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Auto expiring bookmarks - again

Author
Gliese Casserres
Confused Bunnies Inc
#1 - 2016-01-23 18:12:42 UTC
Lets remind CCP why we want those - again.

How to ease the pain of personal and corporation bookmark managing, and avoiding corporation bm managers to yell when the corporation bookmarks are full of expired sites, wh chains, you name it - again.

New flavor to all the previous topics over the years is as follows:


  • Bookmark an acceleration gate - suggest auto expiry of few days (as long as the site lasts)
  • Bookmark a wreck - bm lasts 2 hours
  • Bookmark an expiring deployable - bm lasts eg. 2 days (MTU)
  • Bookmark a WH - bm lasts few days
  • Bookmark your ships position in space - bm lasts indefinitely

And so on. Of course you can select your preferred time from a dropdown menu. Too convenient?

pros:
- saves database from cluttering
- saves valuable time from corporation bm management

cons:
- makes eve too easy
- more work for devs
RaSpBeRrY PlUsH
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2016-01-23 18:31:32 UTC  |  Edited by: RaSpBeRrY PlUsH
You know there is an easier way in doing this?

Allow BMs to be permanent or not. Those who have higher roles are able to make it a permanent BM; whereas those who have no roles or limited roles to manage BMs have a 2 hour limit when it expires. This would also allow those with higher roles to change BMs from being permanent to temporary or vise-versa.
Cristl
#3 - 2016-01-23 18:56:52 UTC
This idea is not only good for us, but good for CCP hamsters I presume?

There cannot be a good argument against this other than development time, which surely wouldn't be too long.
Gliese Casserres
Confused Bunnies Inc
#4 - 2016-01-23 19:02:19 UTC
RaSpBeRrY PlUsH wrote:
You know there is an easier way in doing this?

Allow BMs to be permanent or not. Those who have higher roles are able to make it a permanent BM; whereas those who have no roles or limited roles to manage BMs have a 2 hour limit when it expires. This would also allow those with higher roles to change BMs from being permanent to temporary or vise-versa.
This is actually very clever. Well done! Of course the time limit can be debated, but overall very good concept. This would of course lead to different implementation on personal and corporation levels and have someone look into corporation role coding veeeeery carefully.
Iain Cariaba
#5 - 2016-01-23 19:16:40 UTC
1. Create folders to organize bookmarks.
2. Use folders.
3. Scroll Places tab to the side and discover there's a column that shows when the bookmark was made.
4. Sort bookmarks using this column.
5. Delete all bookmarks made before whatever arbitrary time you choose.
6. Profit?

You don't need new tools, you just need to learn how to use the ones already provided properly.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#6 - 2016-01-23 19:33:59 UTC
+1

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project

Cristl
#7 - 2016-01-23 21:02:44 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
1. Create folders to organize bookmarks.
2. Use folders.
3. Scroll Places tab to the side and discover there's a column that shows when the bookmark was made.
4. Sort bookmarks using this column.
5. Delete all bookmarks made before whatever arbitrary time you choose.
6. Profit?

You don't need new tools, you just need to learn how to use the ones already provided properly.

Have you been out on the piss, or are you just not the sharpest tool in the shed?

You've just described what we all do already. The OP is suggesting a way that we all would benefit from - players, corps and CCP server hamsters.

Do you care to suggest a reason why it shouldn't be configured the way suggested in the original post? (or some similar variation)

Gliese Casserres
Confused Bunnies Inc
#8 - 2016-01-23 23:09:56 UTC
Please keep the conversation civil.

Iain Cariaba wrote:
1. Create folders to organize bookmarks.
2. Use folders.
3. Scroll Places tab to the side and discover there's a column that shows when the bookmark was made.
4. Sort bookmarks using this column.
5. Delete all bookmarks made before whatever arbitrary time you choose.
6. Profit?

You don't need new tools, you just need to learn how to use the ones already provided properly.
Ah, Iain Cariaba. I was almost worried to not have your input. Smile

What you described is how everyone manages their bookmarks from individuals, like myself, to massive 5000 player corporations. It is well known that the tools exist, but their proper use is one of several unnecessary and tedious tasks that have fallen on corporation managers. Eliminating such a tasks one by one leads to less burnouts in management and thus generates more revenue when said players don't have to take breaks from the game. That's another to the list of pros, wouldn't you think?
Arla Sarain
#9 - 2016-01-24 02:37:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Iain Cariaba wrote:

You don't need new tools, you just need to learn how to use the ones already provided properly.

I need this tool because corp bookmark count is limited and I'm not always online to delete old bookmarks and there are few people who have bookmark privileges and are unlikely to monitor which bookmarks might be old.


