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So, Barge Info?
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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#161 - 2016-08-18 14:08:26 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Dracvlad wrote:


Give the larger drone bay and drone bonus to the Hulk too, fine with me, it does not currently have any role bonuses and it should.


All the hulk needs is the slots, cpu and PG to fit a hac like tank on it. Role bonus would be the 25% yield to mining lasers currently on the mack. Firepower is the skiffs job.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#162 - 2016-08-18 14:15:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Give the larger drone bay and drone bonus to the Hulk too, fine with me, it does not currently have any role bonuses and it should.


All the hulk needs is the slots, cpu and PG to fit a hac like tank on it. Role bonus would be the 25% yield to mining lasers currently on the mack. Firepower is the skiffs job.


The skiff is a solo mining boat, the Hulk does not currently have any role bonus so drone damage with that extra low slot would be a good idea.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#163 - 2016-08-18 14:19:02 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


The skiff is a solo mining boat, the Hulk does not currently have any role bonus so drone damage with that extra low slot would be a good idea.


Wrong.

It has a place in the plan I have provided.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#164 - 2016-08-18 14:24:24 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


The skiff is a solo mining boat, the Hulk does not currently have any role bonus so drone damage with that extra low slot would be a good idea.


Wrong.

It has a place in the plan I have provided.


Your plan sucks, it is directly aimed against solo miners and people who want to mine in a ship with a tank.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2016-08-18 14:29:56 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

Now under my plan you have a mixed fleet, the hulks are the dedicated miners, the macks are providing logi support and the skiffs are offering offensive support to fight off the attackers. Suddenly the mining fleet is not defenseless vs a small gang.

Wait a second. We are talking about high-sec? Then we deal with suicide ganking don't we?

- drones need time to reach target
- skiff need time to lock target and order drones to attack it. Can skiff lock catalyst fast enough so its defensive capability will matter?
(Using command to drones to 'defend fleet member' only means fleet does not use the whole available DPS of skiffs)

- mach needs time to lock other ship to repair it. Can it lock hulk/skiff fast enough to provide logi against suiciders?
(Using pre-lock only works in really small fleets)

- providing logi support to person with LE means you get suspect flag. This means that using machs as logi in high-sec will lead to suicide gank bait and loss of hulks and machs too. Skiffs will do their best and kill lone suicider and that's it.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#166 - 2016-08-18 14:31:03 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Your plan sucks, it is directly aimed against solo miners and people who want to mine in a ship with a tank.


Explain how the skiff wont be for solo players or have a sizable tank.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#167 - 2016-08-18 14:39:54 UTC
March rabbit wrote:

Wait a second. We are talking about high-sec? Then we deal with suicide ganking don't we?
null but lets do highsec!
March rabbit wrote:

- drones need time to reach target
- skiff need time to lock target and order drones to attack it. Can skiff lock catalyst fast enough so its defensive capability will matter?


Flight time is nill if you are next to eachother which a fleet would be doing. Sebo on the skiff make locking a target rather fast.
March rabbit wrote:

- mach needs time to lock other ship to repair it. Can it lock hulk/skiff fast enough to provide logi against suiciders?
(Using pre-lock only works in really small fleets)


As you said, small fleet you pre lock, large fleet you can fit a sebo. Due to the nature of shield reps they will land the second you lock.
March rabbit wrote:

- providing logi support to person with LE means you get suspect flag. This means that using machs as logi in high-sec will lead to suicide gank bait and loss of hulks and machs too. Skiffs will do their best and kill lone suicider and that's it.


Fly as part of a corp/alliance and be in a fleet and this is a not a thing.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#168 - 2016-08-18 14:42:33 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Now under my plan you have a mixed fleet, the hulks are the dedicated miners, the macks are providing logi support and the skiffs are offering offensive support to fight off the attackers. Suddenly the mining fleet is not defenseless vs a small gang.

Wait a second. We are talking about high-sec? Then we deal with suicide ganking don't we?

