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We want to help ccp bring more players into eve!

First post
Author
Ramona Taggart
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#181 - 2016-08-18 13:59:56 UTC


It's a shame we don't have access to the raw numbers of these figures or how these figures were acquired. Did the 80,000 include trial accounts? Was this paid accounts only? Were they new player accounts, vet accounts, or mixed? What were the locations of these players? What were their activities?

It is a great marketing tool to say ship loss = better retention, but it's incredibly vague. What were the percentages? Does getting killed yield a 40-50% increased chance of retention? If so, that would be great. What if it were only 1.2%? Would they say that?

Also, what does "play longer" mean? How much longer? A month? Years? The point may be moot, but would be interested to see.

However, I'm not surprised a very small percentage of leaving accounts cited ship loss. I mean, they knew that going in right? That EVE is a game where you can be shot at any time. I think there would be something wrong with the players themselves if they enter a PVP game and are surprised they get killed.

I would be more interested in what reasons they did provide about leaving the game.

I feel there are far more factors in play than just Ship loss = better retention + sub fees.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#182 - 2016-08-18 14:02:02 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#183 - 2016-08-18 14:43:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Hilti Enaka wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Quote:
Like i said the focus is on retaining current customers

But the current customers are not your 2003 customers.
If profile of the game was developed (broken as you would say) for the system that is selfdestructive, not for average gamer, but for those who are destructive for game, you may be very wrong with that retaining.
We need again average player, playing, having fun and paying subscription. Activities in game should be fun, is that mining, missioning or PvP.
Whales have moved to SC or elsewhere where they will have more power, and spaceships are not their main focus.


That's got **** all to do with attracting new players.

Good gameplay = Good Game = Engagement

Spend money on that rather than trying to reach new players.

This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Even if the thread was about, what can CCP do, it's a next to useless answer, but as this thread is about what can we do as players, it's just totally off topic.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

Alhira Katserna
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#184 - 2016-08-18 14:50:05 UTC
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Alhira Katserna wrote:
My 2 cents.

- NPC Corps need some rework

- Getting new player into good corps needs to be worked on.

- Wardecs need to be drastically limited, maybe to 3 per alliance.

1 and 2 I completely agree with, however if 2 happens, 3 is not required.

Corps/Alliances like Eve-Uni, Horde, Brave, etc. that are very new player friendly, operate under permanent wardec and still manage to have thriving newbros.

That's because they actively help their new players and understand how to avoid any issues from wardecs. They have good CEOs and good leadership.

Good Corps are never threatened by wardecs and view them in some cases, as a great way to teach their new players.

So the positive side of the second suggestion means you don't need that third one at all. More limitations in the mechanics are not required. Tools to find the good corps are.


Well if you´re assuming that only big(-ish) corps are corps who are useful for newbies then yeah. But there are also a large numbers of smaller corps in Highsec who might be able to teach newbros but are either surpressed by those constant wardecs or completely thriven off in the first place.

I.e. "Hey don´t you want to join our corp?" "Yeah sure, why not?"`"But we are wardecced atm so you have to look for a large amount of things *explains wardec mechanics*" "Err yeah, thx, but then i better stay in my NPC corp for now."
Pandora Carrollon
Provi Rapid Response
Apocalypse Now.
#185 - 2016-08-18 15:25:46 UTC
Until we can find common ground as players, and so I don't get spun, misinterpreted or otherwise taken out of context, common ground is defined as a minimal set of points we can all agree on so we can have ONE consistent minimum picture of EVE... it's going to be impossible to influence CCP to making proper changes to help boost player retention AND marketing to get more people to try the game.

The constant bickering over the image of what EVE is supposed to be not only allows/forces CCP to continue to marginalize the commentary and ideas here, it also will continue to give new players a fragmented picture of the game and what is expected of them in the game and what they should expect from the game.

