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Dev blog: Reworking Capital Ships: Skills, Modules and Refitting

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jordanoontje
Quantum Star Conglomerate
#41 - 2016-02-12 15:28:48 UTC
1% warfare doesn't seem worth it at all considering the amount of high slots expecting you to fit RR and triage and cap transfer depending on race of FA and then also links :Street I rather have a bonus to logistic heavy drones other than that I love it and cannot wait to use these shiny monsters of love
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#42 - 2016-02-12 15:30:31 UTC
Nerfing combat refitting on triage seems to be a pretty big "hard cap" on them...

it's simply "If X dps greater than Y tank then die if if EHP/Sec loss is less EHP remaining divided by time in triage remaining" with no possibility of player reactions or skill to change it... I personally don't think that's a great mechanic for what is a player-skill intensive ship.
Luscius Uta
#43 - 2016-02-12 15:30:48 UTC
EvilweaselFinance wrote:
Custos Stratos wrote:
What if we already have all the Fighter skills? Do we have to skill the new skills as well or do we also get Light and Support Fighters?

you have to train the new skills for the new fighters, why would you expect anything else



taken from the dev blog:

Quote:
You will only require the Fighters skill to use Light, Support and Heavy Fighters.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.
Shalmon Aliatus
Bluestar Enterprises
The Craftsmen
#44 - 2016-02-12 15:35:06 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
A 1% role bonus to links is trash. This means 3 of 4 role bonuses are completely wasted. No one will ever use these for links when they can fly a covert nullified almost unprobable T3 for half the price and get a 10% bonus with defensive subsystems at 5. Let alone a CS with 15% bonuses.

If your aim was to get a 5% bonus, then make it a 5% role bonus, or a 1% per level of something skill bonus.


This will change when they get rid of offgrid links (which will happen at some point). But yeah, 1% bonus is lame, considering you have a capital ship.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#45 - 2016-02-12 15:38:24 UTC
lord xavier wrote:
Soldarius wrote:
A 1% role bonus to links is trash. This means 3 of 4 role bonuses are completely wasted. No one will ever use these for links when they can fly a covert nullified almost unprobable T3 for half the price and get a 10% bonus with defensive subsystems at 5. Let alone a CS with 15% bonuses.

If your aim was to get a 5% bonus, then make it a 5% role bonus, or a 1% per level of something skill bonus.


No one would ever use them while a Command Ship would overthrow it, or with a titans natural bonus ontop of CS.

The only time these would ever get used is blops drop if you dont have a CS vessel of some kind giving bonuses. Even then you are looking at one; the bonus to remote shield/armor. Because if you have to use the resist, you're in ****.


Agreed. I was using the provided stats to make a suggestion I thought was in-line with the devs' intent.

[hr]

I'm a little confused about the fighter(-bomber) skill changes.
Quote:

  • You will only require the Fighters skill to use Light, Support and Heavy Fighters.
  • The Fighter-Bombers skill will be renamed to Heavy Fighters, and give bonuses to heavy fighter squadrons. Heavy Fighter squadrons will only be launch-able by Supercarriers.

Effectively, fighter-bombers are becoming heavy fighters. The above says only the fighters skill is required to use them. Then it goes on to say the fighter-bombers skill will be renamed to heavy fighters. Does this mean the heavy fighters skill will only give an optional bonus to heavy fighters?

Also, I agree that disallowing refitting while one has a combat timer is an elegant solution to combat refitting.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#46 - 2016-02-12 15:38:54 UTC
Sakurako Kimino wrote:
TrouserDeagle wrote:
seriously though gallente ship with shield transfers, what's up with that


take a look at the thanatos it has the same.


I know, it's dumb
Natheniel
Kurupt.
Sedition.
#47 - 2016-02-12 15:39:35 UTC
The fighters need to get the same love that the force aux got. Don't **** those of us who have max fighter skills. If I had perfect carrier skills before the patch I should have them after.

"Life is as a storm, one must be prepared for the hardship and scorn. But with in this is a light, one for which we must fight. For hope is our weapon and our dreams are our shield. When fully armed we can not be felled from the field."
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#48 - 2016-02-12 15:42:31 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
lord xavier wrote:
Soldarius wrote:
A 1% role bonus to links is trash. This means 3 of 4 role bonuses are completely wasted. No one will ever use these for links when they can fly a covert nullified almost unprobable T3 for half the price and get a 10% bonus with defensive subsystems at 5. Let alone a CS with 15% bonuses.