- drones need time to reach target
- skiff need time to lock target and order drones to attack it. Can skiff lock catalyst fast enough so its defensive capability will matter?
(Using command to drones to 'defend fleet member' only means fleet does not use the whole available DPS of skiffs)

- mach needs time to lock other ship to repair it. Can it lock hulk/skiff fast enough to provide logi against suiciders?
(Using pre-lock only works in really small fleets)

- providing logi support to person with LE means you get suspect flag. This means that using machs as logi in high-sec will lead to suicide gank bait and loss of hulks and machs too. Skiffs will do their best and kill lone suicider and that's it.


Yeah, that is the obvious flaws in baltec1's suggestion which he just seemed to ignore.

What he wants is to go back to how it was before the buff to mining ships, so that miners are forced to fleet up or not log in.

Which is why he keeps talking about nerfing the base hp of skiffs, because if he can get that low enough then they can run around with a number of Kusion like fleets killing any solo miner with solo play.

Previously those people who tried to defend mining fleets were at a massive disadvantage and were set up to fail just as AG is set up to fail. All this suggestion is, is a ego boost for players like him using the mechanics to get joke kills, typical ganker bull shite.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#169 - 2016-08-18 14:43:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Your plan sucks, it is directly aimed against solo miners and people who want to mine in a ship with a tank.


Explain how the skiff wont be for solo players or have a sizable tank.


You want to nerf its tank, simple as that.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#170 - 2016-08-18 14:44:35 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

Wait a second. We are talking about high-sec? Then we deal with suicide ganking don't we?
null but lets do highsec!
March rabbit wrote:

- drones need time to reach target
- skiff need time to lock target and order drones to attack it. Can skiff lock catalyst fast enough so its defensive capability will matter?


Flight time is nill if you are next to eachother which a fleet would be doing. Sebo on the skiff make locking a target rather fast.
March rabbit wrote:

- mach needs time to lock other ship to repair it. Can it lock hulk/skiff fast enough to provide logi against suiciders?
(Using pre-lock only works in really small fleets)


As you said, small fleet you pre lock, large fleet you can fit a sebo. Due to the nature of shield reps they will land the second you lock.
March rabbit wrote:

- providing logi support to person with LE means you get suspect flag. This means that using machs as logi in high-sec will lead to suicide gank bait and loss of hulks and machs too. Skiffs will do their best and kill lone suicider and that's it.


Fly as part of a corp/alliance and be in a fleet and this is a not a thing.


Face palm, that is going to work where people are in one man corps in the main, no no and fecking no.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#171 - 2016-08-18 14:45:28 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Face palm, that is going to work where people are in one man corps in the main, no no and fecking no.


By definition a one man corp is not a fleet.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#172 - 2016-08-18 14:50:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Dracvlad
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Face palm, that is going to work where people are in one man corps in the main, no no and fecking no.


By definition a one man corp is not a fleet.


Obviously you have no idea what goes on in terms of hisec mining where people often fleet up and work together, or also what went on before when people fleated up for defence, most of them were not in the same corp. You just want joke kills using CONCORD to gloat over, your suggestion reeks of that bull shite.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Sarah Flynt
Red Cross Mercenaries
Silent Infinity
#173 - 2016-08-18 14:55:17 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

- providing logi support to person with LE means you get suspect flag. This means that using machs as logi in high-sec will lead to suicide gank bait and loss of hulks and machs too. Skiffs will do their best and kill lone suicider and that's it.


Fly as part of a corp/alliance and be in a fleet and this is a not a thing.

That doesn't prevent the suspect flagging. As soon as you rep somebody who is in a LE with somebody else, you get suspect flagged, regardless of same corp/alliance/fleet/whatever.

Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#174 - 2016-08-18 14:56:28 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Face palm, that is going to work where people are in one man corps in the main, no no and fecking no.


By definition a one man corp is not a fleet.


Obviously you have no idea what goes on in terms of hisec mining where people often fleet up and work together, or also what went on before when people fleated up for defence, most of them were not in the same corp. You just want joke kills using CONCORD to gloat over, your suggestion reeks of that bull shite.


Only clueless noggin here is yourself. You have spent that last page ranting about not being able to go solo and fit a tank to the skiff after repeatedly being shown nothing for you would change.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#175 - 2016-08-18 14:58:33 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Sarah Flynt wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

- providing logi support to person with LE means you get suspect flag. This means that using machs as logi in high-sec will lead to suicide gank bait and loss of hulks and machs too. Skiffs will do their best and kill lone suicider and that's it.


