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[November] Orca Changes

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Igzorn Buelle
#81 - 2016-10-05 03:14:29 UTC
man i cant wait for the changes. i was skeptic about the mining burst thing, but since it now make sense to sit in the belts i am more at ease. at last it will nomore be confined to a pos or citadel.
IV Dystopia
Perkone
Caldari State
#82 - 2016-10-05 03:28:08 UTC
Sir SmashAlot wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Ripard Teg wrote:
Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.

Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?

DPS is useless if you can't apply it.


Guard your fleet with a fast-locking destroyer or interceptor, with sentry drones deployed by the mining fleet assisted to the guard. At a pinch you can use a scan-resolution-boosted hauler for the same job.

A lateral option is to have two Orcas, each providing one command burst and permanent remote reps to the rest of the fleet.

Fit for agility rather than tank, and warp out before hostiles land on grid.

Fit warp core stabilisers and warp out before getting blown up.


Drone assists do not work in high sec for killing suspects or criminals



Honest question without my usual snarky sarcasm.

Why does everything associated with high-sec have to devolve into ganking?

Basing the entire high-sec meta on the potential of getting or avoiding ganking is crippling.

Be creative and Jog on...(DOTS)
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2016-10-05 04:37:53 UTC
Avon Salinder wrote:
Holy crap. I was expecting more power for this ship but this might be a little bit nuts.

I will point out the obvious here that these changes make the mackinaw and skiff obsolete. We seem to have another Svipul effect going on - ships that have been underpowered for a long time get a massive buff, ruining game balance and making other ships in a similar role pointless.

I foresee a future of nothing but orcas in highsec belts, all but immune to ganking and quite possibly leading to a proliferation of bots, since the ore hold is so vast a pilot can just walk away from their keyboard ... unless there are further mining changes in the works to provide more engaging gameplay of course Cool



I am always puzzled when i see people type afk miners.....

You need to target and assign drones/strips to the roids. This cannot be automated, unless you want your account banned. most high sec roids are quit small and eaten in minuted by a hulk or mack....so walking away and eating a belt is simply not happening, unless you are a bot or using illegal software.

As for the fear of fleets of orca's I dont think the overall boost to the mining drones will lead to that for most industrialists. Im sure you will see more of them out in the belts now, but that is because they have to be there, instead of irbiting stations or docked in a pos.

Overall I am pleased with the changes I see for the hull. I think I too would have preferred a 5/5/3 layout but the additional slots are appreciated. The increased ore bay is a very welcome addition allowing the ship to stay on field longer for support.

I do agree with the suggestion that the ship scan resolution needs to be increased, the dps is not usefull if you cannot apply it. Right now she locks about as fast as a snail.

I am a bit confused regarding the mindlink - it loses the 15% mining yield bonus, how is this being offset?
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#84 - 2016-10-05 04:57:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
IV Dystopia wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
IV Dystopia wrote:
Can I get a cloak on my Orca and maybe a BFG?...

You can already get a cloak on an Orca.


/wink not a Cov Ops Cloak...sweetie...

/throwup there's no advantage to a covops over any other cloak for the Orca.

Covops provides 2 general advantages:

1. no reduction in sub-warp speed
2. warp cloaked

In relation to 1, the Orca aligns like a brick anyway, so aligning while cloaked in order to warp and relying on a covops cloak is no better than MWD/cloak trick. Actually worse. Anyone that wants to decloak an aligning Orca would have to be dead not to be able to find a ship so big and so slow. So in terms of aligning to warp, covops !> other cloak.

If it's already cloaked and just moving, then the speed isn't critical. Being cloaked is providing the greatest aspect of risk management and all 3 cloaks are ok in that regard.

