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So, Barge Info?
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Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#81 - 2016-08-18 05:45:31 UTC
Kueyen wrote:
Wanda Fayne wrote:
Please tell me that at least one of these ships got a utility highslot?
Since none of them can mount any turrets or launchers, I'm pleased to report that all of them have no less than two utility high slots!

Of course, being mining vessels, one would usually put a pair of strip miners or ice harvesters in them...


But, if I put strip miners or ice harvesters in the high slots, where will I put the Nos and Cyno?

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#82 - 2016-08-18 05:54:21 UTC
Mining ships, they don't have to be built for speed, they don't have to be built for the ability to handle weapons but they can be built at the base level to be tanky which is what CCP did with them, a cruiser is a combat ship which will be fitted for need, be it morre tank, more speed or more gank, two of those choices are not there at the base level of the Procurer and Skiff. So comparing the mining barges or the exhumers to cruisers on the basis of flexible fitting is just wrong.

Even the various drone boats which have bonuses for drones have high slots that can take guns or launchers, mining ships can fit just mining equipment, so that blows your entire argument out of the water, there is no base flexibility for mining ships in terms of fitting weapons.



When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Viktor Amarr
#83 - 2016-08-18 06:09:26 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
Mining ships, they don't have to be built for speed, they don't have to be built for the ability to handle weapons but they can be built at the base level to be tanky which is what CCP did with them, a cruiser is a combat ship which will be fitted for need, be it morre tank, more speed or more gank, two of those choices are not there at the base level of the Procurer and Skiff. So comparing the mining barges or the exhumers to cruisers on the basis of flexible fitting is just wrong.

Even the various drone boats which have bonuses for drones have high slots that can take guns or launchers, mining ships can fit just mining equipment, so that blows your entire argument out of the water, there is no base flexibility for mining ships in terms of fitting weapons.


That''s silly logic, "Mining ships can't really fit guns so they are less flexible". Normal ships can't fit strip miners either, your point?
Caco De'mon
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#84 - 2016-08-18 06:16:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Caco De'mon
Dracvlad wrote:
Even the various drone boats which have bonuses for drones have high slots that can take guns or launchers, mining ships can fit just mining equipment, so that blows your entire argument out of the water, there is no base flexibility for mining ships in terms of fitting weapons.


A Drone boat is still a combat ship through-and-through, it just has a specific flavor. It's core purpose is combat and there really is not secondary role. Yes, you could mine with a Tristan and still maintain its drone boat status but there is a reason you don't see many people doing that.

A mining vessel is purpose built to mine and just like in the real world, trying to add weapons to a civilian application is normally met with lots of LOLz. Of course it can be done but where as the Tristan-miner might be seen as being creative, a Retriever with a Pew-gun on it just moronic.

There should be no flexibility (in regards to weapons) on barges/exhume'ers because it's a very silly idea in the first place.

If that role is needed, then make a new class of Combat-Miner ships.

It's like WWII sure you could put a few 50 cals on a merchant ship and they might feel safer but in reality they were just are vulnerable as before. Then there are Attack-Transports that has multiple HMGs, 6" guns and 40mm Bofers....plus a crew actually trained for combat.

Maybe this post is out of place or off the mark but trying to weaponize basic miner ships is a really bad idea.

*"See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#85 - 2016-08-18 06:16:38 UTC
Viktor Amarr wrote:


That''s silly logic, "Mining ships can't really fit guns so they are less flexible". Normal ships can't fit strip miners either, your point?



He does nothing but demand that barges be better able to defend themselves but here he is arguing against giving them that very ability.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#86 - 2016-08-18 06:24:50 UTC
Caco De'mon wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Even the various drone boats which have bonuses for drones have high slots that can take guns or launchers, mining ships can fit just mining equipment, so that blows your entire argument out of the water, there is no base flexibility for mining ships in terms of fitting weapons.


A Drone boat is still a combat ship through-and-through, it just has a specific flavor. It's core purpose is combat and there really is not secondary role. Yes, you could mine with a Tristan and still maintain its drone boat status but there is a reason you don't see many people doing that.

A mining vessel is purpose built to mine and just like in the real world, trying to add weapons to a civilian application is normally met with lots of LOLz. Of course it can be done but where as the Tristan-miner might be seen as being creative, a Retriever with a Pew-gun on it just moronic.

There should be no flexibility (in regards to weapons) on barges/exhume'ers because it's a very silly idea in the first place.

If that role is needed, then make a new class of Combat-Miner ships.