Fly as part of a corp/alliance and be in a fleet and this is a not a thing.

That doesn't prevent the suspect flagging. As soon as you rep somebody who is in a LE with somebody else, you get suspect flagged, regardless of same corp/alliance/fleet/whatever.


So don't be and idiot and get LE. This plan will give people options to defend themselves, not cure stupidity.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#176 - 2016-08-18 15:10:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Face palm, that is going to work where people are in one man corps in the main, no no and fecking no.


By definition a one man corp is not a fleet.


Obviously you have no idea what goes on in terms of hisec mining where people often fleet up and work together, or also what went on before when people fleated up for defence, most of them were not in the same corp. You just want joke kills using CONCORD to gloat over, your suggestion reeks of that bull shite.


Only clueless noggin here is yourself. You have spent that last page ranting about not being able to go solo and fit a tank to the skiff after repeatedly being shown nothing for you would change.


Reducing the base HP would reduce the tank, that is pretty clueless on your part, that is what you directly asked for, because you want it so you can set up like the Kusions and be able to gank all mining ships with one player. That is a significant change and something I reject.

As for your suggestion working in hisec, you know full well that the mechanics are likely to cause stupid easy deaths in certain circumstances.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#177 - 2016-08-18 15:13:20 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Dracvlad wrote:


Reducing the base HP would reduce the tank, that is pretty clueless on your part


What part of adding more slots is hard to understand here? The only difference is you fit the tank rather than get it out of the box.



Dracvlad wrote:

As for your suggestion working in hisec, you know full well that the mechanics are likely to cause stupid easy deaths in certain circumstances.


So don't be stupid.
Sarah Flynt
Red Cross Mercenaries
Silent Infinity
#178 - 2016-08-18 15:13:41 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Sarah Flynt wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
March rabbit wrote:

- providing logi support to person with LE means you get suspect flag. This means that using machs as logi in high-sec will lead to suicide gank bait and loss of hulks and machs too. Skiffs will do their best and kill lone suicider and that's it.


Fly as part of a corp/alliance and be in a fleet and this is a not a thing.

That doesn't prevent the suspect flagging. As soon as you rep somebody who is in a LE with somebody else, you get suspect flagged, regardless of same corp/alliance/fleet/whatever.


So don't be and idiot and get LE. This plan will give people options to defend themselves, not cure stupidity.

Yep, put Procurers/Skiffs in your fleet, because according to you "they are now perfect mining escorts/defence boats for both fleet work and solo" but don't you dare to shoot back if attacked because that would give you a LE which in turn makes all your Mack-logis go suspect. That makes perfect sense. Roll

Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
Dirty Forum Alt
Forum Alts Anonymous
#179 - 2016-08-18 15:14:56 UTC
Or just go suspect and kill whoever else attacks you too - always a fun option (though you would have to train combat skills I'm afraid)

Pirate

The dead swans lay in the stagnant pool. They lay. They rotted. They turned Around occasionally. Bits of flesh dropped off them from Time to time. And sank into the pool's mire. They also smelt a great deal.

Paula Nancy Millstone Jennings (Sussex)
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#180 - 2016-08-18 15:28:01 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:


Reducing the base HP would reduce the tank, that is pretty clueless on your part


What part of adding more slots is hard to understand here? The only difference is you fit the tank rather than get it out of the box.

Dracvlad wrote:

As for your suggestion working in hisec, you know full well that the mechanics are likely to cause stupid easy deaths in certain circumstances.


So don't be stupid.


I add to that tank to get it higher than the base, I know exactly what I need to be able to tank to cover the likely special effort that some gankers would try on me. I have no faith in CCP adjusting this in any sensible way and expect that whatever they do will result in an overall lower EHP which is what you want.

Even the best players make mistake, you can ask VMG what happend to their logi when they attacked that first Medium Citadel in Perimeter. Miners have no clue in the main about such things, I am often explaining hisec mechanics to other players.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp