. The ship is potentially small enough and fast enough to use in WH's. One of the main reasons to go into a WH is not for the rocks, but for the gas clouds. I think some sort of bonus to gas would provide this ship with a niche and ensure that it is actually being used. either by allowing it to directly mine the gas or giving it a bonus to its boosts for gas or even being able to fit gas dones.

Otherwise I think this hull will end up like the primae, nice to own for a collector but not really used that much. I hope im wrong, but i just dont see this ship being the go to ship for miners.


MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY, but as soon as you mention Gas Clouds or Wormholes I think the devs plug up their ears and go LALALALALA like they did for the market collapse after the removal of drone poo...
Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#139 - 2016-10-11 00:36:45 UTC
Rhaegon Aesir wrote:
If you're going to give us ice mining drones, is there a reason not to give gas mining drones too ? I really like the idea of thrones porpoise for wormhole space. With its dps drones and remote rep capability it would nicely augment a small fleet of tanky ventures or prospects...except that it doesn't seem to have any gas mining capability.

So the porpoise can mine ice with its fleet, it can mine ore with its fleet, but if it wants to support a gas mining fleet...it cant do anything except sit there and provide boosts. And let's be real here, in wormholes gas mining is far more common than ice or ore mining.

Please CCP, don't forget us wormholers again :(


CCP hates both gas and wormholes. They forgot to add reactions to their new fancy research platform, or so it seems.

But yeah, GIVE THE GAS GUYS EQUAL TREATMENT, CCP!
Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#140 - 2016-10-11 00:40:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Scuzzy Logic
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
13kr1d1 wrote:
The benefits of being in groups should always come from character trained skills and a fleet booster. That'd make it more intuitive, as it'd reflect real life to a large degree.

Industrial command ships hould never have been given bonuses to improve people's mining abilities. So what good are they then, you ask? They need, and often do have, other, unique bonuses that can improve the operation without being a drag.

In fact, isn't the one of the Orca's strong suits the tractor nonsense? The porpoise isn't needed. People need to start using the noctis to tractor jetcans of bunches of people in a belt into one spot for a hauler to have easy pickup. A lot of the things the orca can do can be filled by other things, like you buy a simple MTU and stick it somewhere on the hauler flight plan, and it does the can grabbing from those covetors or hulks, etc.

We don't need the porpoise, it doesn't have a purpose. People just need to stop being scared and go out there and mine with a fleet booster in regular ships. Either the orca or the pose will be redundant.
Noctis + Hauler = Porpoise. What you stated people should do is pretty much half of what it does. The other half being providing boosts. The Orca is a better version of that sure, but stating one will make the other redundant is like suggesting no one would fly a Thorax because they have the skills for a Deimos. Or for that matter Barge vs Exhumer. Barges get plenty of use despite being inferior Exhumers in part because of functional similarity alongside strong cost difference.



Now that I REALLY THINK about it, why are the Noctis bonuses not just slapped on the Porpoise and the two ships merged as one? Doesn't seem like it would be broken, IMHO, especially considering the poor Noctis is usually outperformed by the much cheaper destroyers.