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[February] Force Auxiliary Skills

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fy'nite Saraki
Nomad Industries
#401 - 2016-02-11 02:46:46 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
My main carrier-dood has each carrier skill as well as fighters to V. So now, simply to have him be able to fly these new variant carriers, i am being required to 'invest' 2.2 billion isk and many more months of queue time ... just for that one character.

That really is ridiculous gouging.

Why in Hek would you completely nullify all those months of training and force all that additional expenditure?


To create artificial demand for the new 'skill trading' system, of course.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#402 - 2016-02-11 02:49:48 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
My main carrier-dood has each carrier skill as well as fighters to V. So now, simply to have him be able to fly these new variant carriers, i am being required to 'invest' 2.2 billion isk and many more months of queue time ... just for that one character.

That really is ridiculous gouging.

Why in Hek would you completely nullify all those months of training and force all that additional expenditure?


Ok so here's a point that no one is really making:

Due to the role split DPS carriers are getting additional ECM utility of some kind and presumably the FAUX Machines will get some additional utility that you didn't have as a triage pilot previously (by the time it is released).

So the logic falls apart when people are arguing about the concept of utility since both ships are going to have new and unique properties - it isn't a simple bonus split.

with the negation of pantheon/wrecking ball as a concept there's a lot more to this than people are seeing. We haven't seen pre-release ship stats yet. CCP is deliberately getting rid of the swiss army carrier and rebalancing bittervets against newbros by this change. Your carrier privilege is being checked.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#403 - 2016-02-11 03:09:41 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
Substantia Nigra wrote:
My main carrier-dood has each carrier skill as well as fighters to V. So now, simply to have him be able to fly these new variant carriers, i am being required to 'invest' 2.2 billion isk and many more months of queue time ... just for that one character.

That really is ridiculous gouging.

Why in Hek would you completely nullify all those months of training and force all that additional expenditure?


Ok so here's a point that no one is really making:

Due to the role split DPS carriers are getting additional ECM utility of some kind and presumably the FAUX Machines will get some additional utility that you didn't have as a triage pilot previously (by the time it is released).

So the logic falls apart when people are arguing about the concept of utility since both ships are going to have new and unique properties - it isn't a simple bonus split.

with the negation of pantheon/wrecking ball as a concept there's a lot more to this than people are seeing. We haven't seen pre-release ship stats yet. CCP is deliberately getting rid of the swiss army carrier and rebalancing bittervets against newbros by this change. Your carrier privilege is being checked.



all they needed to do this is nerf the rep ability of the current carrier and moved all those bonus to the triage mod. Make a new mod to use the fighter squads and without any mod the ability to use normal drones (max 5)
Justin Cody
War Firm
#404 - 2016-02-11 03:29:52 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
Substantia Nigra wrote:
My main carrier-dood has each carrier skill as well as fighters to V. So now, simply to have him be able to fly these new variant carriers, i am being required to 'invest' 2.2 billion isk and many more months of queue time ... just for that one character.

That really is ridiculous gouging.

Why in Hek would you completely nullify all those months of training and force all that additional expenditure?


Ok so here's a point that no one is really making:

Due to the role split DPS carriers are getting additional ECM utility of some kind and presumably the FAUX Machines will get some additional utility that you didn't have as a triage pilot previously (by the time it is released).

So the logic falls apart when people are arguing about the concept of utility since both ships are going to have new and unique properties - it isn't a simple bonus split.

with the negation of pantheon/wrecking ball as a concept there's a lot more to this than people are seeing. We haven't seen pre-release ship stats yet. CCP is deliberately getting rid of the swiss army carrier and rebalancing bittervets against newbros by this change. Your carrier privilege is being checked.



all they needed to do this is nerf the rep ability of the current carrier and moved all those bonus to the triage mod. Make a new mod to use the fighter squads and without any mod the ability to use normal drones (max 5)


Except no. They did need to split it. No more swiss army knife. sorry. Check your carrier privilege.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#405 - 2016-02-11 03:45:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Rift
Justin Cody wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
Substantia Nigra wrote:
My main carrier-dood has each carrier skill as well as fighters to V. So now, simply to have him be able to fly these new variant carriers, i am being required to 'invest' 2.2 billion isk and many more months of queue time ... just for that one character.

