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Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#1321 - 2016-04-12 17:46:09 UTC
On my lunch break -

And it seems that if I ever make it to fanfest and get smashed (don't drink but I am sure I can over load on some other liquid) I have a reason to pull out my man parts and pee on some dev shoes.

66 pages plus of feedback and i still don't feel comfortable with this idea, even though I have purposes ideas like this before.

I have already posted feed back before -

As it stands right now, CCP Snorlax seems to be the only one (and his team) listening to player feed back.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1322 - 2016-04-12 17:56:45 UTC
Amarisen Gream wrote:


As it stands right now, CCP Snorlax seems to be the only one (and his team) listening to player feed back.


Listening to feedback does not mean implementing anything the player base will ask/request. As long as you miss that point, you will always think they don't listen.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#1323 - 2016-04-12 18:01:47 UTC
Erihn Sabrovich wrote:
The problem is, that only players DO CREATE content...

/Fixed

It's all in your head. Or it isn't. If it isn't, it's a waste of time, no matter what.

Remove standings and insurance.
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1324 - 2016-04-12 18:04:17 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Amarisen Gream wrote:


As it stands right now, CCP Snorlax seems to be the only one (and his team) listening to player feed back.


Listening to feedback does not mean implementing anything the player base will ask/request. As long as you miss that point, you will always think they don't listen.


Considering that player numbers have clearly shown how well CCPs idea of EVE as small gang fighting simulation is going it might be time to actually listen to player feedback. There are competent people on all sides who love this game and give feedback not so that their side will benefit but because they want EVE to stay strong so that we have somewhere to hang out and share, what is becoming less and less, a unique game with others.
Vasiliy Stalin
Academy Diesel Corporation
Intercom.
#1325 - 2016-04-12 18:06:59 UTC
ccp rise, you're wrong.

nowadays we've got learning as some thing across the game, we don't have an another way to get some skillpoints, then to learn. even skill points from skill injectors were learned some day.

so, I won't more play this game, sorry. there was a good idea to return in this summer to try Citadels and new capitals, but.. I just don't want. it'll be better if you changed the most bored things in Eve instead of skillpoints from the air, planetary interaction, epic arcs, or npc's for example.
Circumstantial Evidence
#1326 - 2016-04-12 18:23:02 UTC
Thank you for the small change reducing the grind some players may feel compelled toward, but the feature is still incomplete in that it favors only one playstyle.

Tippia suggested to simply reward the act of logging in. Some players would do nothing for 10 minutes, but some others won't be able to help themselves... "OK I'm here, may as well do X..."

Feature is still a manipulative grab at some small percent activity increase, when so much more is being accomplished right now with regular improvements to the game that bring back long-term players to try out the changes. Events like Frostline / Guristas get players in space, and the loot offers trading and building opportunities in addition to shooting rats. Just keep those events coming, and I won't feel manipulated :) On the cusp of the Citadel expansion, which is driving a lot of player excitement about new things to do and build and explode, this feature... timing is bad.

Feature still continues the devaluation of skill points by making them a commodity CCP will start giving out in this - and quite probably future promotions. 2016 will be remembered as the year the SP floodgates were opened, and a unique aspect of EVE character progression was changed.

Some interesting alternative rewards I've seen:

  • "Project Discovery" type of LP, offering unique rewards redeemable at 3/6/12 months
  • CONCORD LP
  • Aurum
  • Ability to drain allocated SP into the unallocated pool


Tavari Minrathos
PC Load Letter
#1327 - 2016-04-12 18:34:23 UTC
I have questions about implementation.

1 Character per account per day.

First, can it just reset with daily downtime as opposed to 22 hours? Less tracking on the player side. While there is some benefit if you can log on 24/7 to min/max the 22 hour thing, I would prefer it to just be once per daily server reset.

2) How will this work for fleets? Everyone how damages? Last hit? Won't work in fleet? How will nondamaging roles work (logi/ewar)?

