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[118.7] Warp Bubble Dragging Change

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Noize Mex
Special Assault Unit
Pandemic Horde
#141 - 2016-07-03 03:26:45 UTC
I personally dont like the idea of that. its not really necessary in my opinion, just use pings. why wouldnt we do that? you should get punished if you warp to a gate on 0. i suppose the change is just because of citas? make citas anchor further from gates -.-

If you are to lazy to warp to a ping instead of directly to a gate or dont even change the warpin-angle and dont see the cita on the gate beforehand you just deserve to be punished!
Yun Kuai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#142 - 2016-07-03 06:49:58 UTC
Nadarob Skillane wrote:
Rain6637 wrote:
Players would rather keep their exploits? You don't say


How is it an exploit?

Bubbles will catch you if they are placed less than 1000km from the gate.
I spent quite a while finding out their exact range due to the grid size increase - took me dropping more than a few bubbles to get it exact.
I then put up a citadel and used that game MECHANIC - not exploit - to set up a nice bubble trap by my citadel.
I was one of the first, if not THE first to do the citadel bubble trap - I was certainly the first to expand it to encompass every celestial warpin to the gate.

Please dont call it an exploit when its a game mechanic that is easily overcome by a single ceptor setting a ping for your Null Sec roam.




To just point out the important bit here. Unless you a) already have a BM set up off the gate, b) have a ceptor in your fleet, or c) you yourself are flying something not actually looking to fight; i.e. travel ceptor, then you're going to die because you'll get caught by a wtfpwn citadel.

How can anyone say this isn't a broken mechanic when the guy who apparently started it all also found a way to make every celestial get caught in the citadel trap is beyond me. God forbid you actually roam around yourself and fight targets as they come instead of just preying on the the unfortunate.

TL:DR anything that causes less roaming should be changed, banned, fixed, or whatever you want to call it immediately.

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Yun Kuai
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2016-07-03 06:55:14 UTC
I would like to expand on this change and make it so the bubbles max pull range also is dynamic based on the size and variant of the bubble. i.e. small t1 bubbles can only anchor 100km off the gate ----> large faction bubbles can be anchored 500km off the gate (yes, they would mean revamping the syndicate bubbles to be better than the t2 versions).

On top of this change, make it so the bubbles can be anchored a max 5 times (you don't always get the bubble in the right spot the first time heh). After the 5 times, the bubble pops. Also, add a shorter decay time so that they can't stay in space for a month. something around 1-2 days would be good, and it would be good for the markets too.

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KongGal
Circle-0f-Two
Circle-Of-Two
#144 - 2016-07-03 09:45:06 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,

The current range that warp bubbles are effective (how far from your destination they can pull you out of warp) is a little unclear. This has lead to some 'interesting' possibilities, such as bubble camping a gate with a citadel.

With the 118.7 patch, we are considering changing the maximum distance for a warp bubble (mobile, probe or hictor bubble) to effect a warp to be 500km.

This means only warp disruption bubbles that are 500km in-front or behind your warp destination, which are inline with your warp, will pull you out of warp early or drag you.

What do you think? We'd love your feedback!


Oh yeah go ahead!
Cyno In Jita
Doomheim
#145 - 2016-07-03 09:45:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyno In Jita
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,

The current range that warp bubbles are effective (how far from your destination they can pull you out of warp) is a little unclear. This has lead to some 'interesting' possibilities, such as bubble camping a gate with a citadel.

With the 118.7 patch, we are considering changing the maximum distance for a warp bubble (mobile, probe or hictor bubble) to effect a warp to be 500km.

This means only warp disruption bubbles that are 500km in-front or behind your warp destination, which are inline with your warp, will pull you out of warp early or drag you.

What do you think? We'd love your feedback!


Great idea!

