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I tried it on sisi. My skiff will be 0.02 sec faster per block ice.

It's relevant in two contexts, only one of which I've pointed out, and I've already given ample evidence to support my claim which you've been unable to refute. Another issue is that for other ships that wish to fit buffer tanks, there's a secondary trade-off unrelated to the fitting cost of the modules, which is the sig radius and agility penalties associated with extenders and plates respectively. This relates to my prior points about the skiff being immune to fitting trade-offs that other ships are subject to.



Also wrong. Prepared gankers either ship scan their targets to determine the feasibility of an attack, or bring more dps than the maximum possible tank of the ship they're targeting.



Wrong again. Several times now you've stated this, and in all of which you're inventing a narrative that I've not advocated. In fact, I've advocated that each ship have a range of possible values and that care should be taken to ensure that they don't overlap, or at least, overlap as minimally as possible. If you desire that members of your fleet adhere to a specific fitting doctrine, then it's your prerogative and burden to ensure that they comply. Just like combat fleets in every other class of ship.




The role of other ships is in large place determined by the modules that are fitted to it. A pocket rocket rail rax has a different role to a dual rep thorax, which is different than a plated dual web thorax. Much of pvp is understanding the potential of every ship you encounter and knowing how modules affect the the stats of a ship and thus its role is critical to this understanding. For mining barges, a large part of this is absent and it's not unreasonable to expect that they conform to the norms of other ships.



I'm happy that you're taking the time to help and teach other players how to mine. Taking initiative and making content grows the game for everyone and I don't think that your contributions are wasted. However, many highsec players, and miners in particular, have shown themselves over the years to be unwilling to conform to what the rest of the game base endures. Fitting a boat is one of those things.

You also need to understand that I'm not asking for miners to get nothing in return for this. More available mining upgrades will serve to reward those that are the best in their craft and to enable the people that are passionate about it to have deeper, more meaningful game play.

what do you mean? we have managed it plenty

for example

having them in belt while we are running anoms

or having them fit with a cyno while we are doing a blops op

I suppose with the latter they could be attacked while we jumped at another target but we have yet to have that issue

there are plenty of things security can do to keep busy and make isk w/o having to sit in the belt picking their nose

It has never been managed. Even at the height of the Imperium/CFCs power nobody guarded mining fleets because it was both boring and unworkable. Again I will point out an entire mining fleet of 14 exhumers will be killed in just 2 minutes by a similar sized gang of cruisers.

Right now you are arguing for your entire profession to be helpless in EVE, that you are so incompetent at EVE that CCP has to pre fit your ships for you and that you outright refuse to have any skill involved in mining rewarded.

Scrap the idea of these do-nothing changes. Making the hulls resemble each other even more only makes the problem worse! How about.....


Remove Mining Laser and Ice Mining Upgrades entirely! Bake whatever bonuses CCP feels is justified for each into the hull or strip miners/mining lasers themselves.

Remove the tank per level bonuses on all barges/exhumers and give them the CPU and PG and adjust slot layouts to fit the replacement tank or whatever else they so desire. I would suggest reducing low slots to 2 tho across the board...

Add a new expanded ore hold mod that can only be fit to barges/exhumers (to prevent shenanigans with the Miasmos) possibly by reducing agility/increasing mass to compensate.

Add pinpointing ore scanners (midslot-think painter, but not able to stack effects) to increase yield for scanning ship on targeted/scanned roid while active. Possibly T1:5%/T2:10%/ORE:12% yield, ~5 second cycle, and ~50GJ activation. Make this effect boolean, it's happening or it's not and only for the ship using the module.

Give the Procurer/Skiff agility per level bonuses while giving the Covetor/Hulk cap usage bonus for the new scanners.

Allow Skiff/Hulk to keep cycle time bonuses.

Lastly, remove the Retriever and Mackinaw. Convert them in either direction.


Now if someone wants to tank, they have to give up yield as it shares the same slots. If they want to fit for yield then they have to give up cap stability and tank. If they want to sit in belt longer, they now give up the ability to quickly warp out or fit stabs. And remember if they fit stabs, they are reducing their already pitiful lock range and scan res, the trade-off already exists there.

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The TLDR here is remove all these ridiculous baked in bonuses and modules any miner in their right mind will feel obligated to fit. Give options through altered fittings not baked in hull stats. Add new modules to allow the remaining hull/hulls to mimic to some degree what we see today but with strong trade-offs.

Your quote about the Mack is pure rubbish, there's a reason it's top of the list.

You presume everyone has 4/5/6/7 accounts, whatever, not everyone has a full blown fleet. For solo guys in HS the Mack makes perfect sense, even for someone with 2 accounts it makes sense.

To base your post around everyone having 4 accounts is just wrong. Trust me, if you mined in Null, your Hulks would be docking. You put a DST on grid in null? Look at the guy in this thread who did that...boom. Hell, you'd be better off with a Miasmos to haul the ore back.

Wait...what is this again? did CCP call this a revamp? These changes...
how will they effect the market value of the ships.

-The ore that is mined will be more valuable due to the devaluation of barges and profit margin to go into the negative.

-Every ship must be built in EVE online. If you make it harder for the producers to make the things that other people need to use to kill other stuff, your essentially shooting the mining business in the foot and telling us industrialists to walk it off.

-Like This only makes sense if CCP values what CODE and James 315 stand for. And that is for bot aspirant behavior to become less noticable.

-However, If a miner does not look like a well tuned mining machine going through cycles and coming back to chew through a belt, than the thousand of hours used to mine ores, refine minerals and turn those minerals into ships, ammo, modules and cold hard profitable isk is for nothing.

-The devaluation of the miner's opinion had gone too far.

~ Complete Mining Corporations and Alliances that fleet huge mining operations will stop and the effect will be felt galaxy wide.
-This means capital construction yards would no longer have materials to supply null sec wars, code would run out of miners to kill, and every corporation would lose billions in ISK because the best kind of [ORE] product is an Unsold [ORE] product.

-I invite you to the Fall 2016 Miner Strike(day Zero start). And watch as the economy collapses into turmoil.This is my vision. Spread the word.
.JM #minerstrike2016

When do we get the Tech II Orca?

Pls look @ the Mastery pages of the Mining ships too, a lot of stuff in those tabs does not belong in them.

It will in highsec, and every time you don't have a rorqual. These ships should not have to rely on a capital to actually work.