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[Citadels] Supercarriers

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Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#41 - 2016-03-31 18:52:46 UTC
Molly Shears wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:

[...]
  • +5 bonus to ship warp core strength
    • [...]


    1 stiletto can tackle it with 2 domination Scrambler ?


    It's +5 per level.
    Edriahn
    The Scope
    Gallente Federation
    #42 - 2016-03-31 19:18:17 UTC
    So basically, only a ****** would train for a nyx and a Hel right now. After all the feedback we gave you, you got nothing.
    Anyway, I was wondering whether to keep my gallente carrier V skills, now it's obviously I don't need it.

    Can you at least fix the horrible Aeon model, now that there are only 2 supercarriers in game?

    [20:46:05] Komahal > pl is cancer
    SWJesus
    WE HATE
    #43 - 2016-03-31 19:22:18 UTC  |  Edited by: SWJesus
    u would think that after running this game for while ccp would
    learn to listen to "testers", but ofc not..

    Nyx/hell boni are bad joke.
    AOE target paint ...lfmau? why not webs, so those supers can pewpew kity fleets..?!?!
    The EHP > Dmg gap .. seriously?

    Balancing is a myth..
    CCP Larrikin
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #44 - 2016-03-31 19:42:00 UTC
    Hey Mates,

    We've tweaked the bonuses & stats a little. We've upped the damage bonus of the Nyx and Hel up to 10% per level, and brought the amount of shield/armor a little closer together between the Aeon/Nyx & Wyvern/Hel.

    Let us know what you think :)

    Game Designer | Team Phenomenon | https://twitter.com/CCP_Larrikin
    FT Diomedes
    The Graduates
    #45 - 2016-03-31 19:42:42 UTC
    Really glad I got an Aeon instead of a Nyx.

    CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

    Soleil Fournier
    Fliet Pizza Delivery
    Of Essence
    #46 - 2016-03-31 19:49:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
    Ok Bros, my biggest concern right now is the Nyx being inferior to the other 3 supers and losing it's King of Damage title.

    This is due to Drone Damage Amps and extra lowslots to use them.

    Here's the rundown:

    2 plates, 3 Actives, 2 EANM.

    15 million skillpoints for Nyx, 17 Million for Aeon. But when Aeon adds in a DDA in the 8th lowslot, it now does only 5% less damage than the nyx.

    If the Nyx takes off an EANM to put on a DDA, it goes down to 12 million EHP, which isn't viable when compared to the other options such as the 14 million EHP Hel + Hel's extra damage due to ability to fit extra DDAs. Aeon could also just drop a eanm to keep pace.

    So the Nyx is the new blacksheep.


    Thoughts?
    Soleil Fournier
    Fliet Pizza Delivery
    Of Essence
    #47 - 2016-03-31 19:58:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
    CCP Larrikin wrote:
    Hey Mates,

    We've tweaked the bonuses & stats a little. We've upped the damage bonus of the Nyx and Hel up to 10% per level, and brought the amount of shield/armor a little closer together between the Aeon/Nyx & Wyvern/Hel.

    Let us know what you think :)


    Doesn't fix the Nyx problem, but it does help.

    Hel can afford more DDAs, so it now in a max tank fit it out-damages the Nyx while having only a slightly lower buffer tank. If nyx drops one tank mod to add 1 DDA, it willl have much less tank than the hel and the hel probably still out damages it because it will have at least 2 DDAs. Nyx simply can't match it.

    Nyx vs Aeon now looks like: 17 million EHP Aeon, 15 million EHP Nyx, but with the Nyx only doing 5% more damage than the Aeon. using the build in my post above, 2 plates, 3 actives, 2 eanm plus DDA for Aeon. So Aeon is the better choice. Dropping tank mods and going down to 12 million EHP isn't viable......but then I'd just get a hel because of the first paragraph or drop an EANM off the aeon. Nyx still loses.
    Circumstantial Evidence
    #48 - 2016-03-31 20:30:17 UTC
    Soleil Fournier wrote:
    CCP Larrikin wrote:
    Hey Mates,

    We've tweaked the bonuses & stats a little. We've upped the damage bonus of the Nyx and Hel up to 10% per level, and brought the amount of shield/armor a little closer together between the Aeon/Nyx & Wyvern/Hel.

    Let us know what you think :)
    Doesn't fix the Nyx problem, but it does help.

    One: Hel can afford more DDAs, so it now out-damages the Nyx while having only a slightly lower tank. If nyx drops one tank mod to add 1 DDA, it willl have less tank than the hel, and the hel probably still out damages it because it will have at least 2 DDAs. Nyx simply can't match it. .
    This becomes a debate about balance philosophy: Should all capitals offer equal damage and tank, and just differ on role specializations, like ewar?
    Soleil Fournier
    Fliet Pizza Delivery
    Of Essence
    #49 - 2016-03-31 20:32:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
    My point isn't about equal everything.

    My point is why would you chose to fly a ship that has BOTH less damage and less tank? Or has significantly less tank for only 5% damage bonus?

    It's about viability not equality. And right now even with the 10% damage per level the Nyx is not viable when compared to the other options available
    Archeras Umangiar
    Lowlife.
    Snuffed Out
    #50 - 2016-03-31 21:06:56 UTC
    i believe the inertia is wrong on the revenant
    Tashiell Gao
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #51 - 2016-03-31 21:20:27 UTC
    Give Hel an agility bonus instead of Nyx level damage bonus, but retain the fighter velocity bonus.
    Circumstantial Evidence
    #52 - 2016-03-31 21:21:41 UTC
    Soleil Fournier wrote:
    My point isn't about equal everything.

    My point is why would you chose to fly a ship that has BOTH less damage and less tank? Or has significantly less tank for only 5% damage bonus?

    It's about viability not equality. And right now even with the 10% damage per level the Nyx is not viable when compared to the other options available
    You may be right, in a 1v1. But what about Nyx other benefits?

    -toughest fighters
    -largest fighter hanger

    The new design offers a greater possibility of anti-fighter warfare... the higher damage possibility offered by other ships could be degraded in combat.
    Archeras Umangiar
    Lowlife.
    Snuffed Out
    #53 - 2016-03-31 21:22:53 UTC
    Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
    Soleil Fournier wrote:
    My point isn't about equal everything.

    My point is why would you chose to fly a ship that has BOTH less damage and less tank? Or has significantly less tank for only 5% damage bonus?

    It's about viability not equality. And right now even with the 10% damage per level the Nyx is not viable when compared to the other options available
    You may be right, in a 1v1. But what about Nyx other benefits?

    -toughest fighters
    -largest fighter hanger

    The new design offers a greater possibility of anti-fighter warfare... the higher damage possibility offered by other ships could be degraded in combat.




    have you ever seen an actuall super 1v1 dude? lol
    Soleil Fournier
    Fliet Pizza Delivery
    Of Essence
    #54 - 2016-03-31 21:29:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
    Let's talk jump ranges.

    This patch is the best time to address them. They're horrid and leading to people not dealing with caps or moving them especially if ur Corp moves across a long distance.

    2.5ly (5 LY max skills) is way too burdonsome. I prefer 8 LY max skills but 7LY is a good compromise. Fatigue still makes projection implausible, but this eases the burden on cap pilots needing 800 jumps to move 3 regions over.
    Soleil Fournier
    Fliet Pizza Delivery
    Of Essence
    #55 - 2016-03-31 21:34:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
    Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
    Soleil Fournier wrote:
    My point isn't about equal everything.

    My point is why would you chose to fly a ship that has BOTH less damage and less tank? Or has significantly less tank for only 5% damage bonus?

    It's about viability not equality. And right now even with the 10% damage per level the Nyx is not viable when compared to the other options available
    You may be right, in a 1v1. But what about Nyx other benefits?

    -toughest fighters
    -largest fighter hanger

    The new design offers a greater possibility of anti-fighter warfare... the higher damage possibility offered by other ships could be degraded in combat.



    This is a fleet issue. Supers rarely if ever 1v1 anything.

    When alliances are choosing their fleet setups, a bigger hanger Bay or slightly tougher fighters do not factor into the equation. It's all about tank and damage and capability on the field.

    The nyx (and hel) will be secondary choices by default due to damage caps on citadels and the need to tank them for 30 minutes. So they should bring value on the battlefield in fleet fights by removing hostile caps faster. But if u want damage, you would choose the hel. Or drop an EANM from the Aeon and add another DDA. Both more viable than the nyx.

    Where does that leave nyx's? Logged off and unused. And that is the problem.
    Syrias Bizniz
    some random local shitlords
    #56 - 2016-03-31 21:43:57 UTC
    Quick idea for the Nyx:

    Move 1 Highslot to 1 Lowslot.
    Result: Same "effective lowslots" as Aeon. Nyx is the DPS option if max gank, Aeon the tank option if max tank. Roughly equal in mixed tank/dps fits. Nyx has one less utility high compared to Aeon, but one more utility mid. Nyx can go for a light shield tank and turbo dps / mobility, making it versatile and an interesting ship with many setups, each at a tradeoff, whereas the Aeon would still be what it is: The thing with the max tank, that can also go DPS.
    Circumstantial Evidence
    #57 - 2016-03-31 21:54:04 UTC
    Soleil Fournier wrote:
    This is a fleet issue. Supers rarely if ever 1v1 anything.

    And when alliances are choosing their fleet setups, a bigger hanger Bay or slightly tougher fighters do not factor into the equation. It's all about tank and damage and capability on the field. Bigger hanger Bay is ancillary at best.

    The nyx (and hel) will be secondary choices by default due to damage caps on citadels and the need to tank them for 30 minutes. But they should still bring value on the battlefield in fleet fights. But if u want damage, you would choose the hel. Where does that leave nyx's? Logged off and unused.
    In a fleet engagement, someone could be running anti-fighters, chopping up DPS. I don't really know how this will play out in advance... I'm just thinking about the saying regarding what happens to plans in war ;)
    Soleil Fournier
    Fliet Pizza Delivery
    Of Essence
    #58 - 2016-03-31 21:55:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Soleil Fournier
    You would do that in carriers who can deploy the same amount of light fighters. Or just smart bomb blob. And aeons could just do it themselves too. Wouldn't bring nyx's specifically for that.
    Atomeon
    Federal Navy Academy
    Gallente Federation
    #59 - 2016-03-31 23:13:19 UTC
    Just make ONE Carrier with same bonus for all and 4 different skins to make everyone happy.

    Is that so hard?P
    Rowells
    Blackwater USA Inc.
    Pandemic Horde
    #60 - 2016-03-31 23:30:30 UTC
    How about a warp speed bonus for the hel? :D