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[Skill Prereq Tweaks] AWU and more!

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Pathe Alyeh
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#121 - 2016-06-07 03:43:48 UTC
Weapon Interfacing.

Since the capsuleer is controlling most of the weapon functions with his mind, it would make sense that improving the interface between mind and machine would lead to lower cpu overhead. Meanwhile, if we see the higher tiers of weapon upgrades as "more intricate" (you don't learn to juggle with chainsaws) and "more mentally taxing to the capsuleer" then it makes sense to call it interfacing.
Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#122 - 2016-06-07 04:16:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Narku Bourgeoisie Tonisilitis
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Can we find something that elegantly works for both?

Well, most basic skills with the word "Management" in them are almost all core skills... so why not "Weapon Management"?

As it is, I often recommend that newbeans train "Management" or "Upgrades" skills, e.g. Capacitor/CPU/Power Grid/Shield/Target Management, Hull/Shield/Weapon/Electronics/Energy Grid Upgrades. They're almost all core skills, and tbh I'd prefer things like Fighter Hangar Management and Supply Chain Management renamed (to have "Management" removed) before Weapon Upgrades is.

If there's not a way to simplify the naming for new players (who this is all for), then I'd say don't change the current name at all.
Oliver Ward
Doomheim
#123 - 2016-06-07 04:35:07 UTC
A new name for Weapons Upgrades, eh?

I kind of like "Weapons Integration" or "Weapons Processing." Or perhaps something long and unwieldy, like "Combat Enhancement Processing."
Raging Bull Unchained
Signal Lost
#124 - 2016-06-07 06:31:56 UTC
Could also just call it:

- Weapon powergrid management
- Weapon processor (cpu) management

Keep it simple :)
Sin Dekko
Vapor Lock.
Vapor-Lock
#125 - 2016-06-07 06:41:46 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
You folks are the reason I can't ever just make a small change. :P

With your "good ideas" and "well reasoned additions" bah humbug.

I've got a small set of other skill prereqs inspired by the GMP idea that we're investigating in addition to the AWU change:

  • Reducing the requirements for training the second tier factional ewar strength skills (Signal Dispersion, Signal Suppression, Signature Focusing and Weapon Destabilization) from CPU Management level 5 to 4
  • Reducing the requirements for training Nanite Operation and Nanite Interfacing from Mechanics level 5 to 4
  • Reducing the requirements for training Guided Missile Precision from Missile Launcher Operation level 5 to 4


On the subject of naming let's do a quick community brainstorming project:
If we wanted to change the name of the Weapon Upgrades skill to something that describes both halves of its purpose (it reduces weapon CPU usage and also opens up access to weapon upgrade modules like damage and tracking mods) what phrasing would be clearest?
The current name of "Weapon Upgrades" very clearly indicates what modules you gain access for by training the skill, but doesn't really describe the bonus provided by the skill itself.
Something like "Weapon CPU Optimization" has the opposite problem. It describes the skill bonus but not the modules you get access to.

Can we find something that elegantly works for both?



Weapon upgrades configuration
Sin Dekko
Vapor Lock.
Vapor-Lock
#126 - 2016-06-07 07:01:32 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey folks. Just got a small change today about which I want to start gathering feedback.

We're planning on reducing the prereqs for training the Advanced Weapon Upgrades skill from it's current level of Weapon Upgrades 5, to require Weapon Upgrades 4 instead.

If we go forward with it, this change would likely come in our 118.6 release at the end of June.

I have a feeling that the feedback here will be mostly positive, but I'm definitely interested in hearing what you think either way.
Thanks!


My thinking would be to just combine CPU and grid bonuses and just spread the effect over the 2 skills. That way it's a reasonable progression. Lvl 5 could still be required then. As a prerequisite I would expect a level 5 to be acceptable.
Skia Aumer
Planetary Harvesting and Processing LLC
#127 - 2016-06-07 07:24:51 UTC
Maybe even reduce AWU requirement to WU 3 or even 2 ?
WU itself is a very useful skill and should be trained to 5 asap anyway.
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2016-06-07 09:57:16 UTC
Weapon Fitting
Althalus Stenory
Flying Blacksmiths
#129 - 2016-06-07 11:45:02 UTC
Why not renaming both into weapon cpu upgrade, and weapon powergrid upgrade (or smth like this), remove prereq and adjust skill ranks ?
So we can train both when / if we need them.

EsiPy - Python 2.7 / 3.3+ Swagger Client based on pyswagger for ESI
Ragnar Sorlandschip
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2016-06-07 11:55:56 UTC
I'll take a potshot at Weapon Interfacing.

Instead of getting better at the CPU or upgrades, you get better at the stuff between those and the weapons.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#131 - 2016-06-07 15:07:38 UTC
Performance Weapon Generation

Combat Processor Upgrades
Danetta Valens
Phayder Research
#132 - 2016-06-08 01:32:03 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Sama Dobrota wrote:
CCP Fozzie,

i know this is off-topic, but PLEASE, make Micro Auxiliary Power Core II require Capacitor Management 4 not 5 !
this is frigsize module after all

Thanks

It's also a T2 module which is specialisation.
You can use Micro power corers without 5, Just use the T1, Meta & Faction variants instead.