That really is ridiculous gouging.

Why in Hek would you completely nullify all those months of training and force all that additional expenditure?


Ok so here's a point that no one is really making:

Due to the role split DPS carriers are getting additional ECM utility of some kind and presumably the FAUX Machines will get some additional utility that you didn't have as a triage pilot previously (by the time it is released).

So the logic falls apart when people are arguing about the concept of utility since both ships are going to have new and unique properties - it isn't a simple bonus split.

with the negation of pantheon/wrecking ball as a concept there's a lot more to this than people are seeing. We haven't seen pre-release ship stats yet. CCP is deliberately getting rid of the swiss army carrier and rebalancing bittervets against newbros by this change. Your carrier privilege is being checked.



all they needed to do this is nerf the rep ability of the current carrier and moved all those bonus to the triage mod. Make a new mod to use the fighter squads and without any mod the ability to use normal drones (max 5)


Except no. They did need to split it. No more swiss army knife. sorry. Check your carrier privilege.


they can spit it into 2 ships that use the carrier skill book. just like all other t1 classes.
Justin Cody
War Firm
#406 - 2016-02-11 04:08:12 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
Substantia Nigra wrote:
My main carrier-dood has each carrier skill as well as fighters to V. So now, simply to have him be able to fly these new variant carriers, i am being required to 'invest' 2.2 billion isk and many more months of queue time ... just for that one character.

That really is ridiculous gouging.

Why in Hek would you completely nullify all those months of training and force all that additional expenditure?


Ok so here's a point that no one is really making:

Due to the role split DPS carriers are getting additional ECM utility of some kind and presumably the FAUX Machines will get some additional utility that you didn't have as a triage pilot previously (by the time it is released).

So the logic falls apart when people are arguing about the concept of utility since both ships are going to have new and unique properties - it isn't a simple bonus split.

with the negation of pantheon/wrecking ball as a concept there's a lot more to this than people are seeing. We haven't seen pre-release ship stats yet. CCP is deliberately getting rid of the swiss army carrier and rebalancing bittervets against newbros by this change. Your carrier privilege is being checked.



all they needed to do this is nerf the rep ability of the current carrier and moved all those bonus to the triage mod. Make a new mod to use the fighter squads and without any mod the ability to use normal drones (max 5)


Except no. They did need to split it. No more swiss army knife. sorry. Check your carrier privilege.


they can spit it into 2 ships that use the carrier skill book. just like all other t1 classes.


but it isn't a carrier any more. you don't get it. That's like saying you should use carrier book for the dreadnought.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#407 - 2016-02-11 04:23:22 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:

but it isn't a carrier any more. you don't get it. That's like saying you should use carrier book for the dreadnought.



it is a carrier. all a carrier is is a class of ship. Just like we have multiple cruiser ships and frigs (both classes have a ship that can RR) under the same skill we can have the same for carrier ships.
Arlyn Nightblade
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
#408 - 2016-02-11 04:30:41 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Mates,

We hear you! We're rethinking our Force Auxiliary skill transition plan. Please wait for the devblog for more details.


Cheers,
CCP Larrikin


I just went and got the Fax skill based on what you guys previously published... i hope that wasn't a waste now!
Very Aggressive Reacharound
State War Academy
Caldari State
#409 - 2016-02-11 04:58:06 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Justin Cody wrote:
Substantia Nigra wrote:
My main carrier-dood has each carrier skill as well as fighters to V. So now, simply to have him be able to fly these new variant carriers, i am being required to 'invest' 2.2 billion isk and many more months of queue time ... just for that one character.

That really is ridiculous gouging.

Why in Hek would you completely nullify all those months of training and force all that additional expenditure?


Ok so here's a point that no one is really making:

Due to the role split DPS carriers are getting additional ECM utility of some kind and presumably the FAUX Machines will get some additional utility that you didn't have as a triage pilot previously (by the time it is released).

So the logic falls apart when people are arguing about the concept of utility since both ships are going to have new and unique properties - it isn't a simple bonus split.

with the negation of pantheon/wrecking ball as a concept there's a lot more to this than people are seeing. We haven't seen pre-release ship stats yet. CCP is deliberately getting rid of the swiss army carrier and rebalancing bittervets against newbros by this change. Your carrier privilege is being checked.



all they needed to do this is nerf the rep ability of the current carrier and moved all those bonus to the triage mod. Make a new mod to use the fighter squads and without any mod the ability to use normal drones (max 5)


^THIS!!!!
Hiljah
Slap Fight Martial Artists
#410 - 2016-02-11 04:59:53 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hii Mates,

We're seeding the 4 Racial Force Auxiliary skills in February, along with skills for Light Fighter Squadrons and Support Fighter Squadrons.
Any character with Tactical Logistics Reconfiguration, a Carrier and Force Auxiliary skill (of the same race) injected when the citadels expansion launches, will have the racial carrier skillpoints refunded as unallocated skillpoints. These skillpoints can be reallocated instantly as the player desires.

If you start training the Force Auxiliary skill after the patch tomorrow, you can reallocate your refunded skillpoints right back into your racial carrier skill so you can fly both ships. Or spend them on anything you like!

Update to this section!
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Mates,

We hear you! We're rethinking our Force Auxiliary skill transition plan. Please wait for the devblog for more details.


Cheers,
CCP Larrikin



There'll be a dev-blog going into more details about our transition plans for Carriers, Force Auxiliaries and a bunch of other stuff, coming out later this week.


Cheers,
CCP Larrikin


Lol. This is a bigger charlie foxtrot than I thought it would be. I mean I assumed you were going to screw us out of isk AND sp, but to not even have PLANNED it is especially insulting.
So I'm not spending extra money on this game because of corporate greed, you're just incompetent, wonderful.
Very Aggressive Reacharound
State War Academy
Caldari State
#411 - 2016-02-11 05:00:01 UTC
Arlyn Nightblade wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Mates,

We hear you! We're rethinking our Force Auxiliary skill transition plan. Please wait for the devblog for more details.


Cheers,
CCP Larrikin


I just went and got the Fax skill based on what you guys previously published... i hope that wasn't a waste now!



don't worry this is ccp they defiantly do not hear us.. we apparently have to riot and unsub before they do what they should of done in the first place. Also remember it took them the whole life of this game to get frigates90% right so come back 10 years from now and caps will probably be in a good place.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#412 - 2016-02-11 05:58:32 UTC
TINFOIL! GET YOUR TINFOIL HERE! GET IT WHILE ITS FRESH FROM THE LOONY MINES!

AND FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY, FOR EVERY ROLL YOU PURCHASE, YOU GET ONE SET OF BATH SALTS, ABSOLUTELY FREE!

Disclaimer: bath salts are intended for bathing purposes
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#413 - 2016-02-11 08:23:35 UTC
Another thing I want to point out - (don't have capital ship skills, I refuse to invest in a coffin) CCP has done a total **** job with this.

First - If the player had the carrier skill injected they should have gotten the corresponding FAX skill for free. Not another 500 Million

Second - The market cost for carriers and FAX would than be 250 Million each for a total of 500 Million.

Third - Why the flock of fly squirrels do you people at CCP have to come across to ducking greedy. It is like you all are trying to squeeze every last penny out of your players. I am not asking for the game to be free, I would just like to see a company that isn't all about micro transactions and such.

- Now I just had a conversation with my alliance leadership about taxes -
My argument was basically this
What are the cost of our Alliances Sov?
This does not include SRP programs or Alliance spending goals, just the pure and simple cost of doing everyday business.

I don't know what the subscription and Plex income is for CCP or the cost of running CCP - but to me all these micro transactions with AUR, MCT etc and this new SP system (all of which are nice) is just a money grab way beyond what it needs to be. And if they are there in hope to making up production cost gaps from lack of subs, than you have your marketing all ducked up.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#414 - 2016-02-11 08:45:14 UTC
Because people that fly/use carriers actively are poor scrubs.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Little Nicky
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#415 - 2016-02-11 09:17:19 UTC
Arlyn Nightblade wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Mates,

We hear you! We're rethinking our Force Auxiliary skill transition plan. Please wait for the devblog for more details.