Thus my point is we should all stop harping on each other over relatively minor game points and start focusing back on major points where that vast majority of players are in solid agreement on the game. THAT image should become a sticky and be the real "This is EVE", beyond that play the game you want, where you want and how you want.

Doing that would probably get the biggest boost in new players and retention. Trial members would see that and go "I like it!" or "Not for me" really fast and either stay aboard or go away quickly.

EVE is not for every person out there, but EVE should be for every person that likes the challenge of EVE. What that challenge is defined as or 'should be' is what we all seem to be unable to agree upon.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#186 - 2016-08-18 16:20:18 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:

EDIT: I can deal with you exactly the same way all those people who don't play this game deal with your kind.


No mate, you can't deal with me at all. You've made it quite evident that rational, consistent discourse are beyond your critical faculties, so until you do something about that, you'll never have the slightest idea how to deal with me besides hurling chidlish invectives or pretending I don't exist.

Neither actually deals with me, though. It just makes me stronger. I'm still waiting for you to actually say something that addresses what I've said, rather than what kind of person I am.



Now you see, I practice two principles that most people have been conditioned away from:

- Physical Removal. In this case, I don't read your crap, and if you were in the same room, I'd find somewhere else to be. It's a more common principle than you think, most of the people who won't play Eve because of people like yourself already practice it.
- I know who I and in fact I DO have every right to judge people. We have had 60 years of "who do you are that you think you have the right to judge me?" and look where western civilization has gone. So I practice the reverse of that anti-civilizational concept that we are somehow not allowed to judge others based on their character and their actions. This also requires a bit of adult-level understanding. For example, I look like a scumbag and sometimes when I go for a run the police have stopped me for looking like I was up to no good. But I have my ID number memorized (and no criminal record) and understand that people who get paid to make judgments will judge me on my appearance.

I know being judged might be a little hard to accept for some people. But as the old saying goes "evil flees where none pursue(th)".

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#187 - 2016-08-18 16:26:33 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Oh look what a surprise, this thread has devolved into the same dozen people rehearsing the same old "bears vs ganker" rubbish that litters every thread in these forums.

And people wonder why the devs prefer to interact with the community on reddit. What a mystery.

ISD, start doing your damb jobs and put a stop to this crap wrecking every single thread in GD.




I'll bet you 5 pints of ale (if we ever cross paths) that the ISDs are also mods on Reddit. Lol

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2016-08-18 16:41:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

The girl on the last picture in pretty but where are results of this 'science'? You know: numbers like they provided on two other pictures?

I'm sure if they have nice numbers they would show it? But they didn't?
Instead they made pretty wide conclusion which would be happily accepted by players on Fan-Fest. PR you know....

It would be really interesting to see real data they have collected.


So you are saying CCP are lying?

Well.... If you really want to evade this question.... Then you CAN use maneuvers like that.

But 'NO U' does not make YOUR story more clean and trustworthy. And yes, it's YOUR story because YOU repeat it in every thread. YOU gave these 3 pictures so i would like YOU to tell ME why there are no any real results provided on 3rd picture. You believe to this story so either you have proofs or it's your bias.

And about 'CCP are lying'.... I'm pretty sure YOU know how to take their words spoken on Fan Fest. Lol

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#189 - 2016-08-18 16:43:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
Alhira Katserna
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#190 - 2016-08-18 17:28:53 UTC
Nah that´s Star Citizen Big smile
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#191 - 2016-08-18 17:38:37 UTC
Nana Skalski wrote:
Quote:
CCP are lying

EVE is the biggest scam in the history of gaming. Blink


A scam you are still paying for. That would make CCP scammers, but would make you a ________. Fill in your own blanks.

Elite, No Man's Sky, STO etc, if you don't like one space game find another.
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#192 - 2016-08-18 17:42:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Shae Tadaruwa
Alhira Katserna wrote:
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:
Alhira Katserna wrote:
My 2 cents.

- NPC Corps need some rework

- Getting new player into good corps needs to be worked on.