While we are at it, why not add a effect on ceptors that gives a penalty to align time while inside bubbles, they might be immune to bubbles warp disrupting effect but why not a penalty for the over protected warp core they now have.
Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#146 - 2016-07-03 11:19:02 UTC
Koenig Yazria wrote:
Ammzi wrote:
This is a bad change:

1. Circumventing citadel bubbles is incredibly trivial. For any roaming gang all they need is a ceptor to scout ahead (something most fleets already do) or a ping on the gate.
2. The citadel bubbles literally give a forewarning since they are announced system wide. If one is on your out-gate, you should probably consider warping to a ping or come from a random direction. This is unlike normal bubble camps which you won't know until you are in dscan range, something not all gates offer.
3. The citadels must be manned, if noone is in local you are probably safe to warp anywhere.

This is catering to roaming gangs who want easy access to hostile space. I use citadels this way as well, but I also encounter them when roaming into e.g. Horde space where there many citadels on their gates. I don't complain when people have the homefield advantage, only if they use something OP. Drag-bubble citadels that can be countered by any ceptor or gate ping are not OP, they simply catch those with no foresight in checking their out gate before pressing warp in nullsec.



https://zkillboard.com/kill/54906382/

https://zkillboard.com/kill/54906342/

Nullified Tengu hunter warped past and failed to notice.

But hey, gotta cater to the least capable because this is a thing nowadays.


Exactly, my point. If you don't do the minimum effort to secure yourself in nullsec - then why should you live?
As of 3 minutes ago this interceptor burned a ping on the gate for his Viator alt/friend to circumvent the bubble: http://i.imgur.com/qpjUM8E.png
It's really that easy.
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#147 - 2016-07-03 15:39:01 UTC
Temijin wrote:
Hate this! Nul is dangerous and eats the foolish. Scout...bounce off celestial so....travel in an Indy. Please stop reacting to whiners. They never stop as you should know very well by now CCP.


Translation:

We are incredible terrible at pvp, so we need an instant-repair station to help us win a fight again 5 cruiser or destroyers with 300 people.
Our super-tatic is press approach and FONE. Works only with instant-repair station, so the rest of our incredible team cna farm more isk into the game with titans and soopers all day.

You must play EVE as we say you must. If you are tied into a wheelchair, go to work like everyone else and buy 23ß358ß250167946 accounts like we say you must do. Stop being poor. Only rich people should live on Earth since we love to collect currency, currency is good, much more currency is much more gooderererer.

We - our incredible gank team - are only able to press approach and FONE, stop helping good pilots to escape our inescapable risk-free gank tarps.
Risk free tarps good, not as good as currency but good.

End translation.

How about no?

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#148 - 2016-07-03 16:20:19 UTC
I'm sorry, you don't get to claim "elite pvp" whilst going gate to gate. They are mutually exclusive.
Lokar Griman
The Untraceable
M A R A K U G A
#149 - 2016-07-03 17:17:12 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Space Friends,

The current range that warp bubbles are effective (how far from your destination they can pull you out of warp) is a little unclear. This has lead to some 'interesting' possibilities, such as bubble camping a gate with a citadel.

With the 118.7 patch, we are considering changing the maximum distance for a warp bubble (mobile, probe or hictor bubble) to effect a warp to be 500km.

This means only warp disruption bubbles that are 500km in-front or behind your warp destination, which are inline with your warp, will pull you out of warp early or drag you.

What do you think? We'd love your feedback!




Then whats the point having cidatels then? Cidale is there for space defence. Every exepriance pilot knows not to warp to gate to gate, if thers bubble on dscan.

Ccp should make less rules to the game, instead mkaing it easyer for the the mentaly disorded people.
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
#150 - 2016-07-03 17:38:21 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Temijin wrote:
Hate this! Nul is dangerous and eats the foolish. Scout...bounce off celestial so....travel in an Indy. Please stop reacting to whiners. They never stop as you should know very well by now CCP.


Translation:

We are incredible terrible at pvp, so we need an instant-repair station to help us win a fight again 5 cruiser or destroyers with 300 people.
Our super-tatic is press approach and FONE. Works only with instant-repair station, so the rest of our incredible team cna farm more isk into the game with titans and soopers all day.