Terrible argumentation.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#133 - 2016-06-08 06:43:29 UTC
Danetta Valens wrote:

Terrible argumentation.

Frigates are also not a newbie ship. They don't need to be able to fit all 'frigate sized' modules with low skill training. Frigates are simply a small ship. Any ship is viable end game, so the 'It's a frigate module' is no justification for a fast train.
And T2 should always require specialisation and be consistent across the game, and that standard currently is train the skill to V.
If every T2 module was going to drop to IV, that's a different story, but asking for it for just one module because 'it's frigate sized' is not good justification and in that case the T2 specialisation being V remaining makes sense.
Skir Skor
Stay Frosty.
A Band Apart.
#134 - 2016-06-08 11:30:15 UTC
If your going to the effort of 'fixing' stuff you might as well change Weapons Upgrade to a Int/Mem map.
Ripard Teg
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#135 - 2016-06-08 16:09:29 UTC
Weapon Fitting Optimization
Advanced Weapon Fitting Optimization

I can see the problem: you want the two skill names to be thematically linked, which is hard to do yet still stay consistent with the "X" and "Advanced X" meta you have established elsewhere.

The alternative is to change both skills so that Weapon Upgrades gives a large CPU bonus and a large grid bonus per level, and AWU gives a smaller CPU bonus and a smaller grid bonus per level. So you end up in the same place, but you get there quicker. That appeals to me in terms of making the skills more friendly to new players. But if you really need that last couple of percent, you still have to train the Advanced skill to V to get them.

aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#136 - 2016-06-11 06:18:06 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
You folks are the reason I can't ever just make a small change. :P

With your "good ideas" and "well reasoned additions" bah humbug.

I've got a small set of other skill prereqs inspired by the GMP idea that we're investigating in addition to the AWU change:

  • Reducing the requirements for training the second tier factional ewar strength skills (Signal Dispersion, Signal Suppression, Signature Focusing and Weapon Destabilization) from CPU Management level 5 to 4
  • Reducing the requirements for training Nanite Operation and Nanite Interfacing from Mechanics level 5 to 4
  • Reducing the requirements for training Guided Missile Precision from Missile Launcher Operation level 5 to 4


letting people use 5 drones from the start would also be nice (idk what you would do with the skill) but it is odd that to use that weapon system you need to train its base skill to 5 could you imagine if launcher operation or gunnery worked in a similar way? Drones are no longer just a secondary system. now even T1 frigs use 5 lights as their primary armament

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#137 - 2016-06-12 12:21:12 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
You folks are the reason I can't ever just make a small change. :P

With your "good ideas" and "well reasoned additions" bah humbug.

I've got a small set of other skill prereqs inspired by the GMP idea that we're investigating in addition to the AWU change:

  • Reducing the requirements for training the second tier factional ewar strength skills (Signal Dispersion, Signal Suppression, Signature Focusing and Weapon Destabilization) from CPU Management level 5 to 4
  • Reducing the requirements for training Nanite Operation and Nanite Interfacing from Mechanics level 5 to 4
  • Reducing the requirements for training Guided Missile Precision from Missile Launcher Operation level 5 to 4


letting people use 5 drones from the start would also be nice (idk what you would do with the skill) but it is odd that to use that weapon system you need to train its base skill to 5 could you imagine if launcher operation or gunnery worked in a similar way? Drones are no longer just a secondary system. now even T1 frigs use 5 lights as their primary armament


I'll even add that we could lower the required skills for light drones. Needing drones to level three before you can use anything but civilian drones is also annoying.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#138 - 2016-06-13 13:07:02 UTC
Ripard Teg wrote:
Weapon Fitting Optimization
Advanced Weapon Fitting Optimization

I can see the problem: you want the two skill names to be thematically linked, which is hard to do yet still stay consistent with the "X" and "Advanced X" meta you have established elsewhere.

The alternative is to change both skills so that Weapon Upgrades gives a large CPU bonus and a large grid bonus per level, and AWU gives a smaller CPU bonus and a smaller grid bonus per level. So you end up in the same place, but you get there quicker. That appeals to me in terms of making the skills more friendly to new players. But if you really need that last couple of percent, you still have to train the Advanced skill to V to get them.


The names should be really similar if we go with this but if they stay as they are with effect on 2 different stats, the name should show this by not just being X and advanced X.
First Navigator
Guild Navigators
Memento Moriendo
#139 - 2016-06-13 13:44:56 UTC
CCP, for once I would like to hear the real motivation behind a decision, such as this. I don't like the direction at all.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#140 - 2016-06-14 09:59:48 UTC
Keep it going Fozzman. The more artificial barriers like lvl V skills needed to play that doesn't change anything but waiting to train and ship spinning in station is better for this game. I would like to see all V prequisited for T2 hulls reduced to lvl IV. No reason to lock content this way.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville