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Worries about the skill injectors, and the future of the game.

First post
Author
Pandora Bokks
Pangalactic Frontline Supply Agency
Externa Group
#361 - 2016-02-25 18:54:04 UTC
Nat Silverguard wrote:


you are one of those clueless people that think time =/= money eh?



This is a GAME. If playing a game means opportunity cost for you, than you must be either living on social welfare, be a very low salary worker or a kid with no income.




Poddington Bare
Infinite Destruction.
Unspoken Alliance.
#362 - 2016-02-25 19:40:24 UTC
Pandora Bokks wrote:
you must be either living on social welfare, be a very low salary worker or a kid with no income.


Maybe they are? So what if they are?
Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
#363 - 2016-02-25 20:20:21 UTC
Pandora Bokks wrote:
Nat Silverguard wrote:


you are one of those clueless people that think time =/= money eh?



This is a GAME. If playing a game means opportunity cost for you, than you must be either living on social welfare, be a very low salary worker or a kid with no income.






and that is relevant because?

Just Add Water

sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#364 - 2016-02-25 23:48:08 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
And still people are ignoring the other 75% of my post.

I'm not sure whether i should have less faith in CCP or the community at this point :/


Just a tip, perhaps you don't call your post " worries about the skill injectors, and the future of the game" next time. Most people will not read the very long OP, and only read the title before jumping in head first. The 75% of your post are covered by the vague "the future of the game". Most people probably read it as a pure skill injector complain thread, and just answer the last few posts in thr OP. I will see if I find the energy tomorrow to go into some of the other topics you mentioned.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

Dyllan Ma'tar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#365 - 2016-02-26 01:21:10 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
And still people are ignoring the other 75% of my post.

I'm not sure whether i should have less faith in CCP or the community at this point :/


It's a wall of text monster whose argument mostly hinges on those injectors. You really should have expected this.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#366 - 2016-02-26 02:41:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Reiisha wrote:
And still people are ignoring the other 75% of my post.

I'm not sure whether i should have less faith in CCP or the community at this point :/

You should have less faith in both at this point.

CCP is either desperate for income, lost vision of what Eve was and succumbed to sheer greed, or ran out of ways to improve the game and decided to milk the game as much as possible before selling it off to another game publisher.

The player base that are in agreement with this are mostly the younger generation (14-24 year olds) who have no patience for char development and just want to pew pew stuff with their pals to show off their so-called in game skills. It's a complete waste of time trying to convince these type of players the flaws of SP trading and will troll you endlessly.

The player base that are against SP trading are mostly long-time Eve players that stuck with Eve for years through thick and thin. They've endured the harsh and gentle evolutionary changes Eve has made throughout the years through adaptation. These adaptations were possible because CCP kept the core essential mechanics of the game intact......until now. Now the loyal traditional Eve players are trying to adjust to the cruelest change ever made to Eve in it's history. Some will leave after finally realizing the game is no longer worth their time and others will stick around stomaching the nauseating effects of SP trading just to be able to continue interacting with their long-time friends they've develop while playing this game for years. But once another game appears that can now complete with this watered down version of Eve where these players can continue their relationships with one another, then they too will leave this game. When this happens then this game populace will be mostly comprised of scrubs and the gung-ho type players. And when these players discover that they're the only ones left playing this game then they'll hop on the next pay2win bandwagon and desert Eve in mass.

So in conclusion, this game no longer have a future so sadly there's no point to this thread, it's already too late. As others have stated "Pandora's Box has been opened" so the only choice you now have is to either to wait until the catastrophic end to happen or save your time and leave now for greener pastures.
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#367 - 2016-02-26 07:47:36 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
And still people are ignoring the other 75% of my post.

I'm not sure whether i should have less faith in CCP or the community at this point :/


Plan: repost blocks 2 and 3 at one-week intervals?

A signature :o

sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#368 - 2016-02-26 07:53:44 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Daniela Doran wrote:

The player base that are in agreement with this are mostly the younger generation (14-24 year olds) who have no patience for char development and just want to pew pew stuff with their pals to show off their so-called in game skills. It's a complete waste of time trying to convince these type of players the flaws of SP trading and will troll you endlessly.


You have no idea, how old people are. This is just a BS statement. It also does not correlate with all the other claims in this thread that it is the vets who inject and hence this change does not benifit the newbies. It does also seem unlikely considering the general age distribution of EVEI see no reason where there should not be people agreeing from each age group.
Daniela Doran wrote:
.
The player base that are against SP trading are mostly long-time Eve players that stuck with Eve for years through thick and thin. They've endured the harsh and gentle evolutionary changes Eve has made throughout the years through adaptation. These adaptations were possible because CCP kept the core essential mechanics of the game intact......until now. Now the loyal traditional Eve players are trying to adjust to the cruelest change ever made to Eve in it's history.

No the people against are people who have misunderstood the importance of SP. The biggest majority seems to be neutral, with a tendency toward "I would probably not have implemented it though."
Daniela Doran wrote:

So in conclusion, this game no longer have a future so sadly there's no point to this thread, it's already too late. As others have stated "Pandora's Box has been opened" so the only choice you now have is to either to wait until the catastrophic end to happen or save your time and leave now for greener pastures.

Nice try. You are pissed about a change you cannot adapt to, and hope to convince others to leave to prove your point. Classy. Why do you not just let the people who can stomach this do it? Deep inside you know most people do not care about the SP changes now that they have seen it will not change EVE that much. How many do you see, who are as upset as you? very few. Most have adapted.

Btw. I do not understand your choice to hang around and spread discontent. I would just have quit, if I had your opinion. This malignancy behind your want to punish EVE, seems very childish and out of proportion tbh. I will never understand this want for revenege over something so minor.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#369 - 2016-02-26 09:26:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
sero Hita wrote:

You have no idea, how old people are. This is just a BS statement. It also does not correlate with all the other claims in this thread that it is the vets who inject and hence this change does not benifit the newbies. It does also seem unlikely considering the general age distribution of EVEI see no reason where there should not be people agreeing from each age group.

True, it was just my own speculation judging from the responses in threads like these. And I'm pretty good at estimating a persons age, especially men based on the maturity level of their post.
sero Hita wrote:

No the people against are people who have misunderstood the importance of SP. The biggest majority seems to be neutral, with a tendency toward "I would probably not have implemented it though."

Probably because you're either not paying enough attention to or are subconsciously ignoring those that are clearly posting their disapproval of this SP trading feature but they're not quite willing to quit this game because of friends, connections,etc.... so they've decided to keep a" we will see what happens stance".
sero Hita wrote:

Nice try. You are pissed about a change you cannot adapt to, and hope to convince others to leave to prove your point. Classy. Why do you not just let the people who can stomach this do it? Deep inside you know most people do not care about the SP changes now that they have seen it will not change EVE that much. How many do you see, who are as upset as you? very few.

Wrong again, I'm pissed because CCP has betrayed their loyal player base about not implementing a feature that went against their principles then lied about their true intentions saying "it's to help new players to get involve in the game faster". Instead of telling the truth saying we are in dire need of funds at the moment because we've miscalculated, squandered funds and are currently at a lost as to what to do about Eve at this time (this is just an example btw).
sero Hita wrote:
Most have adapted!

This is in your own imagination. How the hell do you know who this crowd is and that they've already adapted?? How can they possibly adapt to new mechanic feature of this magnitude in only 3 weeks when the after effects are still dormant. I'll give you a clue....the damaging effects of SP trading cannot be fully realized yet and probably never be realized by players like you who lack foresight. I'm speaking long-term (12-18 months from now) because unlike a lot of posters here in this thread, I have pretty decent foresight and have seen this pattern repeated before in games like City of Heroes and WoW.
Horiz Rin
Homebase69
#370 - 2016-02-26 11:43:36 UTC
Didn't sound like a rant - sounded well thought out, well expressed and well argued.

I especially agree with the idea that the slow build up of skills and the planning required creates a level of involvement and attachment to a character that can now be bypassed



In fact, I'm just going to quote myself from the skill injector discussion thread.


Quote:
Getting rid of unused SP to trade in for cherry picked skills smacks of pandering to players immediate gratification - and with immediate gratification you lose both the time, and the emotional investment in the game, and with nothing invested, where's the attachment?

From the bazaar you get the good and the bad, and it's a trade off - you weigh up if the things you want against those you don't - and like most of the best parts of EVE, its a compromise that takes thinking about.

I'm a fairly new player, I already have skills I wish I hadn't trained - but training them meant I had time to learn, and time to anticipate and look forward to things I wanted to do - it kept me interested ! If I could pay to get what I wanted...... I'd probably have tried everything in a few months, not bothered to learn any of the games subtleties, and been gone by now.
sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#371 - 2016-02-26 11:46:08 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Daniela Doran wrote:

This is in your own imagination. How the hell do you know who this crowd is and that they've already adapted?? How can they possibly adapt to new mechanic feature of this magnitude in only 3 weeks when the after effects are still dormant. I'll give you a clue....the damaging effects of SP trading cannot be fully realized yet and probably never be realized by players like you who lack foresight. I'm speaking long-term (12-18 months from now) because unlike a lot of posters here in this thread, I have pretty decent foresight and have seen this pattern repeated before in games like City of Heroes and WoW.


Unfortunately you will not be here in 12-18 months, to evaluate the effects of SP trading. So you will never know if you were right or wrong, because you have chosen in an inmature way to let the changes defeat you, even before you have seen if they will affect anything.

And tbh. the chances are just as good that you are the one lacking foresight. I have explained plenty of times, why I think the changes will not affect much in detail, so will not repeat myself here. Look at my posting history, if you are interested.

Nice to hear that you can judge the age of people from the maturity levels of their posts. Just out of curiosity how old do you estimate that Daniela Doran is? based on the heated name calling of people with other oppinions (scrubs) and other mature stuff like "it is not called EVE anymore, stop calling it EVE". My young son also renames stuff to devaluate them when he is upset, but his excuse is that doesn't know better, what is yours?

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#372 - 2016-02-26 12:07:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
sero Hita wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:

This is in your own imagination. How the hell do you know who this crowd is and that they've already adapted?? How can they possibly adapt to new mechanic feature of this magnitude in only 3 weeks when the after effects are still dormant. I'll give you a clue....the damaging effects of SP trading cannot be fully realized yet and probably never be realized by players like you who lack foresight. I'm speaking long-term (12-18 months from now) because unlike a lot of posters here in this thread, I have pretty decent foresight and have seen this pattern repeated before in games like City of Heroes and WoW.


Unfortunately you will not be here in 12-18 months, to evaluate the effects of SP trading. So you will never know if you were right or wrong, because you have chosen in an inmature way to let the changes defeat you, even before you have seen if they will affect anything.

And tbh. the chances are just as good that you are the one lacking foresight. I have explained plenty of times, why I think the changes will not affect much in detail, so will not repeat myself here. Look at my posting history, if you are interested.

Nice to hear that you can judge the age of people from the maturity levels of their posts. Just out of curiosity how old do you estimate that Daniela Doran is? based on the heated name calling of people with other oppinions (scrubs) and other mature stuff like "it is not called EVE anymore, stop calling it EVE". My young son also renames stuff to devaluate them when he is upset, but his excuse is that doesn't know better, what is yours?

Well women are known to be emotional by nature so in my case it can't be help. And I'm 29 btw and yes I still act like a kid sometimes when I'm pissed about something.

And you're right, I'll be gone in the next 4 months so I won't know nor care what has happened to this game a year from now.

I don't really play this game anymore and feel cheated because the quality of this game is not what I paid for. Getting a refund is out of the question so i'll rant away until my remaining game time ticks away then I'll vanish from this game for good.
Josef Djugashvilis
#373 - 2016-02-26 12:49:03 UTC
Daniela, it would be better not to quit.

I share your dislike of cash for skills, but quitting is not the answer.

It is better to say in the game and voice your dislike of the direction CCP seem to be heading in, i.e. monetizing as many aspects of the game they think they can get away with.

This is not a signature.

sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#374 - 2016-02-26 13:22:28 UTC  |  Edited by: sero Hita
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Daniela, it would be better not to quit.

I share your dislike of cash for skills, but quitting is not the answer.

It is better to say in the game and voice your dislike of the direction CCP seem to be heading in, i.e. monetizing as many aspects of the game they think they can get away with.


I think you are misreading the situation. Daniela seems to be done with the game for real (I.e the comments about having no fun anymore), and apparently needs to vent before leaving. It is okay to not want to play a certain game anymore. Also voting with your wallet is the only way to send a signal to CCP (be your opinion justified or not). Staying and complaining is not.

I do hope she will move on fast and find something she will enjoy more. Both as anger is not a good state to be in for a long time, and also because the whining is a little one dimensional for my taste.

"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker

Tristan Agion
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#375 - 2016-02-26 14:39:01 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
True, it was just my own speculation judging from the responses in threads like these. And I'm pretty good at estimating a persons age, especially men based on the maturity level of their post.

I'm a middle-aged family man with a PhD in theoretical physics, actively publishing as a researcher and permanently employed and teaching at a good British university (though I'm not a Brit). I head my own research group and have admin responsibility for all PhD students in my department.

Other than EVE I mainly play "grand strategy" games, like the Paradox titles, and puzzlers like Portal and Mini Metro. Where I have played fantasy MMO (and a long time ago I even was a programmer for the Duris DikuMUD), I tend to go for the cleric/druid type of "support" play.