In relation to 2, again there is no major advantage. You are either already cloaked in a position you want to be in and moving, or in such a big slow ship, you'd want to be ensuring wherever you are headed is already safe enough that you don't need a cloak when warping.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
BahWeepGrahNaWeep MiniBom
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2016-10-05 05:40:37 UTC
Echo Mande wrote:
Please, pretty please, add ore compression as an Orca/Rorqual ability, even if this has to be enabled with a module and skill. Ore compression in the field would IMO be much more useful, and support the fleet much better, than a larger ore hold would. It would allow the Orca/Rorqual to tractor in cans, compress and store the contents and then allow a single hauler to be far more useful hauling compressed ore/ice to station. It would also keep the command pilot more involved and in the field. Not giving compression to the Porpoise would give the Orca/Rorqual an extra force multiplier bonus over the Porpoise.

On a related note, are the command ships' ore holds accessable to the fleet, like a fleet hangar?


I completely agree with this, the orca needs compression or unlock the rorq and give it hisec access. it is a major pita to have to have 1 person dedicated to flying a cargo ship just to take ore back to station. The orca is large enough that it should have it available to it. I still do not truely understand why a rorq can not mine in hisec. I know most will say it isn't needed, but i say it i as it has compression availble to it. what would be nicer than to be able to stay out and go belt to belt until full of compressed ore. it would be alot better than ok guy, hold i gotta unload again or hey bill, need you to switch to cargo for 5 minutes. If you can compress, you can stay out longer, that simple.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#86 - 2016-10-05 06:25:50 UTC
Sullen Decimus wrote:
Altrue wrote:
Awww nice buff, but I'm a bit sad that the SMA size remains the same. I like this assembled ship suitcase ability of the Orca. Makes for a very tiny mobile home, I'd have loved to see some thoughts given to that kind of nomadic gameplay.


Making the sma bigger would start to cut into the bowhead territory. Rather than doing that though I mentioned taking a look at the barge sizes and if you read the blog they are reducing the volume of the hulk/covetor by 25%. That should make those mobile ops a little easier :)

Even reducing those 2 by 25% doesn't change anything as far as the SMA goes, you can still only fit 2 of them in an Orca.
Before - 4 Skiffs (100K), 2 Mack's (150K), or 2 Hulks (200K).
After - Still the same, the reduction in size has no effect on hauling ships.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#87 - 2016-10-05 06:56:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Sgt Ocker
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Jin Kugu wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:


The EHP is going up because it's actually going somewhere useful if you tank it or want to receive reps from friendly help. And if is a good word to use there since enough paper thin orcas have died to say it's not obvious to everyone what (or even if apparently) to fit. Even more soon when drone mining rigs/DDAs/500mn MWDs aren't laughable suggestions.

And someone's still going to fit expanders
.


Orcas can already fit a pretty massive tank. I would be all in favour of making more of that EHP shields instead of hull but keeping the massive hull plus a massive shield boost is too much.

Agreed that the hull drop is pitiful compared to what was gained in shield HP and utility, but I can see the logic: It's moving to an always in the belt role, it's becoming an active miner, a logi? and a capable defender.

So more HP I guess.

As a lowsec miner - I'd liked to have seen a 3rd lowslot and T2 resists but as my orca will now have a slightly better chance of not only surviving the odd attack but have the ability to deal some DPS as a deterrent, I say these changes are just about right.

No more being held on grid for 10 minutes by a lone ceptor while his buddies travel 10 jumps to get on the kill.
-- - -- - -- - --
A compression module for the Orca would be nice, having to dock it up every 16 or 17 minutes to empty it or have a freighter on standby (especially in lowsec), pretty much defeats its ongrid role.

Suggestion; Highslot module, lowsec/nulsec activation only, 300 Heavy water to activate (reduces by 25% per lvl Capital Industrial Ships) 60 second activation time, no auto repeat. Works just like its Rorqual counterpart by immobilizing the Orca for the duration of the cycle (has a nice clear animation so everyone nearby can see it is active)

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
IV Dystopia
Perkone
Caldari State
#88 - 2016-10-05 08:00:17 UTC  |  Edited by: IV Dystopia
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
IV Dystopia wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
IV Dystopia wrote:
Can I get a cloak on my Orca and maybe a BFG?...

You can already get a cloak on an Orca.


/wink not a Cov Ops Cloak...sweetie...

/throwup there's no advantage to a covops over any other cloak for the Orca.

Covops provides 2 general advantages:

1. no reduction in sub-warp speed
2. warp cloaked

In relation to 1, the Orca aligns like a brick anyway, so aligning while cloaked in order to warp and relying on a covops cloak is no better than MWD/cloak trick. Actually worse. Anyone that wants to decloak an aligning Orca would have to be dead not to be able to find a ship so big and so slow. So in terms of aligning to warp, covops !> other cloak.

If it's already cloaked and just moving, then the speed isn't critical. Being cloaked is providing the greatest aspect of risk management and all 3 cloaks are ok in that regard.

In relation to 2, again there is no major advantage. You are either already cloaked in a position you want to be in and moving, or in such a big slow ship, you'd want to be ensuring wherever you are headed is already safe enough that you don't need a cloak when warping.



Thank you sooooo much for your wisdom and knowledge.

All I can hope is that you never stop sharing it with the Eve Community.

.......(DOT)......(DOT).....(MORE DOTS).......
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#89 - 2016-10-05 08:05:44 UTC
IV Dystopia wrote:
Thank you sooooo much for your wisdom and knowledge.

All I can hope is that you never stop sharing it with the Eve Community.

.......(DOT)......(DOT).....(MORE DOTS).......

Thank you for the sentiment and I agree.

Wisdom is worth sharing.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
#90 - 2016-10-05 08:34:04 UTC
been trying and trying, and starting to bleed from my eyes and ears

the numbers, my god the numbers

what will yield fit miners (w/ max skill + implants) be sitting at with the new version of the boosts

max skill orca + foreman link, providing boosts for 3 max yield skiffs w/ implants
MrB99
Astral Mining
Astral Industries
#91 - 2016-10-05 09:10:50 UTC
Fozzie -

Can you comment on what the game design thinking behind originally making the default Orca lock time so slow, and keeping it that way if it's supposed to have a new role of defending the fleet?

Thx
Anne Sol
State War Academy
Caldari State
#92 - 2016-10-05 09:51:12 UTC
Jin Kugu wrote:
TomyLobo wrote:
Goati wrote:
Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.

Bring more dps?


People working together need to be continuesly nerfed compared to lazy people.

Once upon a time eve had great stories that happend in high sec like hulkageddon and ice interdictions. Because lazy people like you keep whining for more EHP that potential dissapeared. Now not much of note ever happens in high sec.


Well, gankers having a butt hurt due to changes in industrials, talking about ships they ain't using, and hoping to nerf industrials to make them flying piñatas, because it is so great to shoot ships which can't defend themselves.

The only thing would be great in the orca changes is to have it align in 25 seconds instead of 50 and rorqual 60-ish.
iTransport
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#93 - 2016-10-05 11:04:36 UTC  |  Edited by: iTransport
As an Orca pilot that uses it as a suitcase, i love all these changes. Harder to gank and can fit more tank, increased agility, and it can now use most wormholes. The 800DPS is just the cherry on top.
Goati
Doomheim
#94 - 2016-10-05 11:10:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Goati
CCP went too far, the orca does too much now, and all for just 700m. The EHP is insane, that's one thing that's crazy. The other and more ruining thing is the high yield. The orca should not have the same yield as an Exhumer. The Orca is meant to support Exhumers, not behave as a supertank afk miner.

Reduce Orca yield to be about 50% of Exhumer yield and everything will be right. Exhumers should be primary miners, not the support vessel. How anyone could not see this defies belief.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2016-10-05 11:22:17 UTC
TheSmokingHertog wrote:
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
We are getting Ice Mining Drones?
Or did we already have them?


They are new, read the whole blog ;)

Read it when I had more time. It looks like it will be a nice addition to the mining field.

On a separate note, when the DDAs were introduced messing with Drone ROF did nasty things to the server IIRC. Is that something that has been fixed now, and does this mean that drones could be looked at for a tweak for different ROF for different races and the DDAs go from pure Damage boosting to DPS boosting?

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
Goati
Doomheim
#96 - 2016-10-05 11:53:07 UTC
Jin Kugu wrote:
Ripard Teg wrote:
Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.

Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?

DPS is useless if you can't apply it.


"My 530k ehp afk mining boat isn't strong enough!"

EDIT: apparently a t2 fit orca will easily hit 530k ehp, uggh


Calculations show a T2 orca can now easily reach more than 600k EHP.
TomyLobo
U2EZ
#97 - 2016-10-05 11:58:31 UTC  |  Edited by: TomyLobo
Jin Kugu wrote:
TomyLobo wrote:
Goati wrote:
Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.

Bring more dps?


People working together need to be continuesly nerfed compared to lazy people.

Once upon a time eve had great stories that happend in high sec like hulkageddon and ice interdictions. Because lazy people like you keep whining for more EHP that potential dissapeared. Now not much of note ever happens in high sec.

Spare me the BS, plz. Suicide ganking, I believe, should always be about getting a point across and the emotions that come with it, not making profit, which is what most in that community make it out to be. If fielding enough talos/tornados to kill a well fit orca is a problem for you, maybe it's time to look at another occupation?
Elenahina
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#98 - 2016-10-05 12:32:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Elenahina
Sir SmashAlot wrote:
Mara Rinn wrote:
Ripard Teg wrote:
Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.

Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?

DPS is useless if you can't apply it.


Guard your fleet with a fast-locking destroyer or interceptor, with sentry drones deployed by the mining fleet assisted to the guard. At a pinch you can use a scan-resolution-boosted hauler for the same job.

A lateral option is to have two Orcas, each providing one command burst and permanent remote reps to the rest of the fleet.

Fit for agility rather than tank, and warp out before hostiles land on grid.

Fit warp core stabilisers and warp out before getting blown up.


Drone assists do not work in high sec for killing suspects or criminals


The guard command works ok though, afaik. Or keep an resebo frigate in your SMA and have one of your barge pilots switch out when trouble appears. There are a multitude of ways to deal with slow lock times.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#99 - 2016-10-05 12:42:49 UTC
Anne Sol wrote:

Well, gankers having a butt hurt due to changes in industrials, talking about ships they ain't using, and hoping to nerf industrials to make them flying piñatas, because it is so great to shoot ships which can't defend themselves.

The only thing would be great in the orca changes is to have it align in 25 seconds instead of 50 and rorqual 60-ish.

Since I actually use those ships myself to great effect (not for mining) I am absolutely thrilled about those changes. Especially the Orca will be an awesome tool. The only thing that is missing is a buff to the SMA which would be a really great assets for everyone using the Orca correctly.

Also shooting ships is not the only weapon in our arsenal. Expect some increased bumping action. Really looking forward to provide some nice content for the miners with this new tools.

Praise James

Evil RatKid
Jin Kugu
Make Luv Not War
Goonswarm Federation
#100 - 2016-10-05 13:14:38 UTC
TomyLobo wrote:
Jin Kugu wrote:
TomyLobo wrote:
Goati wrote:
Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.

Bring more dps?


People working together need to be continuesly nerfed compared to lazy people.

Once upon a time eve had great stories that happend in high sec like hulkageddon and ice interdictions. Because lazy people like you keep whining for more EHP that potential dissapeared. Now not much of note ever happens in high sec.

Spare me the BS, plz. Suicide ganking, I believe, should always be about getting a point across and the emotions that come with it, not making profit, which is what most in that community make it out to be. If fielding enough talos/tornados to kill a well fit orca is a problem for you, maybe it's time to look at another occupation?


Luckily no one cares what you think suicide ganking should be about