You must play EVE as we say you must. If you are tied into a wheelchair, go to work like everyone else and buy 23ß358ß250167946 accounts like we say you must do. Stop being poor. Only rich people should live on Earth since we love to collect currency, currency is good, much more currency is much more gooderererer.

We - our incredible gank team - are only able to press approach and FONE, stop helping good pilots to escape our inescapable risk-free gank tarps.
Risk free tarps good, not as good as currency but good.

End translation.

How about no?


You seem lost and quite upset my friend. Might I help point you in the direction of low and high security space where you don't have to face such dangers?

Null defense is not about playing nice with small gang. We are here to crush you and keep you out of OUR space. If you wish to infiltrate and attack those within then you must work as a team. If that means bringing a ceptor/nullified t3 to burn pings then guess what that means you should do? I'll give you a hint, it's not cry to CCP to make that unnecessary.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#151 - 2016-07-03 17:59:04 UTC
Nasar Vyron wrote:

You seem lost and quite upset my friend. Might I help point you in the direction of low and high security space where you don't have to face such dangers?

Null defense is not about playing nice with small gang. We are here to crush you and keep you out of OUR space. If you wish to infiltrate and attack those within then you must work as a team. If that means bringing a ceptor/nullified t3 to burn pings then guess what that means you should do? I'll give you a hint, it's not cry to CCP to make that unnecessary.


you already had all this with just normal non-broken drag bubbles and no citadels. if this is what you need to defend your space, then I suggest actually you something something highsec
Lokar Griman
The Untraceable
M A R A K U G A
#152 - 2016-07-03 19:13:02 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:
Nasar Vyron wrote:

You seem lost and quite upset my friend. Might I help point you in the direction of low and high security space where you don't have to face such dangers?

Null defense is not about playing nice with small gang. We are here to crush you and keep you out of OUR space. If you wish to infiltrate and attack those within then you must work as a team. If that means bringing a ceptor/nullified t3 to burn pings then guess what that means you should do? I'll give you a hint, it's not cry to CCP to make that unnecessary.


you already had all this with just normal non-broken drag bubbles and no citadels. if this is what you need to defend your space, then I suggest actually you something something highsec



Clearly null sec is not for TrouserDeagle.
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
#153 - 2016-07-03 19:54:38 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:


you already had all this with just normal non-broken drag bubbles and no citadels. if this is what you need to defend your space, then I suggest actually you something something highsec



It's not needed, it's merely another tool at our disposal. One that is easily circumvented by anyone with a brain between their ears and a hair of patience.

Explain the difference to me between this and a drag bubble without a citadel when unmanned.

Now what about when it's manned vs if throw a few of my alts cloaked in smartbombing BB.


Both situations avoidable, both one sided as I get to chose if I take the engagement or not. Or should we possibly get rid of cloaks and smartbombs as well because they are too good of a trap for those traveling through null sec as well?
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#154 - 2016-07-03 20:21:00 UTC
Nasar Vyron wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:


you already had all this with just normal non-broken drag bubbles and no citadels. if this is what you need to defend your space, then I suggest actually you something something highsec



It's not needed, it's merely another tool at our disposal. One that is easily circumvented by anyone with a brain between their ears and a hair of patience.

Explain the difference to me between this and a drag bubble without a citadel when unmanned.

Now what about when it's manned vs if throw a few of my alts cloaked in smartbombing BB.


Both situations avoidable, both one sided as I get to chose if I take the engagement or not. Or should we possibly get rid of cloaks and smartbombs as well because they are too good of a trap for those traveling through null sec as well?


I'm hearing 'nullsec is too hardcore for you, go back to highsec' from a load of camping bads who want to sit on a station in overpowered capitals and F1 on people

it was fine before - if you want to yolo and not pussyfoot around the place, you get dragged. the people punishing you for that would actually be in space and off gate and you could shoot them
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#155 - 2016-07-03 20:21:02 UTC
Ilian Amarin wrote:
I dissagree.
I dont see any reason to make the game easier for people who are too stupid to use a scouting inty or bounce of celestials.