Cheers,
CCP Larrikin


I just went and got the Fax skill based on what you guys previously published... i hope that wasn't a waste now!



yeah 500 mill each

each race = 2 bill

example 6 characters = 12 bill

then add ;
Light Fighters = 100 mill
support Fighter = 100 mil

like add , 1.2 bill to the total

thats just say one person.. there is allot of isk moving atm. ... Who's going to benefit ? ...

and yes, I agree with "Amarisen Gream " if you have the carrier skill you should have it injected already...
Aphatasis
Free Carpenters Union
#416 - 2016-02-11 09:46:07 UTC
Saeletra wrote:
Current Habit wrote:
It's like CCP doesn't want me to play past the capital expansion.


Certainly feels that way, yeah.


THIS!!!
Custos Stratos
Gotham City.
#417 - 2016-02-11 10:23:11 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
Substantia Nigra wrote:
My main carrier-dood has each carrier skill as well as fighters to V. So now, simply to have him be able to fly these new variant carriers, i am being required to 'invest' 2.2 billion isk and many more months of queue time ... just for that one character.

That really is ridiculous gouging.

Why in Hek would you completely nullify all those months of training and force all that additional expenditure?


Ok so here's a point that no one is really making:

Due to the role split DPS carriers are getting additional ECM utility of some kind and presumably the FAUX Machines will get some additional utility that you didn't have as a triage pilot previously (by the time it is released).

So the logic falls apart when people are arguing about the concept of utility since both ships are going to have new and unique properties - it isn't a simple bonus split.

with the negation of pantheon/wrecking ball as a concept there's a lot more to this than people are seeing. We haven't seen pre-release ship stats yet. CCP is deliberately getting rid of the swiss army carrier and rebalancing bittervets against newbros by this change. Your carrier privilege is being checked.



And it would be great if they start coming up with some infos about these EWAR abilites/changes. There was basically no further information on that in 4 months. Skills, Modules, Attributes.........
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#418 - 2016-02-11 10:42:26 UTC
Justin Cody wrote:
Substantia Nigra wrote:
My main carrier-dood has each carrier skill as well as fighters to V. So now, simply to have him be able to fly these new variant carriers, i am being required to 'invest' 2.2 billion isk and many more months of queue time ... just for that one character.

That really is ridiculous gouging.

Why in Hek would you completely nullify all those months of training and force all that additional expenditure?


Ok so here's a point that no one is really making:

Due to the role split DPS carriers are getting additional ECM utility of some kind and presumably the FAUX Machines will get some additional utility that you didn't have as a triage pilot previously (by the time it is released).


Perhaps but the ecm utility etc and all that cool stuff is from the fighters which are gated behind some heavy skills of their own - as we can see from the seeding of those new skills.

Which is completely fine, by the way, I'm just saying that it's not gated behind the hull and there's no reason a single skill won't suffice here.
Little Nicky
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#419 - 2016-02-11 12:56:06 UTC
D3N3R0TH wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Mates,

We hear you! We're rethinking our Force Auxiliary skill transition plan. Please wait for the devblog for more details.


Cheers,
CCP Larrikin


HI Larrikin,

Would it not be logical to simply make Force Aux require the racial carrier skill and tactical logistics reconfiguration ?
Then make the racial carrier skill +% to whatever ship bonuses and the tactical Logistics skill +% to whatever repping/cap bonus?

Then everyone who already has racial carrier V and Tactical logistics V are the same as they are now - and all new players dont have to train anything more than we all did?

Makes sense really..

As for the new fighter skills - same thing goes... if you have fighters V and Fighter bomber V it should be split into the new skills



Yes Sister.... You're on the money...
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#420 - 2016-02-11 12:59:32 UTC
Aurthes wrote:
Why not just convert the skill for Tactical Logistics into the FAX skill?

So, you can fly a FAX with that skill + carrier skill.

You can fly the carrier with carrier skill + fighter skill.


That wouldn't add enough extra skill points that need to be trained by vets.

Not today spaghetti.