EVE General Discussion

What happened when 2 players of differing ages but the same skill encountered each other prior, or the same age and skill but one purchased a character? Unless one goes with the assumption that SP and skill were linked before skill trading, which is anything but true, we already had the issue of similar player skill with dissimilar SP.

The dynamic may have been altered a bit but the result is the same.

Glad to hear it, Mr. Financial Man, keep feeding that fire

I am all-rounder. I PVP in heavy tackle, logi and even FC time to time. I dive into worm holes, I rat, mine, PI and station trade.
Yet people sling "care bear" at me.

I am starting to dismiss people that toss that out so easily. It is like some homophobic terms, it is used as a derogatory term to say, "I am cool and they are not" Well you aren't.
If you have to resort to name calling because you can't put together a coherent counter argument then you are definitely not "cool"

You must be pretty blind then.

for a vet it seems you don't know what a carebear means, or maybe we have a different definition of what a carebear is, whatever.

anyway, i do alot of industrial stuff too. i do PI, datacore farming, research, manufacture and sell.

same with pvp, people suddenly having much more SP than me will be minimal significance and impact to me.

As "yet another" 13 year veteran of eve, I must say that the skill point injectors and the people using them have had zero impact on my game, and that's all that's important to me.

You can post your rants for and against, but its like labour and conservative. Both sides feel they have the right of it, and neither side are able to change their viewpoints.

I use the yard stick of "how will it affect my gameplay". A bit egocentric I know, but hey

This comes all down to word games it seams.

There is NO game where you can buy player skill, you can always just purchase an advantage.

Purchasing player skill is obviously not possible, but I am almost certain now that if it could be sold CCP would make a plan right now to market it in the New Eden store.

So there is either no pay2win game at all, because you all take the term just literally and don't realize what it really means. Or you understand what people mean with the word (congratulations, you are now actually able to talk about it!) and realize that EVE fits the definition of the word and is even one of the worst games out there when it comes to purchasing advantages for money.

What SP trading actually did:
It took one of the best things EVE had, a grind free character progression system and mutated it into a slow ticking paywall like it is used in every other pay2win games. That is just horrible, I hate it that they have done this to this game.

If CCP is so greedy why didn't they sell SPs instead of skill extractors? They can create them out of thin air for the price of a few additional bytes to store. Wich the actual mechanic they have to hope that players buy and use them.

Old chars have maxed out all the important!!! skills so even if you fully max out a char some obscure science skill will not help you in a firefight. In other games you max out the one and only important thing: combat efficiency for your class! Eve is much more diverse then other games so maxing out in one area will not give you any boost in another. Maxing out autocannons will do **** if you are in a missle boat. So you are either competent enough to pinpoint the important support skills for your playing style then you will relatively easy max them out and no amount of money will make any difference from there on. Or is someone selling Gunnery VI?
Before there was no way for noobs to catch up to, but not overshot, the vets: There is one now! But you can't get any skill higher then V.

Last point: Who is selling SP when they are so precious and why? Everybody is whinning about the buyers but without someone to sell SP for ISK, which you can make easy enough ingame, there wouldn't be any SI trade.

Third: old chars should sit on an ISK heap bigger then Smaugs so why don't you buy SIs from your saved up ISK, earned ingame, if you really want them and you think you need them to stay competitive?

In the end I really would like to see a statistic how many SIs are used to booster alts or respec old chars. May guess would be that most SIs will be used this way to instabuild a hauler/PI/industy alt.

The ones who are really busted are noobs like me which simply don't have the overall SP to max out anything and will have to wait for it. But the whining comes from vets with 200 maxed out ships that can't fly ship 201 perfectly.

This has been discussed so many times, i is not even funny anymore. There are two definitions running around. 1) pay2win is paying for an advantage. 2) pay2win is paying for an advantage you could not get without paying. People of the two groups will never agree upon if EVE is pay2win for obvious reasons. Claiming that people who use definition 2, has not understood what definition 1 means, is just nonsensical. You have not understood, that they understand your definition, but they don't accept your definition.

As such this kind of discussion is futile. I do not understand your attitude towards people with another opinion though. I would be carefull with writing like you do, when your own understanding of what they mean is wrong.


Any chinese free2play or zynga game disagree with you, as they are true pay2win for both definiton 1 and 2. EVE is only pay2win when using definition 1. So this model is not the most horrible. The arguments why this SP trading advantage is not really relevant on tranquility have been mentioned too many times to repeat. Don't forget also they SP injectors are very easily obtainable by in game isk grinding. So your assumption that this advantage is only for those who pay RL money is wrong.

What do you want: the fun of climbing the mountain and the knowledge that you bested it or just the view from the top? Nobody can buy the fun of climbing and your skill so in the end it's the way how you look at it: are you in for the fun or for the view?

Doing it the "hard" way earns you more then just SPs. What are you more proud of: to achieve something that you have to struggle for or something that gets handed to you? Most players that build their chars with SI will leave soon, because the get the victory handed so it's not really something to be proud of and the game is boring if you get everything without effort.

In the end everybody has to ask himself whats the fun in EVE: the way or the goal.

Even bevor the SI anyone could buy plex, a leveled char and a capital. Is there any difference between char bought with real money and a build one with real money?

That's exactly the reason why I wouldn't buy an SI for my main even if it would give me a huge boost. Maybe later for an alt to easily give him some useful skills quickly but even that I would do with ISK earned ingame