- Wardecs need to be drastically limited, maybe to 3 per alliance.

1 and 2 I completely agree with, however if 2 happens, 3 is not required.

Corps/Alliances like Eve-Uni, Horde, Brave, etc. that are very new player friendly, operate under permanent wardec and still manage to have thriving newbros.

That's because they actively help their new players and understand how to avoid any issues from wardecs. They have good CEOs and good leadership.

Good Corps are never threatened by wardecs and view them in some cases, as a great way to teach their new players.

So the positive side of the second suggestion means you don't need that third one at all. More limitations in the mechanics are not required. Tools to find the good corps are.


Well if you´re assuming that only big(-ish) corps are corps who are useful for newbies then yeah. But there are also a large numbers of smaller corps in Highsec who might be able to teach newbros but are either surpressed by those constant wardecs or completely thriven off in the first place.

I.e. "Hey don´t you want to join our corp?" "Yeah sure, why not?"`"But we are wardecced atm so you have to look for a large amount of things *explains wardec mechanics*" "Err yeah, thx, but then i better stay in my NPC corp for now."

Why would you assume only big Corps? That seems like a rather stupid and unnecessary limitation.

Good Corps (or good Corp leadership) is never suppressed by wardecs. That's the opposite of good.

If you're scared of wardecs, then don't run a Corp. but there are plenty of Corps that are not bothered at all by wardecs.

Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#193 - 2016-08-18 17:56:51 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
March rabbit wrote:



Well.... If you really want to evade this question.... Then you CAN use maneuvers like that.

But 'NO U' does not make YOUR story more clean and trustworthy. And yes, it's YOUR story because YOU repeat it in every thread. YOU gave these 3 pictures so i would like YOU to tell ME why there are no any real results provided on 3rd picture. You believe to this story so either you have proofs or it's your bias.

And about 'CCP are lying'.... I'm pretty sure YOU know how to take their words spoken on Fan Fest. Lol


Posted more evidence in here than anyone else has.
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#194 - 2016-08-18 17:57:11 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Quote:
CCP are lying

EVE is the biggest scam in the history of gaming. Blink


A scam you are still paying for. That would make CCP scammers, but would make you a ________. Fill in your own blanks.

Elite, No Man's Sky, STO etc, if you don't like one space game find another.

I am not the only one _______ it seems. Lol

But on more serious note, when even being the greatest in this field is endangered, then what future awaits us? Pirate
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#195 - 2016-08-18 17:59:49 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Nana Skalski wrote:
Quote:
CCP are lying

EVE is the biggest scam in the history of gaming. Blink


A scam you are still paying for. That would make CCP scammers, but would make you a ________. Fill in your own blanks.

Elite, No Man's Sky, STO etc, if you don't like one space game find another.


STO is horrid, and I'm not saying that because they banned me three times.Oops
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#196 - 2016-08-18 18:28:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Drago Shouna
Ramona Taggart wrote:


It's a shame we don't have access to the raw numbers of these figures or how these figures were acquired. Did the 80,000 include trial accounts? Was this paid accounts only? Were they new player accounts, vet accounts, or mixed? What were the locations of these players? What were their activities?

It is a great marketing tool to say ship loss = better retention, but it's incredibly vague. What were the percentages? Does getting killed yield a 40-50% increased chance of retention? If so, that would be great. What if it were only 1.2%? Would they say that?

Also, what does "play longer" mean? How much longer? A month? Years? The point may be moot, but would be interested to see.

However, I'm not surprised a very small percentage of leaving accounts cited ship loss. I mean, they knew that going in right? That EVE is a game where you can be shot at any time. I think there would be something wrong with the players themselves if they enter a PVP game and are surprised they get killed.

I would be more interested in what reasons they did provide about leaving the game.

I feel there are far more factors in play than just Ship loss = better retention + sub fees.




