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I really don't like that. You should at least give a choice to the user of the service whereas they want to pay tax with isk or with ore.
Basically new player who mine to get isk, won't necessary have enough isk to reprocess it.


You should allow this to be taxed. If a citadel owner wish to open this service to blues or even neutral, he definitely should be able to get paid in return (isk or ore.).

This is still going on with a near 100% agreement that this is a bad idea.

Now a little analogy.

CCP Boss has given instruction to Build a group of shiny new Stables, but is unsure whether the Mules will go and use them, rather than continue to lie under the tarpaulin and frame, up to their ankles in dust, and hair, that they have always used. He knows mules are stubborn, but he has faith in his people.

He sees this as a great way of making the mules happy and more active. He is proud to have designed such a wonderful home for them, He asks his builders to "make it happen"

One CCP builder decides to lead most of the mules to the new stables, with a nice carrot, the mules get there, decide they like it and move in happily.

One CCP builder decides, "damn the mules, they will do what they are told", and after a while notices the lack of mules in his stable.
He goes to the tarpaulin site, throws water and sewage onto the soil, turning it to mud.
He rips the tarpaulin so the rain comes in. Turning his back on the mules, he goes back to the stable thinking "that'll teach them, now they'll move!" and waits for the mules to arrive.

After a while, and still no mules have appeared, he goes to the old site and he notices a complete absence of mules, he looks everywhere, and finally sees them disappearing over the horizon never to be seen again.


Which do you want to be, CCP rational, or CCP out of a job?

Well POS will not have a market, Or clone bays, so they should be unaffected.
Eventually for pos users, If the citadels have better features, most will move to citadels, unless CCP try to force people out then they will either stay Just to spite CCP, or do something else.

Seems to be a major clusterfrack, If the new citadels are so undesirable that people need to be forced to use them.

I thought everyone liked them and were looking forward to them, but If they need to force us, then there must be something horrible about them I hadn't realised.

I'll wait now before building one.

well for one it wil not be on your overview if you cant dock

A good question Core and I have no idea myself: although, I am guessing they will remain but have higher trading taxes in them for the markets. You wont be able to do contracts in citadels and it would really screw things in 0.0 for doctrine fits if they were gone. I tbh think citadels should be introduced in 3 phases. phase 1 being null sec. phase 2 being low and wh. phase 3 high sec. I also agree that Jump clones actually should cost a lot more to change clones based on the skill points a player has. An example would be 1mil isk for every 2mil skill points. This will make it harder for 0.0 alliances to coordinate large scale attacks and defenses of their citadels in far away regions at the same time punishing everyone else too.....

Again I like the citadel idea but as it stands it just a Turd. Seems a few like to polish the turd but are missing the point its a stinky turd that most want to avoid. You cant polish the stink.

because thats the benefit of larger citadels and citadels in less safe space the rigs lower the npc tax.

How is it a benefit if it won't even be used?

CCP needs to work out a system of benefits that fit in with the Lore, in a way that's meaningful beyond "And so we say that suddenly you have to pay more taxes. "~waves hand mystically~.

Here, some help to get you thinking along the right lines:

FACTION POLICE NO LONGER SPAWN ON GRID WITH A PLAYER CITADEL.

Boom! Lookee here boys, an honest to god advantage that doesn't involve shafting players for playing a certain way.

What does this encourage: Lowsec pirates can come to 'Citadelland' with their ill-gotten gains and trade it safely, because the faction police won't go near the Citadel. You'll get more PvP in space, because negative faction standing won't be a punishment, and you can roll it into you new-fangled Bounty Hunting/Criminal Smuggling Enterprise something or other expansion.

Drackarn over at SCAS talks about what he'd like to see as a 'hive of scum and villainy' here: http://sandciderandspaceships.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/citadel-shanty-towns.html
Wouldn't this be a good first step.

You could even nerf Concord on this grid, or something equally interesting. Wouldn't it be cool if Code didn't warp around, but had a 'Pirate' cove to hide out in. You could hide it in deepspace away from stations.

I agree that keeping it at the same percentage for both the listing and modifying fee might be excessive. I did that to keep it simple. The numbers can change; I just want to see order modification actually have a fee attached to it. Even if both were at 1%, this change would still be less punishing than the 5-6% fee that was proposed.

I disagree that this will backfire with regard to bots. Right now most traders list their sell orders just under the lowest current market order (aka .01 ISK wars) even when it is heavily overpriced. This works because you can modify your order as often as needed for free as the price slowly corrects itself. If broker's fees actually applied when modifying sell orders, you would have to minimize the number of order modifications by listing a much more competitive price to avoid too many from undercutting you. The market should behave more efficiently as overpriced orders would be undercut quickly and by significant amounts unless there is a massive shortage. Basically, fees on order modifications would reward those to predict the market and stick to one price rather than those who only react to the market by repeatedly changing their price (with or without bots).

I do not understand how listing a large number of small orders would give any benefit. It would be infuriating to have to buy or sell to each individual order when they are separated by non-trivial amounts of ISK. I would be tempted to list my own buy order just under the lowest of many tiny sell orders just to avoid buying from the person who dumped a ton of tiny orders on the market. Hopefully someone would notice and only have to change their order once to fill mine.

That's a very good point. Where I live there are several commonly used systems with no stations that can repair. It would be handy to go to a citadel and rep up, not to mention they could set a lower cost like nullsec stations and be attractive even in systems with repair stations.

And since then we've seen a significant decline in highsec activity which isn't being transfered to other areas of space.

If CCP wishes to keep their players subscribed to the game, punishment doesn't work. Players quit before they move out.


"No something built and ruin by players should be better than any npc alternative."

Philosophy, not best practise.