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[Citadels] Carriers

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Lugh Crow-Slave
#141 - 2016-04-01 23:33:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
maybe give carriers 4 fighter squads and let them have 3 lights and 2 support?

they would still have anemic DPS but at least they could play more of a support role and E-war fighters will see more use

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Shalashaska Adam
Snakes and Lasers
#142 - 2016-04-02 03:06:43 UTC
When are we going to see the thread for dreads?
Marranar Amatin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#143 - 2016-04-02 07:38:18 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
maybe give carriers 4 fighter squads and let them have 3 lights and 2 support?

they would still have anemic DPS but at least they could play more of a support role and E-war fighters will see more use


Thats a good idea, something like that is probably the only way to make ewar fighter useful.
Loosing 1/3 of the dps is simply not worth some ewar, when there are cheaper specialized ships that can do the job better. You also wouldnt remove 2 guns from a Machariel to fit a dampener or something like that. So giving the ability to launch support fighters that do not compete with damage, is probably the only way.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#144 - 2016-04-02 11:12:43 UTC
Marranar Amatin wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
maybe give carriers 4 fighter squads and let them have 3 lights and 2 support?

they would still have anemic DPS but at least they could play more of a support role and E-war fighters will see more use


Thats a good idea, something like that is probably the only way to make ewar fighter useful.
Loosing 1/3 of the dps is simply not worth some ewar, when there are cheaper specialized ships that can do the job better. You also wouldnt remove 2 guns from a Machariel to fit a dampener or something like that. So giving the ability to launch support fighters that do not compete with damage, is probably the only way.


aye and at the same time if you do want to drop 1/3 of your DPS to double your E-war utility you still have that option

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Shakira Akira
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#145 - 2016-04-02 12:54:35 UTC
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Yes, you'll need the new skill. Buy it now, inject it, train it to 3 or 4. Voila, on release you're ready.



Yeah, seems like the only thing to do.. still sucks having to fork out another 100mil and 12 days just to be able to use the same thing I could use before.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#146 - 2016-04-02 13:02:49 UTC
Shakira Akira wrote:
Syrias Bizniz wrote:
Yes, you'll need the new skill. Buy it now, inject it, train it to 3 or 4. Voila, on release you're ready.



Yeah, seems like the only thing to do.. still sucks having to fork out another 100mil and 12 days just to be able to use the same thing I could use before.


Not as bad as the mess with making carriers and FAX the same skill just to avoid a few ppl getting an sp boost (something that's not really all that big a deal now that ppl are buying their way to max sp)

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#147 - 2016-04-02 13:14:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
So I'm in a thanatos with 4 FSUs.

I can't even keep WEB drones on a cerberus MWDing because they're so slow.

They last until the MWD wears off, then it outruns them webbed.

Again with the fighter speed guys, come on.



Generic feedback:

Also please make fighters load into tubes instantly when docked.
Fighter volume is terrible. I mean, the thanny hanger at max is 87.5k m3. That's 500 wasted for a start..... but moreover that's 87 drones, or slightly over 3 flights of DPS drones (3 flights of templars would be 81k m3). That's quite honestly not even close to good enough. You can't even get three flights of the lightest fighters are a squad is 12k m3
Fighter EHP is questionable anyway, but exceptionally poor coupled with the volume.



Ed 06 Apr: At time of post fighter skills are all bugged. Thrust of concerns remains, if not the specific numbers.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#148 - 2016-04-02 13:24:23 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
So I'm in a thanatos with 4 FSUs.

I can't even keep WEB drones on a cerberus MWDing because they're so slow.

They last until the MWD wears off, then it outruns them webbed.

Again with the fighter speed guys, come on.



Generic feedback:

Also please make fighters load into tubes instantly when docked.
Fighter voloume is terrible. I mean, the thanny hanger at max is 87.5k m3. That's 500 wasted for a start..... but moreover that's 87 drones, or slightly over 3 flights of DPS drones (3 flights would be 81k m3). That's quite honestly not even close to good enough.
Fighter EHP is questionable anyway, but exceptionally poor coupled with the volume.


Lol you think the Thanny has it bad look at the Chimera

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#149 - 2016-04-02 13:30:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
I only mentioned the thanny as that was what I was in at the time and has the biggest bay :)


The damage is really crappy too, needs more ammo in the heavy rocket salvo. Like 2-3 times as much tbh and omfg make it auto repeat toggleable.

ed: unless the FCU are still buggy?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#150 - 2016-04-02 13:38:08 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
I only mentioned the thanny as that was what I was in at the time and has the biggest bay :)


The damage is really crappy too, needs more ammo in the heavy rocket salvo. Like 2-3 times as much tbh and omfg make it auto repeat toggleable.

ed: unless the FCU are still buggy?


They are they still increase cycle time Not reduce it

10 shots is fine they just don't do enough alpha

The reason they don't auto repay is because they ate supposed to be this big punch when you need a burst of alpha similar to the heavy torpedo Salvo. Problem is fighters don't do any dps even when they use it and they are hardly worth the effort to launch them if you don't use it

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#151 - 2016-04-02 13:49:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Yeah, the speed is criminal too. 951 m/s for firbs with 4 FCU. That was what I'd actually hoped was bugged, but no, offlining them made them slower still.

A freakin' hyperion would outrun them.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#152 - 2016-04-02 14:05:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Yeah, the speed is criminal too. 951 m/s for firbs with 4 FCU. That was what I'd actually hoped was bugged, but no, offlining them made them slower still.

A freakin' hyperion would outrun them.


The FSU stacking penalize speed and ccp will not say if this is a bug or intended

EDIT: however the issue of speed when keeping up with a target is not an issue the issue is the lack of range they have do to the speed.

When it comes to keeping up with targets that's what your support fleet is for

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#153 - 2016-04-02 14:59:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Morrigan LeSante
Its kind of an issue when the webbing fighters can't keep up with a target they have webbed and moreover the fact you need to pull drones to re-arm them.

I've bitched about it repeatedly in slack, the speed is a non issue if we didnt need to pull to reload and webbing drones could actually sit on a webbed target without burning a cooldown.

I covered the fact their vaunted "long range" is a nonsense too, but I was literally the only voice. No-one gave a crap. At least I tried. The argument is with the range comes trade offs, which is not wihout merit, it does need a drawback: except the drawbacks are currently so severe it is completely unusable.

Drop at 0 or GTFO. More likely, don't drop at all and warp to anom....
Lugh Crow-Slave
#154 - 2016-04-02 15:15:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
Its kind of an issue when the webbing fighters can't keep up with a target they have webbed and moreover the fact you need to pull drones to re-arm them.

I've bitched about it repeatedly in slack, the speed is a non issue if we didnt need to pull to reload and webbing drones could actually sit on a webbed target without burning a cooldown.

I covered the fact their vaunted "long range" is a nonsense too, but I was literally the only voice. No-one gave a crap. At least I tried. The argument is with the range comes trade offs, which is not wihout merit, it does need a drawback: except the drawbacks are currently so severe it is completely unusable.

Drop at 0 or GTFO. More likely, don't drop at all and warp to anom....


Not to mention one of the drawbacks is LACK OF RANGE
It's like they want to pretend they have all this range bit not give them a weapon system that can utilise it
And the Ewar fighters are just bad all around

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Barune Darkor
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#155 - 2016-04-02 15:40:49 UTC
Havent seen this mentioned yet. What about the cost of fighters now that we need twice as many if them as before? Are their material costs going to be reduced?

Lights and heavys will carry over but what about bpos for the new fighter classes prior to the changes?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#156 - 2016-04-02 15:54:30 UTC
Barune Darkor wrote:
Havent seen this mentioned yet. What about the cost of fighters now that we need twice as many if them as before? Are their material costs going to be reduced?

Lights and heavys will carry over but what about bpos for the new fighter classes prior to the changes?


The lights cost about 3 mil each with 0/0 for t1

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Gary Webb
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#157 - 2016-04-02 17:57:18 UTC
Please add a hotkey for all fighters to attack one target. if there is, i couldnt find it/it isnt working on SISI. Secondly, i really hope there is an icon that will indiciate which squadron is attacking what target. Again, on sisi it wasnt there which made things very confusing.
Lastly, the cooldown cycles for the fighter modules is just bad all around. please remove it. or make it shorter or give us back the ability to rep fighters. I can understand the cooldown on the rocket volleys but the MWD?!? that needs to go. Anyone else in agreement with me here?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#158 - 2016-04-02 18:05:19 UTC
Gary Webb wrote:
Please add a hotkey for all fighters to attack one target. if there is, i couldnt find it/it isnt working on SISI. Secondly, i really hope there is an icon that will indiciate which squadron is attacking what target. Again, on sisi it wasnt there which made things very confusing.
Lastly, the cooldown cycles for the fighter modules is just bad all around. please remove it. or make it shorter or give us back the ability to rep fighters. I can understand the cooldown on the rocket volleys but the MWD?!? that needs to go. Anyone else in agreement with me here?


Try f1

There is a red line and a number fir the group

Mobility is already an issue and the missile salvos don't have a cool down just a cycle time like any mod


And the cool down is just to long on the fighters but it does not need to be eliminated

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#159 - 2016-04-02 18:20:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
Why the variation in fighter hangar size between carriers? It feels like it penalizes / buffs ships without any relation to their tank or stats.

How do you justify the fact that shield carriers get relatively low total shield values compared to armor tanked carriers, despite having no option to fit shield-slave sets? This capital and supercapital rebalance was the opportunity to change the meta, but I guess we'll keep seeing only armor due to the absurd amount of EHP lost if using shields.

(Not the mention the remote rep values that even more heavily favor armor wrecking balls)

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Anhenka
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#160 - 2016-04-02 18:32:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Anhenka
Altrue wrote:
Why the variation in fighter hangar size between carriers? It feels like it penalizes / buffs ships without any relation to their tank or stats.

How do you justify the fact that shield carriers get relatively low total shield values compared to armor tanked carriers, despite having no option to fit shield-slave sets? This capital and supercapital rebalance was the opportunity to change the meta, but I guess we'll keep seeing only armor due to the absurd amount of EHP lost if using shields.

(Not the mention the remote rep values that even more heavily favor armor wrecking balls)


Last I heard shield supercaps were better in almost every way. Higher EHP, able to fit an entire rack of primary tank without sacrificing damage mods, more mobile. Even with a full slave set in a Aeon still has less EHP than a Wyvern, and a much lower burst tank, if both are using 2 drone damage amps. Without Slaves they only have around 2/3 the EHP of one.

Did this change in the upcoming patch so that armor and shield caps and supers have roughly the same EHP without implants? Or are you just spouting nonsense?