Hmmm, you make an interesting point about pvp and new players coming in.

https://secure.eveonline.com/ContentPacks/packContent.aspx?pack=Explorer

https://secure.eveonline.com/ContentPacks/packContent.aspx?pack=Industrialist

https://secure.eveonline.com/ContentPacks/packContent.aspx?pack=Colonist

https://secure.eveonline.com/ContentPacks/packContent.aspx?pack=Skirmisher


Imagine you are a new player, see this offer and buy, say, the Explorer Pack. Where does it say that this is a pvp game and the second you leave the starter system you'll lose it all?

Where in all the advertising does it specifically say that this is a pure pvp game? I can't find it.

What it does say is that you can do whatever you want, and be whatever you want to be. It doesn't say that you'll be incessantly abused and farmed as a miner to pad kill boards. It doesn't say that as an industrialist you will be harassed and bullied out of the game if you take stuff to market without an escort or second account. Where does it say that as an explorer you risk getting killed by someone who scanned the anom first and they are sat cloaked waiting for you? PVP is kind of given lip service with the skirmisher pack.

This game is advertised as a sandbox game, nowhere can I find one that says this is a pvp game so if you don't enjoy it, don't bother.

Does anyone seriously think that a new player buying the colonist pack is interested in pvp?

A lot might come along because they see the massive space battles, just to find that they happen once a flood and the rest of the time is spent getting enough isk to buy ships for next time.

How do we get more players? I don't know. But getting their expectations up in a certain direction just for them to find out it's completely different in game isn't a good recruitment policy.

Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..." " They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."

Welcome to EVE.

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#197 - 2016-08-18 18:39:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:



Well.... If you really want to evade this question.... Then you CAN use maneuvers like that.

But 'NO U' does not make YOUR story more clean and trustworthy. And yes, it's YOUR story because YOU repeat it in every thread. YOU gave these 3 pictures so i would like YOU to tell ME why there are no any real results provided on 3rd picture. You believe to this story so either you have proofs or it's your bias.

And about 'CCP are lying'.... I'm pretty sure YOU know how to take their words spoken on Fan Fest. Lol


Posted more evidence in here than anyone else has.

Agree. But not enough evidences does not make something proven if there are not evidences of something opposite.

So?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#198 - 2016-08-18 18:40:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Drago Shouna wrote:
Ramona Taggart wrote:


It's a shame we don't have access to the raw numbers of these figures or how these figures were acquired. Did the 80,000 include trial accounts? Was this paid accounts only? Were they new player accounts, vet accounts, or mixed? What were the locations of these players? What were their activities?

It is a great marketing tool to say ship loss = better retention, but it's incredibly vague. What were the percentages? Does getting killed yield a 40-50% increased chance of retention? If so, that would be great. What if it were only 1.2%? Would they say that?

Also, what does "play longer" mean? How much longer? A month? Years? The point may be moot, but would be interested to see.

However, I'm not surprised a very small percentage of leaving accounts cited ship loss. I mean, they knew that going in right? That EVE is a game where you can be shot at any time. I think there would be something wrong with the players themselves if they enter a PVP game and are surprised they get killed.

I would be more interested in what reasons they did provide about leaving the game.

I feel there are far more factors in play than just Ship loss = better retention + sub fees.




Hmmm, you make an interesting point about pvp and new players coming in.

https://secure.eveonline.com/ContentPacks/packContent.aspx?pack=Explorer

https://secure.eveonline.com/ContentPacks/packContent.aspx?pack=Industrialist

https://secure.eveonline.com/ContentPacks/packContent.aspx?pack=Colonist

https://secure.eveonline.com/ContentPacks/packContent.aspx?pack=Skirmisher


Imagine you are a new player, see this offer and buy, say, the Explorer Pack. Where does it say that this is a pvp game and the second you leave the starter system you'll lose it all?

Where in all the advertising does it specifically say that this is a pure pvp game? I can't find it.

