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Dev Blog: Introducing Clone States & the Future of Access to EVE

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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#401 - 2016-08-31 18:52:37 UTC
Voxinian wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:
Lunarstorm95 wrote:
I feel im the only one that sees how this could turn into micro transactions SUPER quick....



That's the entire purpose of this.




Any company needs to make changes to survive. Good or bad, micro transactions have become a normal thing on the gaming market and it is proven to work (most of the time). If that will make the game/product better or not is an other discussion. In the end it's about CCP having a profitable game. Without profit, no EVE.



Micro-transactions... Ahhh all those clothes I could buy if only there was a common area on stations where I could walk around and chat with other players whilst showing them off ..... maybe someone should suggest it for future development
Mina Askold
GSF Logistics and Posting Reserves
Goonswarm Federation
#402 - 2016-08-31 18:52:49 UTC
With the new changes coming to eve my drive to play is going fast. I don't know how the rest of you feel but this whole F2P idea just screams fail, and if its as bad as most people think it will be or heck even half this may be the end for me.

Unless they make free accounts yellow safety only this is going to be a **** show, and I don't see myself staying for it.

I will be sticking it out to see how it goes but I'm not holding my breath

They have already nerfed or dumbed down just about everything in this game that took even a small bit of skill and have taken the griefing to a whole new lvl I just can't see myself giving them more money or isk to continue to ruin a game I have loved for so many years

At one point I ran many accounts at times as many as 10, I have been running one for over a year now......main reason for the trim down is the changes suck most of the changes they claim people asked for when they didn't.....

CCP you act like you know what your game needs...do you even play? almost all the changes in the past year have made things worse on almost every level save for the few forumwarriors ...........it was a good run for almost 10 years myself but if the crap keeps up 1 will be zero.....I seem to remember a letter from hilmar saying that this **** would stop and that they would return to the core of the game they loved so much....I can see now that was a total line of BS.......

I know nothing lost and don't let the door hit me on the way out but its that exact attitude that has taken 40K to 25k and no you can't have my stuff
Zockhandra
Canadian Bacon.
Honorable Third Party
#403 - 2016-08-31 18:53:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Zockhandra
Zappity wrote:
Zockhandra wrote:
Q: What happens if my subscription ends while I'm logged in, will I be converted to Alpha in the middle of a fight?

A: In these cases, you will remain an Omega until the next time you log out. We won't ever turn skills off during the middle of a session.

Quote from CCP Announcement


Sorry, But does this mean that if your clone gets turned to alpha, then you cant fly any of the ships you spent 7 years training for?
If that is the case, that is an extremely unrewarding system and (personally) ridiculously unfair to your Veteren pilots (who have funded you for more than 10 years).

If you cannot use the skills you have trained after x amount of years, whats the point in paying to aqquire them? Theres no progression there.


Consider a player returning after say a 4 month inactivity. Now they cannot fly their ratting mission battleships and make enough money to buy a plex? Thats super restrictive.

At the moment that player can't even log into the game, let alone fly those ships.



PRECISELY, Theres no precedant for them having a BAD experience and leaving because they cant log in. As opposed to having their Family jewels severed and left for dead. How are new players going to cope with that? "Oh i spent $40" but actually its for nothing?

Shield are red, Armor is too, i slapped my heavy neut, all over you. Fingers crossed, broken shattered and burned, across from the bubble and into your hull.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#404 - 2016-08-31 18:54:03 UTC
One thing I didn't like about SWTOR was how much it waved "Sub now and we'll get these annoying messages out of your face!"

As for the farming and botting problem, let's just say I've seen what happens when you have a lot of passive systems in an F2P EVE-like before. I don't play that game any more, either. Making tech 1 ammo, ships, and mods with "casual friend" accounts will be a thing. It doesn't cost anything but a few steps to anonymize. In that game, infrastructure in whole star systems had been wiped out by admin action for being run by bot and other illicit multiple account player activity.

Personal experience says the correct response to this change is to run away screaming and not look back.

A signature :o
Naxirian
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#405 - 2016-08-31 18:54:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Naxirian
CCP Falcon wrote:
Greetings capsuleers!

Today, we are happy to announce a new change that’s coming to EVE Online in November that will fundamentally change New Eden, and how our pilots access it via the EVE client.