If your aim was to get a 5% bonus, then make it a 5% role bonus, or a 1% per level of something skill bonus.


No one would ever use them while a Command Ship would overthrow it, or with a titans natural bonus ontop of CS.

The only time these would ever get used is blops drop if you dont have a CS vessel of some kind giving bonuses. Even then you are looking at one; the bonus to remote shield/armor. Because if you have to use the resist, you're in ****.


Agreed. I was using the provided stats to make a suggestion I thought was in-line with the devs' intent.

[hr]

I'm a little confused about the fighter(-bomber) skill changes.
Quote:

  • You will only require the Fighters skill to use Light, Support and Heavy Fighters.
  • The Fighter-Bombers skill will be renamed to Heavy Fighters, and give bonuses to heavy fighter squadrons. Heavy Fighter squadrons will only be launch-able by Supercarriers.

Effectively, fighter-bombers are becoming heavy fighters. The above says only the fighters skill is required to use them. Then it goes on to say the fighter-bombers skill will be renamed to heavy fighters. Does this mean the heavy fighters skill will only give an optional bonus to heavy fighters?

Also, I agree that disallowing refitting while one has a combat timer is an elegant solution to combat refitting.

Think of it like current racial drone specialization. That extra 2% bonus skill.
MuraSaki Siki
ChuangShi
Fraternity.
#49 - 2016-02-12 15:44:54 UTC
Lair Osen wrote:
Bastion Weapons Timer!!!
Will this be removed or changed?
Otherwise a Marauder in bastion will never be able to refit, even when not shooting anyone.
Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#50 - 2016-02-12 15:49:27 UTC
Quote:

COMBAT REFITTING
...


I honstly do not mind a refitting timer but I think 60 seconds is too long. 30 Seconds sounds much more resonable. I'd also go as far as argue that there should be no refitting timer on triage. Because with a refitting timer every kind of triage becomes suicide triage and that is one of the worst experiences you can have. It is not fun and frustrating to fly.

It does not matter how much you tweak hulls on FAX without refitting it is incrediably boring and frustating to fly yes you can argue but you can refit after 1 minute. Well the problem is that 1 minute you wait you are most likely already dead. Maybe 30 seconds if there absolutly has to be a refitting timer on FAX as well might just barely work. But in fights against bigger fleets you'll be dead no matter what.

Right now I fly triage because I like the refitting aspect of it is a role that requires skill and is not the usual same old F1 monkey crap. Plus you actually feel like what you do has an impact on whatever you make it or break it. Which is incrediable gradifying when you make it. No other role offers that in the game right now and I can say with absolute certainty that 60 seconds is too long no matter the stats on the hull it won't matter. In fights where refitting matters 20 seconds can make the difference between you making or breaking it. So the argument you can just stop repping for 60 seconds and then refit is not a solid one. Because at that point you are already dead.
Uppsy Daisy
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2016-02-12 15:50:21 UTC
I was against removing combat refitting, because it brings such a lot of skill and excitement to capital combat.

However, after reading this I think that I understand and agree that it needs to be removed, and that CCP will deliver on their promise to make capital combat exciting.
Lezarian
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#52 - 2016-02-12 15:56:17 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
With the EVE: Citadel expansion this Spring we will see, of course, Citadels but also a full revamp of capital ships. This includes the introduction of the new Force Auxiliary capital ships.

We now have more information about those Force Auxiliary ships available. Stats, transition from Triage Carriers to Force Auxiliaries and more.

Check out the latest dev blog from CCP Larrikin and Team Five-0 Reworking Capital Ships: Skills, Modules and Refitting.


Will there still be a refund on any trained carrier skills?

Reason I ask is cuz when you guys first said you will be refunding carrier/ tactical logi/ fax skills. I had dumped sp into carrier skills expecting a refund on the sp to more around post patch.