What it does say is that you can do whatever you want, and be whatever you want to be. It doesn't say that you'll be incessantly abused and farmed as a miner to pad kill boards. It doesn't say that as an industrialist you will be harassed and bullied out of the game if you take stuff to market without an escort or second account. Where does it say that as an explorer you risk getting killed by someone who scanned the anom first and they are sat cloaked waiting for you? PVP is kind of given lip service with the skirmisher pack.

This game is advertised as a sandbox game, nowhere can I find one that says this is a pvp game so if you don't enjoy it, don't bother.

Does anyone seriously think that a new player buying the colonist pack is interested in pvp?

A lot might come along because they see the massive space battles, just to find that they happen once a flood and the rest of the time is spent getting enough isk to buy ships for next time.

How do we get more players? I don't know. But getting their expectations up in a certain direction just for them to find out it's completely different in game isn't a good recruitment policy.




Back in 1987 I went with a friend who was slightly older to get some food for his pet python. What I did not know was that he was getting a live mouse to feed it. I suppose this is the way of nature so that part did not bother me.

What was disturbing was the box they put the mouse in, the same little box they would put a hamster or gerbil or bunny, covered in friendly slogans about being somebody's beloved pet and nice imagery.

For a mouse that would be dropped into a cage with a python that would strike at it, squeeze the life out of it, and devour it. I found that little temporary pet container and the purpose of the mouse purchase to be at extreme odds and both funny and at the same time repulsive.

Your post reminded me of that.


Somebody who could not get past "funny" and conversely, somebody who cannot get past "repulsive" both have personality disorders.

Frankly a situation where people are sent into a situation where they can be "food" for somebody else's entertainment and those partaking in the food can blame the food for being food is a little sick. This is why PVP missions need to be included in the NPE and NPC corps should be wardeccing each other sporadically for "NOTHING PERSONAL" (because greifers make it personal as part of their game and meta-jollies) PVP so nobody goes forth like a happy little mouse that's going to be put in a cage with a python and have zero chance for escape.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
#199 - 2016-08-18 18:45:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Nana Skalski
We are like those mouses, and EVE is written in Python. Lol

Daily downtimes must be the usual pauses for hamster sacrifice. Cool
Roci Nantes
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#200 - 2016-08-18 19:00:18 UTC
I think the retention issues we see with Eve are the same you see with all “sandbox” style games. If you do not generate some sense of purpose to players when they get started, at some point in the near future they will quit. Many say “let me do what I want” then quickly follow it up with “ I’m bored give me something to do”. The purpose could be pvp related.. it could be to build something.. it could be to listen to over the rainbow while you save space hookers from the evil npc corps… It just needs to be a “something” that a player can get behind. But they do need the skills/know how to pull it off.

I would improve the first few days for new players. Enhance the career quests to dive deeper into some of the aspects of the game and teach a little more. Have quests that force them into low sec so they die, by a player. Then have some crazy npc message to hype them up about revenge and some other npc that is more passive that teaches them to prep better and know how to escape. I’m not talking hold their hand until they are flying carriers but just a true look at the different aspects of the game. Let them figure out how they want to play and give some tools to manage that play style.

I started eve because I wanted to fly cool space ships, that was it. I didn’t even know the game was pvp until I got into it. I prefer pvp in other games compared to eve. If I want to beat up on someone I go to SC2 or LoL. It wasn’t the dying to other players, its just a different type of pvp. Getting caught in endless gate camps just trying to get into a zone where you try to fight someone with 100mil more sp than you, who has also been playing for 10 years, didn’t motivate me.

I lucked out and had a friend that played to tell me about all the cool things I could do, which kept me going. There were a lot of things that could have been taught from the beginning to give someone goals to try and achieve. I do believe that new players understanding the true threats of the game is important. Losing your rookie ship or frigate might give you a jolt but it lets you know the risks. Floating around all safe until you worked up to a Hulk.. then getting your 300mil+ ship popped is a much more shocking experience.