In short, cloning scientists in New Eden have developed a new method of cloning that revolves around two new clone states, Alpha and Omega. Omega clones will be familiar to all our current players, and will operate just like a subscribed character does today. Alpha clones will be accessible for free, without subscription, and will be capable of training an assigned set of skills themed to a character’s race.

A Dev Blog has been published by Team Size Matters today with more details on this feature, and a questions and answers section where we look to clear up some initial concerns and questions regarding this change.


Please give Alpha accounts a restriction to prevent them being logged on at the same time as other accounts. I see nothing in the dev blog that would prevent users with high end system from logging in 3-4 low skill logi alts, or griffin alts, or using tons of free Alpha accounts to pull FW missions and farm tens of millions of LP (essentially destroying the FW LP markets), or any number of other abuses.

The system as an idea is great, I like that new players can essentially try the game for free for as long as they like, and progress to a meaningful stage without their trial ending. But it should have the same restrictions to multiple log ins that a trial account has or it will get abused beyond belief by existing players.

Also please prevent alpha accounts from being able to use safety red. They can and will get abused as gank alts. I guarantee it. You don't need SP to gank in a Catalyst, the hull itself has no damage bonus.

Asus Crosshair VI Hero X370 Motherboard

AMD Ryzen 7 1700 @ 4GHz

2 x R9 290X 4GB Crossfire @ 1150MHz

Full EKWB Custom Watercooling Loop

16GB Corsair Vengeance LED Red DDR4 RAM @ 3000MHz
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#406 - 2016-08-31 18:54:16 UTC
Captain Campion wrote:
It strikes me as odd that you need a separate account for each alt - try remembering all that login info?! - rather than just being able to make all these on one account and train them all - but when you make a subscription just choose which character it applies to.

Is there a good reason for this? To me it just seems bad.

in b4 someone says "to me you just seem bad". <3 eve


Keepass is an awesome thing. I don't know any of my Eve passwords (they are really long psuedo-randomly generated to prevent people from getting into my account). And my usernames are also stored there as well. Copy paste, copy paste, log in.

The reason for multiple accounts used to be training your alts and main simultaneously plus logging in multiple accounts to do things.

Now with the free Alpha clone accounts it could be possible for people to make a very large number of alt accounts and abuse this feature by logging them all in at once and doing stuff. There maybe some validity to this, but this can be mitigated by limiting the number of logged in Alpha accounts.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#407 - 2016-08-31 18:57:56 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Iowa Banshee wrote:
Neva Second wrote:
In an effort to increase players I think its a great concept, if I hadn't purchased a 6mo subscription out of the gate I would not still be playing years later. Eve takes time to wrap your head around and see how the game differs from other MMO's. Having time to train up some basic skills and experience it without hitting your wallet is a good thing for everyone.

*However: As a bitter vet who uses capitals pretty frequently I would love CCP to reconsider the Cyno skill exclusion. Many players like me have 1-2 accounts with nothing but cyno alts to help move their caps around the board.




So with free accounts you could have 30 or 40 Cyno alts logged off in every system in your region.

On the bright side hunting capitals would become a thing again ... although much much easier

Alpha can't use cyno.


And a good thing too
... else my reply to someone requesting that Alphas be allowed to use cynos would be totally pointless
May'n Nome
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#408 - 2016-08-31 18:58:37 UTC  |  Edited by: May'n Nome
20 Pages already...Shocked I am glad I skipped much of it.


First off; if any devs beat me to answering on any of these thoughts, let me know. Below. I will be watching this thread closely.

First, I saw concerns about Jump Cloning...so I did a search in the article that lists the skills available to the Alpha Clones and guess what is NOT in the list for any of them...INFOMORPH PSYCHOLOGY...

Yes, it is bolded, underlined, and in caps for a good reason. Apparently some of you forgot that skill is needed for Jump Clones AND how to use the Crtl-F function to find on a page a word you are looking for. All I had to type in was Infomorph to find out that it was nowhere in the list. So yeah, Jump Clones are out for the Alphas already.

Now looking through the skills, I am glad to see some limits placed. But some of the limits could be upped to give the Newbro Alphas a chance against some of us with even 8 months of experience and skills in the game.


First, beef up the Armor and Shield Resistance Compensation skills to 3. This will allow them to get more out of their tanking for Shield or Armor.


Second, limit logins for an Alpha to one account on one computer and not on the same email address and IP address. Do not know if there is a way to detect people hiding their IP address. Any attempt to login that character from another computer should be met with an alert or suspension to prevent multiboxing or throwaway Ganking fleets. Yes, this applies to people who have Omega Accounts as well.