Would be nice if ya stuck to that little bit, im sure im not the only one who did this.
Current Habit
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2016-02-12 15:56:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Current Habit
One point against combat refitting is that it's basically only done with expensive or very ships - combat refitting in a BC vs BC fight isn't a thing.
So one can argue that pilots using combat refitting aren't committing to a specific fit but rather their ship and the additional refits they carry along with them. In most cases this means the groups using combat refitting commit considerably more assets (blinged machs, slowcats, supers) than the people they're fighting against.
In short, people using combat refitting risk fewer losses but each loss hurts more.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2016-02-12 15:58:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
1% bonus to links per level... cool Roll

I hate pointless/wasted bonuses. As you are adding new modules, add new capital sized remote assist modules (tracking links, sensor boosts) and give the carriers a bonus to that.

Just do it right first time round this time CCP, instead of having to do another balancing pass in a years time.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Hra Neuvosto
Party Cat Enterprises
#55 - 2016-02-12 16:01:35 UTC
Question: will applied ship skins be transfered to the FAX hull or reimbursed into your home station?
Rob Kaichin
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2016-02-12 16:03:09 UTC
Well I resubbed yesterday.

It seems I should've waited.
Memphis Baas
#57 - 2016-02-12 16:08:06 UTC
So the Fighters skill functions like the Drones skill, limiting you to flying 1-5? (squadrons?), and otherwise the Light, Support, and Heavy Fighters skills function like Light, Medium, Heavy Drones skills, basically unlocking the respective fighters and giving bonuses? If that's the case it makes sense, thank you.

Otherwise the fauxes will use the Carriers skill, and the Triage module, so no renaming / retraining necessary? People who currently have carriers trained will retain access to carriers and gain access to fauxes? And you're converting the ships, too, not just skills.

I think the new carrier gameplay will be much more interesting to me than the faux gameplay (which seems to be fleet command and remote repair).
The Cue
Violence is the Answer
#58 - 2016-02-12 16:14:56 UTC
So these scripted hardeners are kinda cool, but they don't do anything to really change what's being lost from triage refitting. Refitting in triage isn't about increasing tank. There's some cool stuff that gets done with refitting a shield ship to armor buffer and then to hull buffer to try and last long enough to drop out of siege/triage, but that was nothing more than a gimmick. A cool gimmick, but still just a gimmick.

The real skill involved in triage refitting, and the part that will be so seriously missed is the refitting from tank mods to cap mods. K-space triage will make great use of these new mods, and will likely not be hurt much by this change, but for wormholers, this is a huge nerf. One of the heaviest nerfs I've ever seen handed out by CCP.

The best solution would be to make Dreads, FAXs, and Marauders immune to the refitting change, but if that's not possible, make a FAX and dread only module that's an EANM when activated, and a CPR when not activated, then another that's an invuln/cap recharger. That would maintain the ability to switch tank for cap and visa versa without being overly complex.
Captain StringfellowHawk
Forsaken Reavers
#59 - 2016-02-12 16:31:15 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
A 1% role bonus to links is trash. This means 3 of 4 role bonuses are completely wasted. No one will ever use these for links when they can fly a covert nullified almost unprobable T3 for half the price and get a 10% bonus with defensive subsystems at 5. Let alone a CS with 15% bonuses.

If your aim was to get a 5% bonus, then make it a 5% role bonus, or a 1% per level of something skill bonus.


Did you forget Off-grid boosting is going to die. Links will now work within radius of ship and most likely CCP's favorite new flavor with falloff. As you drift further away from the transmitting ship the worse your boosts are as the signal degrades.

It was mentioned that Command Destroyers will work similar to Interdictors. Warp in and out Dropping boost bubbles. I can only predict Command Ships then will work similar to Heavy Interdictors. Moving around field its links active and making sure its squads are within its field. I would assume the same of T3,BC's,orca,rorqual as boosters as well. Stay within the Bubble and your ship has links, fall out of it and well. Guess who got primaried... or had their mining laser turn off :P
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#60 - 2016-02-12 16:31:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Hairpins Blueprint
Will carriers be able to reach 2k+ dps with light fighters?

And will they be able to kill frigates with light fighters?

If not, and you remove normal drones from carriers, you will kill carrier pve Sad



I don't understand way you change Bombers to heavy fighter, and don't change fighters to light fighters.
Zup with that?



+1 for the changes, looking forward to 100k + dps tank on Lif Pirate
Cap booster triage, i love it.