I dont see a reason to make gatecamping any easier or safer and pulling people right into your undock.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#156 - 2016-07-03 20:28:57 UTC
Hatshepsut IV wrote:
NO, please for the love of bob no.

The deleterious effect this will have on w-space meta would be crushing. A large degree of w-space pvp revolves around catching/forcing people out of jump range of a hole. Just off the top of my head things that would either no longer be possible or just not useful tactics anymore.


  • Hole control/Eviction style massing of holes. The entire concept of an eviction in w-space generally revolves around denying the opposing party all access and chance to use wormholes via keeping them crit and bubbles up to not allow them to roll/close them. (side note/ this will make holes with direct high sec connections basically impossible to evict)

  • Fire walling via dictor bubbles to prevent reinforcements/capitals from landing in optimal combat range is one of the more effective tactics a smaller well organized force has fight/gank a larger group. Removal of drag bubbles past 500km ensures such fights are just a n+1 affair.

  • Bubble camping W-space/highsec holes to catch people who don't scout. The entire activity becomes pointless if they can just warp blindly to the hole and still land at zero.

  • Placing drag bubbles between pos/citadels/holes to catch people useing as a pipeline.

The net result of this change from the perspective of a longtime wormholer and w-space CEO will be less killmails/less chance for interaction with people via pvp and a generally less risk environment



#CCPleasesavethebubble!


just curious, how does this change affect all of that jazz you described?
Not like I support this "fix" but how is 500km not enough for being able to do all of that?
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
#157 - 2016-07-03 20:33:42 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:

I'm hearing 'nullsec is too hardcore for you, go back to highsec' from a load of camping bads who want to sit on a station in overpowered capitals and F1 on people

it was fine before - if you want to yolo and not pussyfoot around the place, you get dragged. the people punishing you for that would actually be in space and off gate and you could shoot them


You can't be that stupid. You didn't even read what I said. Who said **** about capitals in this thread? Not to mention the second they engage they are vulnerable so GTFO of here with that mindset. In fact if you read my reply a few pages back I'm actually in favor of citadels becoming vulnerable for a period if their weapons are used outside of the normal vulnerability timer to give it some amount of risk. Other than that I see no need for change to any mechanics.


As you said, drag bubbles were fine before so I ask why change them? Why not adjust the new mechanics around the old.
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#158 - 2016-07-03 20:42:59 UTC
Nasar Vyron wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:

I'm hearing 'nullsec is too hardcore for you, go back to highsec' from a load of camping bads who want to sit on a station in overpowered capitals and F1 on people

it was fine before - if you want to yolo and not pussyfoot around the place, you get dragged. the people punishing you for that would actually be in space and off gate and you could shoot them


You can't be that stupid. You didn't even read what I said. Who said **** about capitals in this thread? Not to mention the second they engage they are vulnerable so GTFO of here with that mindset. In fact if you read my reply a few pages back I'm actually in favor of citadels becoming vulnerable for a period if their weapons are used outside of the normal vulnerability timer to give it some amount of risk. Other than that I see no need for change to any mechanics.


As you said, drag bubbles were fine before so I ask why change them? Why not adjust the new mechanics around the old.


I read a bit of your reply but it seemed kind of dumb. I didn't say anything about a citadel using its weapons
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
#159 - 2016-07-03 21:03:01 UTC
TrouserDeagle wrote:


I read a bit of your reply but it seemed kind of dumb. I didn't say anything about a citadel using its weapons


So maybe you are.... that has been the entire point of this change and topic of discussion here. Citadel gate camps with their PDS inspiring the desire for this change by CCP.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#160 - 2016-07-03 21:54:16 UTC
Anything that messes with nullsec dwellers is a big yes from me. Screw them.