Third, set safeties to yellow at minimum in High Security Space.


Fourth ( and this is from personal experience) allow some some form of planetary interaction (Cert 2 or 3 maybe?) for Alphas. Either of those Certs limits their impact on the in-game while letting them explore this facet of the game.

Fifth, checking APIs for Account Type. This allows Corps and Alliances to recruit them if they want or tell them no and why. Also make this something that can be picked in Corp searches for Alpha-friendly Corps/Alliances.

Sixth, we need a new "This is EVE" trailer for the Alphas to entice them. Big smile


Anyways, this is my two cents on the matter. Let me know what you guys think.

"Threefold is the time's pace: the future comes not in haste, the present is gone arrow fast, eternally still remains the past."
Nire Retipuj
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#409 - 2016-08-31 18:59:38 UTC
I feel a little like I should be reimbursed ca$h money for the monthly fees I paid up until I reached 5mil SP back in I think starting in 2006. X

Free2Play now, huh?

Let's see how long it takes before CCP becomes NCSoft.

Let's see how long it takes before Eve becomes WoW.

Let's see how long it takes before logging into Eve is a chore and a lesson in tolerance more than it is fun game to play.

Then I can just get the same experience in RL for free.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#410 - 2016-08-31 19:02:07 UTC
Zockhandra wrote:
Okay, so what happens when you need to evac your stuff from a pos/Citadel. But then you cant fly your x ship.
Better activate a PLEX first.

Quote:
Or your in a super, but only you cant jump and you cant pay a sub because x problem? You now cant jump or defend yourself, you have to stay logged off because suddenly your clone decides "oops im actually super dumb"
Yep, better stay logged off, just like what happens today for accounts with no sub/PLEX.

Quote:
Alternatively, your a new player who can no longer afford to sub after 4 months of subbed play, now all your skills are gone and your back to square one?
Yep, that's reasonable for a f2p model.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#411 - 2016-08-31 19:03:22 UTC
tasman devil wrote:
Fine, great.

Team Size Matters wrote:
The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are, but we are communicating now specifically so that they can help gather your feedback and bring it to us for the summit in September, where we will be flying out the entire CSM for the first time. If you would rather talk to us directly, the forum thread for this blog is a great place to start and we will be opening up other channels, such as a Reddit AMA, in the coming weeks.


But do please tell me why the hell do we vote for CSM again when they aren't even notified of this.

I mean English may be a second language to me but it does seem to me that you neither thought nor really wanted to bring in on such a game-changing decision.

Also they are now relegated to "ticket counters". Nice work!



They notified the CSM and us at about the same time with 2 months before this is implemented. This way they can get maximum feedback. What is the problem here, you'd rather be kept in the dark longer?

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
ArmyOfMe
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#412 - 2016-08-31 19:05:16 UTC
Roenok Baalnorn wrote:
[

5) These free players are going to suck up resources that are already heavily competed for. Specifically exploration sites. As it catches on we are going to have to compete more and more with free players to the point where grinding is going to become so grindy thats literally all you can do in game is try to grind a few million isk. So CCP will have to increase the amount of resources seeded in the game to match the demand, and honestly they havent been impressing me lately. I feel like they are concentrating a lot of revenue generation and not so much on making the game entertaining. I feel like what is done for upgrades in game is a rush job that is usually delayed multiple times and still buggy as hell when it comes out but revenue generation seems to be in nearly every major update.


Roll
Yeah, because all of this was such an issue back when the PCU was double what it is now Roll

GM Guard > I must ask you not to use the petition option like this again but i personally would finish the chicken sandwich first so it won´t go to waste. The spaghetti will keep and you can use it the next time you get hungry. Best regards.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#413 - 2016-08-31 19:06:23 UTC
well if other MMOs have taught me anything this is a sign of the end times :/

meh at least this way i don't have to pay for my exec alts

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
UNICR0N
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#414 - 2016-08-31 19:07:57 UTC
Is this EVE or Runescape? I'm starting to have trouble telling which is which...

I'm guessing this is another (Hey there capsuleers! we heard the community on what they want! So we are going to totally scrap what you think want or say and give what we want to you in the form of a suppository! Big smileBig smileBig smile)
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
#415 - 2016-08-31 19:09:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Iowa Banshee
May'n Nome wrote:
20 Pages already...Shocked I am glad I skipped much of it.