I think that takes care of pretty much all your prejudices - I'm hardly a "pew pew kid". Yet, I fully support skill trading - except for the over the top money grab of CCP that effectively more than doubles the final price...
Nerokor
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#376 - 2016-02-26 15:45:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Nerokor
Daniela Doran wrote:



The player base that are in agreement with this are mostly the younger generation (14-24 year olds) who have no patience for char development and just want to pew pew stuff with their pals to show off their so-called in game skills. It's a complete waste of time trying to convince these type of players the flaws of SP trading and will troll you endlessly.



So where did you get that data from?
Loradan Illstari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#377 - 2016-02-26 19:04:01 UTC
"- You can't buy maxed characters."
Your one and only true argument, ironically now defeated by skill injection since you most certainly can buy a character someone else has maxed for you now.


"- You can't buy a specific character name."
I suppose this is true too, but seriously, who cares? A name is entirely what you make of it, and if people could pay to change their names, they would.

"- You can't avoid the reputation that comes with the character (corp history or lack thereof, scamming incidents). "
Yes you can. The character bizarre thrives on characters with fresh corp histories. And word of mouth in EVE about individuals is pretty **** poor unless you're really, really popular already, which none of us are in danger of being. I can't avoid a reputation a character has with only a minuscule amount of people the likes of which I will probably never, ever meet in game. Boo hoo. Reputations in EVE belong to organizations, not characters.

"- You can almost never buy a character that has exactly the skills you want."
Yes you can, because the skills you want are the skills most people want, thus they become the skills that are marketable, thus the skills people pour into the characters they want to sell. EVE has been around for long enough for character sellers to know what they're doing.

"- Most importantly, you still need to know how the game works to use that character efficiently."
Skill injectors doesn't change this aspect, so it's not an argument that's even relevant. A skill injector does not inject actual skill into your actual brain. If you didn't have it before the injector, you sure as hell won't have it after so I don't even know why you bothered stating this. If I knew how to use a skill before I bought the character with the skill, I'd still be flying that character just as good as if I had the skill before I injected it into a character without it. Both scenarios are identical in outcome. Herp derp.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#378 - 2016-02-26 19:14:55 UTC
Loradan Illstari wrote:
"- You can't buy maxed characters."
Your one and only true argument, ironically now defeated by skill injection since you most certainly can buy a character someone else has maxed for you now.


Well...if IronBank ever hits the market you could. You could even try making an offer now...provided you had the ISK or possibly some other item he might be willing to exchange the character for.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#379 - 2016-02-27 03:19:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Tristan Agion wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
True, it was just my own speculation judging from the responses in threads like these. And I'm pretty good at estimating a persons age, especially men based on the maturity level of their post.

I'm a middle-aged family man with a PhD in theoretical physics, actively publishing as a researcher and permanently employed and teaching at a good British university (though I'm not a Brit). I head my own research group and have admin responsibility for all PhD students in my department.

Other than EVE I mainly play "grand strategy" games, like the Paradox titles, and puzzlers like Portal and Mini Metro. Where I have played fantasy MMO (and a long time ago I even was a programmer for the Duris DikuMUD), I tend to go for the cleric/druid type of "support" play.

I think that takes care of pretty much all your prejudices - I'm hardly a "pew pew kid". Yet, I fully support skill trading - except for the over the top money grab of CCP that effectively more than doubles the final price...

I said the majority, not everyone. I wasn't including players like you and Sero in that analysis, I was mostly referring to the trolls I've encountered in the 2 skill trading Devblogs who always quote the same lame trolline "can I haz your stuff/SP".
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#380 - 2016-02-27 05:05:17 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Tristan Agion wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
True, it was just my own speculation judging from the responses in threads like these. And I'm pretty good at estimating a persons age, especially men based on the maturity level of their post.

I'm a middle-aged family man with a PhD in theoretical physics, actively publishing as a researcher and permanently employed and teaching at a good British university (though I'm not a Brit). I head my own research group and have admin responsibility for all PhD students in my department.

Other than EVE I mainly play "grand strategy" games, like the Paradox titles, and puzzlers like Portal and Mini Metro. Where I have played fantasy MMO (and a long time ago I even was a programmer for the Duris DikuMUD), I tend to go for the cleric/druid type of "support" play.

I think that takes care of pretty much all your prejudices - I'm hardly a "pew pew kid". Yet, I fully support skill trading - except for the over the top money grab of CCP that effectively more than doubles the final price...

I said the majority, not everyone. I wasn't including players like you and Sero in that analysis, I was mostly referring to the trolls I've encountered in the 2 skill trading Devblogs who always quote the same lame trolline "can I haz your stuff/SP".


That was your analysis? Christ.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online