INB4 you come up with another half assed statement that makes this change look oblivious and uninformed of the "real way" things are usually handled.

Just move on to General Discussion already...
Iain Cariaba
#10 - 2016-01-24 07:24:31 UTC
Gliese Casserres wrote:
Please keep the conversation civil.

Iain Cariaba wrote:
1. Create folders to organize bookmarks.
2. Use folders.
3. Scroll Places tab to the side and discover there's a column that shows when the bookmark was made.
4. Sort bookmarks using this column.
5. Delete all bookmarks made before whatever arbitrary time you choose.
6. Profit?

You don't need new tools, you just need to learn how to use the ones already provided properly.
Ah, Iain Cariaba. I was almost worried to not have your input. Smile

What you described is how everyone manages their bookmarks from individuals, like myself, to massive 5000 player corporations. It is well known that the tools exist, but their proper use is one of several unnecessary and tedious tasks that have fallen on corporation managers. Eliminating such a tasks one by one leads to less burnouts in management and thus generates more revenue when said players don't have to take breaks from the game. That's another to the list of pros, wouldn't you think?

Log on, take ten seconds to clear old bookmarks.... yeah, I don't see how siuch a difficult task can lead to burn out.

Arla Sarain wrote:
I need this tool because corp bookmark count is limited and I'm not always online to delete old bookmarks and there are few people who have bookmark privileges and are unlikely to monitor which bookmarks might be old.

Your ineptitude at managing your corporation does not make a valid argument.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#11 - 2016-01-24 09:05:56 UTC
While everyone can delete their own corp bookmarks, most people do not do that because they simply forget about their created corp bookmarks and then weeks old WH locations clutter up the folder and mix with recent WH locations. The negligence and carefree attitude of players towards EVE (It's just a game and screw those around me!) make bookmark handling a strenuous task at times.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Gliese Casserres
Confused Bunnies Inc
#12 - 2016-01-24 09:38:27 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Gliese Casserres wrote:
Please keep the conversation civil.

Iain Cariaba wrote:
1. Create folders to organize bookmarks.
2. Use folders.
3. Scroll Places tab to the side and discover there's a column that shows when the bookmark was made.
4. Sort bookmarks using this column.
5. Delete all bookmarks made before whatever arbitrary time you choose.
6. Profit?

You don't need new tools, you just need to learn how to use the ones already provided properly.
Ah, Iain Cariaba. I was almost worried to not have your input. Smile

What you described is how everyone manages their bookmarks from individuals, like myself, to massive 5000 player corporations. It is well known that the tools exist, but their proper use is one of several unnecessary and tedious tasks that have fallen on corporation managers. Eliminating such a tasks one by one leads to less burnouts in management and thus generates more revenue when said players don't have to take breaks from the game. That's another to the list of pros, wouldn't you think?

Log on, take ten seconds to clear old bookmarks.... yeah, I don't see how siuch a difficult task can lead to burn out.
Humor me, and ask your corporation (or ex) bookmark manager if he or she enjoys the task. I'm genuinely curious of the results.



What I'm really interested in is that are there any technical hurdles on CCP's side that would actively prevent implementing bookmark expiration?
Iain Cariaba
#13 - 2016-01-24 09:44:25 UTC
Gliese Casserres wrote:
Humor me, and ask your corporation (or ex) bookmark manager if he or she enjoys the task. I'm genuinely curious of the results.

I don't have to ask. I've been that guy many times over the last decade. I have no problem taking a few seconds when I log on to wipes yesterday's bookmarks.
Gliese Casserres
Confused Bunnies Inc
#14 - 2016-01-24 13:25:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Gliese Casserres
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Gliese Casserres wrote:
Humor me, and ask your corporation (or ex) bookmark manager if he or she enjoys the task. I'm genuinely curious of the results.

I don't have to ask. I've been that guy many times over the last decade. I have no problem taking a few seconds when I log on to wipes yesterday's bookmarks.
Good. You can vouch for opt-out feature. This topic and the several previous ones have expressed the public need for this feature. Stating that you don't need this feature doesn't really mean others don't since you rely only on your own experience on the matter, or do you have any real counter-arguments?
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#15 - 2016-01-24 13:39:43 UTC
I am not against the auto deleting book mark idea I am just not sure what that time limit should be.
In my specific case a book mark with a 2 hour limit would auto delete long before the next player with roles could log on due to time zone differences and work schedules. Again based on our needs the auto delete timer would have to be at least 48 hours and even longer would be better with 96 hours likely being the optimal time. However for those in a larger corp with many more players 96 hours may be to long a time leaving them with more or less the same hassles they have now. Thoughts on the time before auto deleting?
Iain Cariaba
#16 - 2016-01-24 13:49:08 UTC
Gliese Casserres wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Gliese Casserres wrote:
Humor me, and ask your corporation (or ex) bookmark manager if he or she enjoys the task. I'm genuinely curious of the results.