I don't think you want to discourage fleeting, but I do think you want everyone out in a ship so killing blow makes the most sense to me. That way for a main/alt combo in space, the main can do most of the damage and the scanning/logi alt can get final blow with drones. Implications get weird if everyone in fleet gets credit for 1 NPC kill (incursions, micro me and my alts fleets in null for 1 kill)

Only sort of related, but would you (CCP) consider reducing the amount of sites/rats in .8 or higher and increasing them in .7-.5 to increase risk ever so slightly in HiSec?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#1328 - 2016-04-12 19:01:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
CCP Rise wrote:
Another small update:

Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.

Thanks

Thanks! Will it still be 10,000 SP? When you had it at all three pilots able to get this reward, it was 30,000 per account per day.......

But that may be overkill. At 30,000 SP per account per day, you can fill an injector every 17 days on average and almost fund your account.

This would not be part of your evil plan, would it? Get more SP to players, so they buy more extractors, so you sell more Aurum and PLEX?

May I also suggest that if you expand this to other activities, like hacking a can, mining a roid, and so on, you put an OR between those activities. That is, I can just do one of them, whichever one I happen to want to do, and get the reward.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#1329 - 2016-04-12 19:12:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Shallanna Yassavi
CCP Rise wrote:
Another small update:

Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.

Thanks

It's still a bad joke.

It's still the game telling some of us what to do before before we go do what we really wanted to do, and the game telling us we have to do it every 22 hours or so.

I run a lot of missions. I kill a lot of rats. I'm bad at PvP. I still think this is a bad idea, because I've seen and experienced these kinds of systems before and know what they do.

A signature :o
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#1330 - 2016-04-12 19:14:31 UTC
So you're set on this and nothing's going to change your mind?

Well, fortunately you have statistics that will show you exactly how bad this is a couple of months after introduction, when daily logins rise (obviously) but subscriptions and pvp activity drop and people cite burn out from dailies as the reason they quit.
Circumstantial Evidence
#1331 - 2016-04-12 19:15:33 UTC
@ Vincent Athena:
CCP Rise in post #14 wrote:
"how about a reward for either killing an NPC, hacking a Data/Relic thingy or popping a rock?" - Likely one of the first ways we would look to expand in a follow-up release.
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#1332 - 2016-04-12 19:26:18 UTC
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Another small update:

Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.

Thanks

It's still a bad joke.

It's still the game telling some of us what to do before we start doing before we go do what we really wanted to do, and the game telling us we have to do it every 22 hours or so.


The Dailies are bonuses; they are suggestions. You can choose to not do them if you want to. Just because the game tells you it can be done, does not make it obligatory. If you want the extra SP, go for it. If you don't need the extra SP, you can leave them be.

Just don't try to ruin it for everyone because it is a mechanic that you do not like on a personal level. For us newer players, this is a blessing. No longer will our skill training be bound to the whims of the set skill queue training times; we can buff up and quicken our training with skill points earned through completion of dailies.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1333 - 2016-04-12 19:30:18 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
So you're set on this and nothing's going to change your mind?

Well, fortunately you have statistics that will show you exactly how bad this is a couple of months after introduction, when daily logins rise (obviously) but subscriptions and pvp activity drop and people cite burn out from dailies as the reason they quit.


Can't wait for the "I quit" forum post from people burning themselves out on optional content.
Axhind
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#1334 - 2016-04-12 19:35:03 UTC
Pryce Caesar wrote:
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Another small update:

Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.

Thanks

It's still a bad joke.

It's still the game telling some of us what to do before we start doing before we go do what we really wanted to do, and the game telling us we have to do it every 22 hours or so.


The Dailies are bonuses; they are suggestions. You can choose to not do them if you want to. Just because the game tells you it can be done, does not make it obligatory. If you want the extra SP, go for it. If you don't need the extra SP, you can leave them be.

Just don't try to ruin it for everyone because it is a mechanic that you do not like on a personal level. For us newer players, this is a blessing. No longer will our skill training be bound to the whims of the set skill queue training times; we can buff up and quicken our training with skill points earned through completion of dailies.



Dailies are put in because human psychology is such that people feel forced to do it. Otherwise nobody would put it into their game. How exactly is it optional if the main reason for introducing, as cited by CCP Rise, is to get/force players to login?
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#1335 - 2016-04-12 19:38:02 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
@ Vincent Athena:
CCP Rise in post #14 wrote:
"how about a reward for either killing an NPC, hacking a Data/Relic thingy or popping a rock?" - Likely one of the first ways we would look to expand in a follow-up release.


Right. But is the a AND between those, or an OR? That is do you have to do them all to get the maximum reward, or just one from the list?

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#1336 - 2016-04-12 19:38:06 UTC
So this is completely anecdotal evidence, take it for what it's worth.

I checked in with a friend of mine who is currently unsubbed. His reaction was an immediate "uh-oh," followed by the opinion that the introduction of dailies is not something that bodes well for the future of a game. He thought 10k was an awful lot of skillpoints, and figured he would pretty much have to set time aside to do the daily in order to not lag behind other players. He didn't see the correlation between logging in to shoot an npc and an increase in in-game activity. Instead, he figured it was stat-padding to keep up appearances for investors and stakeholders.

I've been trying to lure him back in, turns out I'm into co-dependency I guess. I don't think this change will make it more likely he'll return.

Again, completely anecdotal, I know -- so if you want to dismiss it as the desperate gambit of an entrenched contrarian I suppose there's not much I can do about it.
Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1337 - 2016-04-12 19:48:08 UTC
Considering that eve is focused around a PVP environment, having people Incouraged. To log on and leave a station is a good thing. More people to shoot. With the removal of clone up grades the risk of sp loss Is minimal.

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Niko Lorenzio
United Eve Directorate
#1338 - 2016-04-12 19:49:48 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Masao Kurata wrote:
So you're set on this and nothing's going to change your mind?

Well, fortunately you have statistics that will show you exactly how bad this is a couple of months after introduction, when daily logins rise (obviously) but subscriptions and pvp activity drop and people cite burn out from dailies as the reason they quit.


Can't wait for the "I quit" forum post from people burning themselves out on optional content.


More like "I quit because I'm tired of CCP continually ******* over their game and players." I have more sp than I know what to do with. Personally neither this nor sp trading affects me at all. One of alts is training with no implants because I've been too lazy to login and Jump clone to my +5.

That doesn't mean I don't care about something that doesn't affect me or support something just because it would benefit me personally. These are things that affect the entire game and players. Would you like it if your country replaced the national flag with a picture of a big turd? it's optional, you don't have to hang that flag outside your window. Are you really affected personally by govt spying on and prosecuting journalists and dissidents if you're not one yourself?

The CSM XI Election are now open until March 25th, 2016. Consider Niko Lorenzio for CSM XI.

CSM matters, your voice matters, your vote matters!
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#1339 - 2016-04-12 19:53:36 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Can't wait for the "I quit" forum post from people burning themselves out on optional content.

I understand that argument, I really do. But the thing is that something can be optional and compulsory at the same time. (Not mandatory compulsory, soft compulsory.) All it takes is that the payoff is high enough, or the punishment for abstaining is harsh enough -- and people will figure it out on their own. This is usually known as a false choice. And in games, which are supposed to be if not fun then at least entertaining, it's almost always a ****** thing.

The best example I have on hand from Eve is the recently departed skillclones. It was completely optional to forego keeping your clone up to date. No one made you push that button.

For characters that risked getting podded, the cost/benefit estimation was obvious. You keep it updated. If you didn't, there was a very real possibility that you would lose out on skillpoints. There was just no way you would chose the paltry isk savings over sp loss.

That's not an interesting mechanic or system to engage with. It was just drag.

(For characters that didn't risk getting podded, such as station traders, the cost/benefit was equally obvious. The risk of getting podded was zero and nil, so there was no way you would chose even a paltry cost to safeguard against a non-existant risk. Also not an interesting choice to make. But atleast you didn't have to engage with it at regular intervals.)
Indahmawar Fazmarai
#1340 - 2016-04-12 20:00:11 UTC
Mizhir wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Another small update:

Thanks to feedback we see that it would improve the experience quite a lot minimize the amount of characters available for this reward so we are going to limit the reward to the first character completing the daily task on each account.

Thanks


Still not making them weekly? Dailies are still a ***** for players who don't have the time or the desire to log into EVE each day but still play actively on the days they do.


He already explained. The issue is the people who stopped login in daily because of the extended skill queue. Weekly rewards would do nothing to sort the issue.