First off; if any devs beat me to answering on any of these thoughts, let me know. Below. I will be watching this thread closely.

First, I saw concerns about Jump Cloning...so I did a search in the article that lists the skills available to the Alpha Clones and guess what is NOT in the list for any of them...INFOMORPH PSYCHOLOGY...

Yes, it is bolded, underlined, and in caps for a good reason. Apparently some of you forgot that skill is needed for Jump Clones AND how to use the Crtl-F function to find on a page a word you are looking for. All I had to type in was Infomorph to find out that it was nowhere in the list. So yeah, Jump Clones are out or the Alphas already.

Now looking through the skills, I am glad to see some limits placed. But some of the limits could be upped to give the Newbro Alphas a chance against some of us with even 8 months of experience and skills in the game.


First, beef up the Armor and Shield Resistance Compensation skills to 3. This will allow them to get more out of their tanking for Shield or Armor.


Second, limit logins for an Alpha to one account on one computer and not on the same email address and IP address. Do not know if there is a way to detect people hiding their IP address. Any attempt to login that character from another computer should be met with an alert or suspension to prevent multiboxing or throwaway Ganking fleets. Yes, this applies to people who have Omega Accounts as well.


Third, set safeties to yellow at minimum in High Security Space.


Fourth ( and this is from personal experience) allow some some form of planetary interaction (Cert 2 or 3 maybe?) for Alphas. Either of those Certs limits their impact on the in-game while letting them explore this facet of the game.

Fifth, checking APIs for Account Type. This allows Corps and Alliances to recruit them if they want or tell them no and why. Also make this something that can be picked in Corp searches for Alpha-friendly Corps/Alliances.

Sixth, we need a new "This is EVE" trailer for the Alphas to entice them. Big smile


Anyways, this is my two cents on the matter. Let me know what you guys think.


I agree with the Yellow safety and multiple account online at the same time but

I think ANY passive income will be abused

Allow Alpha pi even if limited to 1 planet and there will be players with 500 free accounts in a wormhole with one planet each on maxed extraction cycles generating ISK
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#416 - 2016-08-31 19:13:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
In other news, CCP has announced new "golden" ammos for each race!
Amarr - Conflag, Scorch, Gleam, Aurora
Caldari - Rage, Javelin, Fury, Precision
Gallente - Void, Null, Javelin, Spike
Minmatar - Hail, Barrage, Quake, Tremor

Just think: no longer will OGBs be the standard reason that someone lost a fight to you. It'll because you're subbed or "p2w". Squee!

-Liang

Ed: Gonna roll with Caldari being pure missiles and skip T2 drones entirely; the point should stand despite the mild inaccuracies. Thanks for pointing out the missing missiles (and drones).

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#417 - 2016-08-31 19:19:06 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
In other news, CCP has announced new "golden" ammos for each race!
Amarr - Conflag, Scorch, Gleam, Aurora
Caldari - Void, Null, Javelin, Spike
Gallente - Void, Null, Javelin, Spike
Minmatar - Hail, Barrage, Quake, Tremor

Just think: no longer will OGBs be the standard reason that someone lost a fight to you. It'll because you're subbed or "p2w". Squee!

-Liang


why you leave out fury rage and precision for caldri Missiles are ppl too q,q

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Soltys
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#418 - 2016-08-31 19:20:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Soltys
I'd add another constraint:

- cannot inject skills

This should be reserved for subbed accounts only.

Or actually nvm, not like it changes anything in practice with 5m sp ceiling and skill constraints.

Jita Flipping Inc.: Kovl & Kuvl
Jasper Sinclair
GBS Corp
#419 - 2016-08-31 19:21:26 UTC
I believe this will be beneficial for RvB Big smile. However we would probably like some way to tell an alpha from an omega so that a fox doesn't get in the henhouse, so to speak.

You should be allowed to have as many characters online, alpha or omega, as you have paid accounts. Just like now.

I have 2 completely untrained alts, one on each of my accounts. I like them. Can I move them to alpha accounts so I can keep them and give them some training?

Former Blue CEO, admirer of Caracals (and Tristans)
Serene Repose
#420 - 2016-08-31 19:21:26 UTC
About as inventive (left-handed) way to say "We're going Free To Play" as I've ever seen. What?

Noted...and logged.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.