I don't have to ask. I've been that guy many times over the last decade. I have no problem taking a few seconds when I log on to wipes yesterday's bookmarks.
Good. You can vouch for opt-out feature. This topic and the several previous ones have expressed the public need for this feature. Stating that you don't need this feature doesn't really mean others don't since you rely only on your own experience on the matter, or do you have any real counter-arguments?

That depends. Do you have a single argument for it that doesn't boil down to either you being too lazy to use the existing method, or maybe the existing method being too difficult? Because that's really all I see here.
Arla Sarain
#17 - 2016-01-24 13:49:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Iain Cariaba wrote:


Arla Sarain wrote:
I need this tool because corp bookmark count is limited and I'm not always online to delete old bookmarks and there are few people who have bookmark privileges and are unlikely to monitor which bookmarks might be old.

Your ineptitude at managing your corporation does not make a valid argument.

My ineptitude at being online every moment a bookmark slot could be relieved does not equal to ineptitude at managing a corp. Limited bookmark privileges was not my choice, but there is also a good justification for it.

You try so hard at trashing any QoL thread posted - haven't you outgrown F&I by now? If you go to Reddit you could shiptoast with the big boys. Can even downvote posts there.
Gliese Casserres
Confused Bunnies Inc
#18 - 2016-01-24 14:58:22 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Gliese Casserres wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Gliese Casserres wrote:
Humor me, and ask your corporation (or ex) bookmark manager if he or she enjoys the task. I'm genuinely curious of the results.

I don't have to ask. I've been that guy many times over the last decade. I have no problem taking a few seconds when I log on to wipes yesterday's bookmarks.
Good. You can vouch for opt-out feature. This topic and the several previous ones have expressed the public need for this feature. Stating that you don't need this feature doesn't really mean others don't since you rely only on your own experience on the matter, or do you have any real counter-arguments?

That depends. Do you have a single argument for it that doesn't boil down to either you being too lazy to use the existing method, or maybe the existing method being too difficult? Because that's really all I see here.

My main arguments are on the opening post. The fact that you call me lazy, even though I have stated that I use current tools is just plain ad hominem to me, thus your argument is invalid.

Donnachadh wrote:
I am not against the auto deleting book mark idea I am just not sure what that time limit should be.
In my specific case a book mark with a 2 hour limit would auto delete long before the next player with roles could log on due to time zone differences and work schedules. Again based on our needs the auto delete timer would have to be at least 48 hours and even longer would be better with 96 hours likely being the optimal time. However for those in a larger corp with many more players 96 hours may be to long a time leaving them with more or less the same hassles they have now. Thoughts on the time before auto deleting?
Probably the easiest route is to allow it to be chosen when creating the bookmark, up to 96 hours, that should cover most cases. Then again one limit could be easier for the server, but it's just a guess.

Iain Cariaba
#19 - 2016-01-24 15:10:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Iain Cariaba
Arla Sarain wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:


Arla Sarain wrote:
I need this tool because corp bookmark count is limited and I'm not always online to delete old bookmarks and there are few people who have bookmark privileges and are unlikely to monitor which bookmarks might be old.

Your ineptitude at managing your corporation does not make a valid argument.

My ineptitude at being online every moment a bookmark slot could be relieved does not equal to ineptitude at managing a corp. Limited bookmark privileges was not my choice, but there is also a good justification for it.

(whine about me being a meanie snipped as irrelevant)

Still waiting for a justification for this beyond you simply not wanting to use the current tools If you're unable to be online every second of every day, then you need to learn to delegate, or maybe figure out that you've likely got a couple hundred pointless bookmarks in your corp bookmarks. Apparently you don't realize that there's a limit on corp bookmarks for a reason.

The things the corp absolutely has to have goes there, the rest is superfuous. For example, your corp as a whole doesn't need 5 tacticals for every single gate around you. The FCs do, yes, but the average f1 monkey does not. Things like this go into the FC's personal bookmarks, while leaving nice gate perches for the rest to keep them out of bubbles.

This falls under propoer corp management. It, like anything else in EvE, is a trait that can give you an advantage over the rest of the game.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#20 - 2016-01-24 15:40:37 UTC
Limited Bookmark privileges do not keep people from deleting their own useless bookmarks or requesting other people to delete their useless bookmarks, but it comes back down to what I wrote before.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

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