It's like WWII sure you could put a few 50 cals on a merchant ship and they might feel safer but in reality they were just are vulnerable as before. Then there are Attack-Transports that has multiple HMGs, 6" guns and 40mm Bofers....plus a crew actually trained for combat.

Maybe this post is out of place or off the mark but trying to weaponize basic miner ships is a really bad idea.


Skiff and procurer have a done HP and damage bonus.
Viktor Amarr
#87 - 2016-08-18 06:45:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Viktor Amarr
What this really all is is people going "waah, I want to use the fastest/biggest orehold miner but I don't like how that means I have to lose capabilities elsewhere which will get my in trouble if I AFK mine". People just want to fly their hulk but don't want to put in the effort take make that a safe thing to do, because that just takes effort and we all know how miners are allergic to that. EVE doesn't need more powerful, easy to use highest yield ships or pre-fit mining ships, it needs to breed more active players.

It's the same thing with the Venture, that thing is so overpowered that it really is THE best way to start out and make money as a true newbie. That is CCP telling new possible customers that "to make money in this game you need to do boring grinding, no pewpew no interesting space combat, GIT GRINDING and BE AFK!".
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#88 - 2016-08-18 06:58:20 UTC
Viktor Amarr wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Mining ships, they don't have to be built for speed, they don't have to be built for the ability to handle weapons but they can be built at the base level to be tanky which is what CCP did with them, a cruiser is a combat ship which will be fitted for need, be it morre tank, more speed or more gank, two of those choices are not there at the base level of the Procurer and Skiff. So comparing the mining barges or the exhumers to cruisers on the basis of flexible fitting is just wrong.

Even the various drone boats which have bonuses for drones have high slots that can take guns or launchers, mining ships can fit just mining equipment, so that blows your entire argument out of the water, there is no base flexibility for mining ships in terms of fitting weapons.


That''s silly logic, "Mining ships can't really fit guns so they are less flexible". Normal ships can't fit strip miners either, your point?



If you are going to call something silly then reply with a less then silly answer. A cruiser is a combat ship, a mining ship is not, a cruiser can be fitted various ways and has hardpoints for weapons which are very different to a hard point for a mining implement, logic would indicate taht the hardpoints for weapons systems would be a lot more sophisticated then that fitted for mining implements. The mining barges are optimised for mining, while the cruisers are optimised for their weapons systems and other aspects.

To compare a mining barge to a cruiser is just wrong.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Solecist Project
#89 - 2016-08-18 06:58:23 UTC
It's funny how a code member complains about mining ships being weaponized.
Some would say it was predictable.

You do not realize how that makes you look, cocoa demon, does it?
You need to state reasons why it's a bad idea. So far you haven't.

So what if they don't use it, it wouldn't matter, they got the chance to do it.
It's a chance of shifting their minds... can it be you wouldn't want that?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#90 - 2016-08-18 06:59:32 UTC
Caco De'mon wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Even the various drone boats which have bonuses for drones have high slots that can take guns or launchers, mining ships can fit just mining equipment, so that blows your entire argument out of the water, there is no base flexibility for mining ships in terms of fitting weapons.


A Drone boat is still a combat ship through-and-through, it just has a specific flavor. It's core purpose is combat and there really is not secondary role. Yes, you could mine with a Tristan and still maintain its drone boat status but there is a reason you don't see many people doing that.

A mining vessel is purpose built to mine and just like in the real world, trying to add weapons to a civilian application is normally met with lots of LOLz. Of course it can be done but where as the Tristan-miner might be seen as being creative, a Retriever with a Pew-gun on it just moronic.

There should be no flexibility (in regards to weapons) on barges/exhume'ers because it's a very silly idea in the first place.

If that role is needed, then make a new class of Combat-Miner ships.

It's like WWII sure you could put a few 50 cals on a merchant ship and they might feel safer but in reality they were just are vulnerable as before. Then there are Attack-Transports that has multiple HMGs, 6" guns and 40mm Bofers....plus a crew actually trained for combat.

Maybe this post is out of place or off the mark but trying to weaponize basic miner ships is a really bad idea.


Which means you agree with me, I am pointing out that comparing a mining ship to a cruiser which is a flexible combat ship is just wrong.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Viktor Amarr
#91 - 2016-08-18 07:00:40 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
To compare a mining barge to a cruiser is just wrong.


Which is what you did.
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#92 - 2016-08-18 07:00:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Viktor Amarr wrote:


That''s silly logic, "Mining ships can't really fit guns so they are less flexible". Normal ships can't fit strip miners either, your point?



He does nothing but demand that barges be better able to defend themselves but here he is arguing against giving them that very ability.


Defend the attackers with drones, the only defence that matters is the tank. The drones take a bit of time to get to work...

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#93 - 2016-08-18 07:01:32 UTC
Viktor Amarr wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
To compare a mining barge to a cruiser is just wrong.


Which is what you did.


Nope I said that baltec1 was wrong to compare a mining ship to a cruiser.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Solecist Project
#94 - 2016-08-18 07:03:39 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Viktor Amarr wrote:


That''s silly logic, "Mining ships can't really fit guns so they are less flexible". Normal ships can't fit strip miners either, your point?



He does nothing but demand that barges be better able to defend themselves but here he is arguing against giving them that very ability.


Defend the attackers with drones, the only defence that matters is the tank. The drones take a bit of time to get to work...

No. A tank is not a defense.
To defend ones self means fighting back.
Hiding behind a wall isn't.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#95 - 2016-08-18 07:08:46 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Viktor Amarr wrote:


That''s silly logic, "Mining ships can't really fit guns so they are less flexible". Normal ships can't fit strip miners either, your point?



He does nothing but demand that barges be better able to defend themselves but here he is arguing against giving them that very ability.


Defend the attackers with drones, the only defence that matters is the tank. The drones take a bit of time to get to work...

No. A tank is not a defense.
To defend ones self means fighting back.
Hiding behind a wall isn't.


A buffer tank or effective reps are both valid in PvP. The drones take a bit of time to work, so the tank is needed. You do know what a tank is don't you? I have a Domi fit just like the Skiff, massive tank and anaemic DPS... It has a specific role, which you would define as hiding behind a wall, I call it very heavy tackle.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine
Astral Alliance
#96 - 2016-08-18 07:10:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Caco De'mon wrote:
Dracvlad wrote:
Even the various drone boats which have bonuses for drones have high slots that can take guns or launchers, mining ships can fit just mining equipment, so that blows your entire argument out of the water, there is no base flexibility for mining ships in terms of fitting weapons.


A Drone boat is still a combat ship through-and-through, it just has a specific flavor. It's core purpose is combat and there really is not secondary role. Yes, you could mine with a Tristan and still maintain its drone boat status but there is a reason you don't see many people doing that.

A mining vessel is purpose built to mine and just like in the real world, trying to add weapons to a civilian application is normally met with lots of LOLz. Of course it can be done but where as the Tristan-miner might be seen as being creative, a Retriever with a Pew-gun on it just moronic.

There should be no flexibility (in regards to weapons) on barges/exhume'ers because it's a very silly idea in the first place.

If that role is needed, then make a new class of Combat-Miner ships.

It's like WWII sure you could put a few 50 cals on a merchant ship and they might feel safer but in reality they were just are vulnerable as before. Then there are Attack-Transports that has multiple HMGs, 6" guns and 40mm Bofers....plus a crew actually trained for combat.

Maybe this post is out of place or off the mark but trying to weaponize basic miner ships is a really bad idea.


Skiff and procurer have a done HP and damage bonus.


Its a tanky mining ship, that bonus is not interesting for me in terms of the fact it is a mining ship, its nice to have, but adds nothing to its primary role.

When the going gets tough the Gankers get their CSM rep to change mechanics in their favour.

Blocked: Teckos Pech, Sonya Corvinus, baltec1, Shae Tadaruwa, Wander Prian, Daichi Yamato, Jonah Gravenstein, Merin Ryskin, Linus Gorp
Solecist Project
#97 - 2016-08-18 07:12:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
It changes nothing about a tank not being a defense.
It is merely a wall the defending entity can hide behind.

The defense is what's usually happening behind the wall ...
... and in a miner's case it's drones.

Though those drones aren't necessarily usefull if the tank lacks and there's no bonus.


Why are you so vehemently opposing this?
Looks like you have agood reason and you're not stating it.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#98 - 2016-08-18 07:22:13 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Defend the attackers with drones, the only defence that matters is the tank. The drones take a bit of time to get to work...


And you cant fit a tank on 4 of the barges due to a lack of slots, CPU and powergrid while the other two get the tank of a fully fitted cruiser baked into the hull. They are horribly broken.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#99 - 2016-08-18 07:23:30 UTC
Dracvlad wrote:


Its a tanky mining ship, that bonus is not interesting for me in terms of the fact it is a mining ship, its nice to have, but adds nothing to its primary role.


Its a combat bonus.
Solecist Project
#100 - 2016-08-18 07:28:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
meh last post of page.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia