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[Citadels] Carriers

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Gevlin
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#221 - 2016-04-05 17:51:07 UTC
Would be interesting to have fighters with an entosis link - to sorta mirror the drones used in Valkyrie .

Someday I will have the time to play. For now it is mining afk in High sec. In Cheap ships
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#222 - 2016-04-05 19:27:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
What about dropping the damage bonus on the thanny and simply adding a fourth fighter tube?
HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
#223 - 2016-04-05 22:32:28 UTC
Will Etosis Links cylcle 5 times longer (as mentioned in the Titan thread) or will there be no penalty?
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#224 - 2016-04-05 23:16:55 UTC
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:
The devs are working hard to get all the modules and mechanics working. Anything related to how much better this is from that - is a game balance question. Those get fixed in quick patches following the expansion. I've no doubt that on day 1 some module or mechanic will be underpowered and another OP. It's been a long time since CCP has made SO MANY changes to the game at once. Lots of new combinations to try out. Very exciting.

The real problem here is - Stuff isn't working AT ALL not that it is OP or under powered.

Modules we are supposed to be testing aren't available or just don't work when fitted.

Morrigan LeSante; Yes, yes they did but do please tell me how we are supposed to test mechanics with modules that either aren't there or just don't work, when skills aren't applied and especially - When you can't get ant input from devs.

Submitting bug reports or tickets - It takes them 3 to 4 WEEKS to acknowledge a ticket - Why bother.
Also, I don't think it is a bug when shield modules use up to triple the cpu of armor mods yet shield ships have less cpu - That's just poor game design. The capital game has always been about armor superiority, why look at that now just because it would be the perfect time to address it.

Trying to fit some of these new ships leaves me feeling a bit disgusted because fitting requirements have been increased substantially but the PG and CPU has not changed to encompass the extra needed. - Or is it some of these new ships were designed with a certain meta in mind and screw anything else.Yet it is way too late to be trying to get any answers or input from Devs on these things - They seem to be too busy preparing for fanfest to worry about responding to issues posed by players.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
#225 - 2016-04-05 23:32:07 UTC
HandelsPharmi wrote:
Will Etosis Links cylcle 5 times longer (as mentioned in the Titan thread) or will there be no penalty?

Reading the descriptions, nothing changes as far as capitals / supers and entosis links - The penalty stays as is.

Gevlin; I agree, entosis fighters could be interesting but with the drawback that those are the only fighters the entosising ship can launch. While entosis fighters are deployed all other launch tubes are locked.

My opinions are mine.

  If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - - Just don't bother Hating - I don't care

It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#226 - 2016-04-06 01:41:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
so did ccp think carriers did to much damage the fighter DPS just got nerfed or am i missing something??

oh its to compensate for the damage skill applying :/

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#227 - 2016-04-06 01:49:05 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
so did ccp think carriers did to much damage the fighter DPS just got nerfed or am i missing something??


Heavy fighters at least can really crank out the deeps. Several thousand damage per hit. Are they as good as current fighters? No not really if you want to talk about ratting or whatever but they're quite effective in pvp where they can smush subcaps quite quickly. Do not expect to see these fighters being especially well balanced for a good year or two though.

Many might not know this but one of the focus group members outright quit the team on the basis of the removal of afk carrier ratting, citing it as an essential component of EVE pve because pve is so horribly bad and that it isn't a problem because going afk carries its own risks and darwins law kicks in eventually. Apparently the new fighter mechanics turn money making back in to a second job and was deemed unacceptable.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#228 - 2016-04-06 01:50:37 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
so did ccp think carriers did to much damage the fighter DPS just got nerfed or am i missing something??


Heavy fighters at least can really crank out the deeps. Several thousand damage per hit. Are they as good as current fighters? No not really if you want to talk about ratting or whatever but they're quite effective in pvp where they can smush subcaps quite quickly. Do not expect to see these fighters being especially well balanced for a good year or two though.

Many might not know this but one of the focus group members outright quit the team on the basis of the removal of afk carrier ratting, citing it as an essential component of EVE pve because pve is so horribly bad and that it isn't a problem because going afk carries its own risks and darwins law kicks in eventually. Apparently the new fighter mechanics turn money making back in to a second job and was deemed unacceptable.



... carriers cant use heavy fighters

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#229 - 2016-04-06 02:03:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
so did ccp think carriers did to much damage the fighter DPS just got nerfed or am i missing something??

oh its to compensate for the damage skill applying :/

Yep, carriers went from decent on paper and crap in reality to crap on paper and crap in reality.

Now on paper they have just slightly more DPS than carriers have now, with half of it in an ability that needs to be reloaded and manually reactivated every shot.
It's also worth mentioning that the way they did that ability actively punishes anyone with a high ping/slow reaction time by making it harder for them to activate it again without missing more than one server tick.
Marranar Amatin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#230 - 2016-04-06 06:44:42 UTC
Carriers can do some decent dps, because the drone damage amplifiers still do not have a stacking penalty.

Since it is still not fixed, and CCP is ignoring all complaints about carriers having not enough damage, maybe this is on purpose to allow carriers decent dps, if you are willing to sacrifice tank.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#231 - 2016-04-06 06:50:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Marranar Amatin wrote:
Carriers can do some decent dps, because the drone damage amplifiers still do not have a stacking penalty.

Since it is still not fixed, and CCP is ignoring all complaints about carriers having not enough damage, maybe this is on purpose to allow carriers decent dps, if you are willing to sacrifice tank.


Except the Chimera and archon do not have the layout to benefit from this

For their role the thanny and nid get more than enough tank from shields

If this is how ccp is planning to give carriers more dps the Chimera and archon will be good for nothing other than over tanked space bricks

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Anthar Thebess
#232 - 2016-04-06 09:07:03 UTC
Bricks, scale well.
The more bricks you have the more things you can do, and stuff is more resistant to external force.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman
CK-0FF
Intergalactic Space Hobos
#233 - 2016-04-06 09:17:04 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Bricks, scale well.
The more bricks you have the more things you can do, and stuff is more resistant to external force.

Exactly. There's a reason T3 fleets are so popular, and the reason isn't that they have amazing DPS.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#234 - 2016-04-06 09:55:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Bricks, scale well.
The more bricks you have the more things you can do, and stuff is more resistant to external force.

Exactly. There's a reason T3 fleets are so popular, and the reason isn't that they have amazing DPS.


But dreads with HAW fill that role better


And T3 fill it even better than that

Is not about will they have a use is about how many other things will out preform them if what ever use they have

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Anthar Thebess
#235 - 2016-04-06 10:00:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Bricks, scale well.
The more bricks you have the more things you can do, and stuff is more resistant to external force.

Exactly. There's a reason T3 fleets are so popular, and the reason isn't that they have amazing DPS.


But dreads with HAW fill that role better


And T3 fill it even better than that

Is not about will they have a use is about how many other things will out preform them if what ever use they have


Fighters can project fighters to frew thousand kilometers, dreads cannot shoot so far.
More EHP, better resist profile give you more time when something go wrong.
Dreads must be close to each other to project your damage to enemy, carriers can be spread on the grid 200km away from each other.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Zenafar
#236 - 2016-04-06 10:20:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Zenafar
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Bricks, scale well.
The more bricks you have the more things you can do, and stuff is more resistant to external force.

Exactly. There's a reason T3 fleets are so popular, and the reason isn't that they have amazing DPS.


But dreads with HAW fill that role better


And T3 fill it even better than that

Is not about will they have a use is about how many other things will out preform them if what ever use they have


Fighters can project fighters to frew thousand kilometers, dreads cannot shoot so far.
More EHP, better resist profile give you more time when something go wrong.
Dreads must be close to each other to project your damage to enemy, carriers can be spread on the grid 200km away from each other.


yeah and feed enemy with cheap fighters

edit: But i'ts good that carriers have big fighter bay so they can launch another group of fighters and after 5 mins (or so) fighters will finally reach enemy and feed them more
Lugh Crow-Slave
#237 - 2016-04-06 10:40:37 UTC
Zenafar wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Bricks, scale well.
The more bricks you have the more things you can do, and stuff is more resistant to external force.

Exactly. There's a reason T3 fleets are so popular, and the reason isn't that they have amazing DPS.


But dreads with HAW fill that role better


And T3 fill it even better than that

Is not about will they have a use is about how many other things will out preform them if what ever use they have


Fighters can project fighters to frew thousand kilometers, dreads cannot shoot so far.
More EHP, better resist profile give you more time when something go wrong.
Dreads must be close to each other to project your damage to enemy, carriers can be spread on the grid 200km away from each other.


yeah and feed enemy with cheap fighters

edit: But i'ts good that carriers have big fighter bay so they can launch another group of fighters and after 5 mins (or so) fighters will finally reach enemy and feed them more


Lol yeah just because you have the lock range doesn't mean you have the effective range

The range of a nid is generously 100km and when that may sound like a lot is not 100km from your ship but your fighter so of your enemy is on two sides of you you have to cut that in half.


Anyway my original comment was the unballanced nature of leaving DDA woth no stacking penalty of that status the case even without the hull bonuse one the thany and nid the Chimera and archon will be dwarfed and unable to stay competitive

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Zenafar
#238 - 2016-04-06 11:02:47 UTC
Yep. I thought ccp will fix Drone interfacing and add stacking for DDA, so it's + and - dps. And then we'll see what carriers can do. But something went wrong :)
Lugh Crow-Slave
#239 - 2016-04-06 11:16:10 UTC
Zenafar wrote:
Yep. I thought ccp will fix Drone interfacing and add stacking for DDA, so it's + and - dps. And then we'll see what carriers can do. But something went wrong :)


Yeah they fixed done interfacing then lowered total fighter damage

Odds ate they will add the penalty and all hope of carriers doing damage dies

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#240 - 2016-04-06 13:25:06 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Miss 'Assassination' Cayman wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Bricks, scale well.
The more bricks you have the more things you can do, and stuff is more resistant to external force.

Exactly. There's a reason T3 fleets are so popular, and the reason isn't that they have amazing DPS.


But dreads with HAW fill that role better


And T3 fill it even better than that

Is not about will they have a use is about how many other things will out preform them if what ever use they have


Fighters can project fighters to frew thousand kilometers, dreads cannot shoot so far.
More EHP, better resist profile give you more time when something go wrong.
Dreads must be close to each other to project your damage to enemy, carriers can be spread on the grid 200km away from each other.



No one and I mean no one is going to use carriers at extreme range. The fighters speed prevents it being remotely viable as well as the fact on grid probing is STILL not nerfed.


Drop them point blank is all that will happen.