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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

First post First post First post
Author
Josef Djugashvilis
#1601 - 2016-01-28 11:36:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Josef Djugashvilis
Cash for skills wil not break the game, but it does seriously alter one of the underlying pillars upon which the game was founded.

This is not a signature.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1602 - 2016-01-28 11:44:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Cash for skills wil not break the game, but it does seriouly alter one of the underlying pillars upon which the game was founded.


This is one of my major concerns with this idea, it fundamentally changes the game I signed up to play. Ho-Hum, I'll just see how it all pans out and wait for CyberPunk 2077 :D (Seriously, check the trailer for that...)

Note: This isn't an I'm going to quit type post, just that I'm now looking forward to other games alongside EvE, whereas before I only really played EvE.
Memphis Baas
#1603 - 2016-01-28 12:50:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
Rain6637 wrote:
Will you explain the Aria connection to EVE in greater detail?


I don't know anything, but, right now, if they want to microtransaction anything, they have to fully code the payment system, for each thing that they want to microtransaction. They had to code the extractor so that it has full functionality in-game, in the NEX store, and through the redeeming system, to get their Aur / cash for this particular feature.

With Aria, they can just focus on coding in-game stuff, and simply flag it for Aria to bring up a payment box or subtract some Aur from your wallet. They can focus on EVE and let Aria handle the payment system with all its intricacies. They could probably get rid of the NEX store and just let the outfits and the skins exist in-game, pay-if-you-want without even exiting the game. They could let us right-click to reassign skill points, without the need for an extractor or other such external mechanic.

The decision of what to monetize is still a separate thing from Aria, and they could very easily stick to their original policies of "microtransactions only for fluff, no P2W." We're complaining against any form of microtransactions, and that's pointless because money is a strong motivator and the're going forward with it; instead, we should have a strong reaction only to clearly P2W changes. And they should stick to their policy of no P2W.

I'm curious to hear their stance on skillpoints. Did adding all these big ships make the skillpoint accumulation too much, compared to how it was initially envisioned in 2003? Are they OK with the fact that it takes 3+ years to skill up to "endgame" ships (however skewed our perception of that may be), where other MMO's only take 3 months to "max out and gear up" any single character?

As a stray thought, CCP could sell premade characters on the Character Bazaar, instead of this extractor business. 5 mil, 20 mil, 40 mil, 60 mil, 100 mil skillpoints, pre-assigned to relevant skills. Named Citizen 3241515224, with a free name change. I wonder if the "it's P2W" reaction to that would be stronger, milder, or what.
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
#1604 - 2016-01-28 13:21:57 UTC
Quote:
(...)We're complaining against any form of microtransactions, and that's pointless because money is a strong motivator and the're going forward with it; (...)

Money grabbing is a cancer of the whole gaming branch. CA is releasing new total war at april. As an addon those who pre-order will get DLC (one of the ingame faction). So game is not even released and they add DLC to it...Something that was cut out from the base and sold out as DLC...I could understand something like SKINs (actually I'm not, paying for hull painted blue is not worth it), but DLC to not released game?
CCP can't sell patches as addons, because it won't work. It would slipt game into not connected parts and they want the universe to be homogenic for all. So they have to find new ways of milking us from cash. SP selling idea is so incoherent (for whom?) and full of possible exploits that they have to find other sources.
Big expansions may be one (players will come to see what has changed), some possiblities in Aria also, like other currencies for those who don't get paid in euros (it's like 15 euros straight for all euro zone, but average income is different in every country, not to mention middle europe). If selling SP won't work they will have to change skilling system drastically.
I have no problem with vanity items, if someone is stupid enough to pay for them, it's good for CCP. Monetizing other aspects is walking on thin ice.
but maybe I'm wrong? Maybe it is what gaming community wants? They are paying they are gaining, no time for weakness. CCP is already happy with less playing but more paying. We will see I guess.

"I am tormented with an everlasting itch for things remote. I love to sail forbidden seas..." - Herman Melville

Memphis Baas
#1605 - 2016-01-28 14:37:03 UTC
Quote:
Money grabbing is a cancer of the whole gaming branch.


Trying to make money is what drives the whole industry forward; you call it a cancer but it's not.

If you feel like spending 5+ years developing a product only to give it away for free, go ahead. We'll then come to your forums and shoot your in-game monuments complaining that you've done a ****** job, and that you should "fix it" for free, because the game is free.

Feel free to rage on, but the reality of the world out there is that things are done for money, and more money often (not always) results in more things done. You're wasting effort, but whatever, go ahead.
Amanda Orion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1606 - 2016-01-28 15:12:04 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Quote:
Money grabbing is a cancer of the whole gaming branch.


Trying to make money is what drives the whole industry forward; you call it a cancer but it's not.

If you feel like spending 5+ years developing a product only to give it away for free, go ahead. We'll then come to your forums and shoot your in-game monuments complaining that you've done a ****** job, and that you should "fix it" for free, because the game is free.

Feel free to rage on, but the reality of the world out there is that things are done for money, and more money often (not always) results in more things done. You're wasting effort, but whatever, go ahead.


You have conflated "charging" which is fair and expected, with "money grabbing".

They are not giving it away, they are being paid for it already.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#1607 - 2016-01-28 15:35:09 UTC
Prices! can we has them?
Driver
Doomheim
#1608 - 2016-01-28 15:45:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Driver
.
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1609 - 2016-01-28 15:46:39 UTC
Memphis Baas wrote:
Quote:
Money grabbing is a cancer of the whole gaming branch.


Trying to make money is what drives the whole industry forward; you call it a cancer but it's not.

If you feel like spending 5+ years developing a product only to give it away for free, go ahead. We'll then come to your forums and shoot your in-game monuments complaining that you've done a ****** job, and that you should "fix it" for free, because the game is free.

Feel free to rage on, but the reality of the world out there is that things are done for money, and more money often (not always) results in more things done. You're wasting effort, but whatever, go ahead.


Inb4 "we're making enough money to make it free to play now, no more subscription fees!", and every release after that is 90% new skins

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Shova'k
The Bank Of Jita
#1610 - 2016-01-28 15:51:16 UTC
Cixi wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Shova'k wrote:
I still have yet to see any proof from all the cry babies claiming this is pay to win when it clearly is not. IT is only pay to save TIME! nothing more same thing we had with character bazaar for many years.

You poor delusioned fella. Don't you realize that in Eve, Time equates to XP gained by killing goblins and such in WoW. And now that Time is up for sale which equates to "pay2win".

Char Bazaar is a scaled down version of pay2win with drawbacks. This SP trading is removing those drawbacks making it flat out pay2win which is a huge difference that only the delusional can't seem to grasp.



Player A have 50 mil SP with which he have perfect skills in a Comet, he waited more than 2 years to get these skillpoints.

Player B have 50 mil SP with which he have perfect skills in a Comet, but he didn't wait 2 years, he bought it all on the market with his credit card.

lets say both have the exact same fit (somehow...). What advantages does player B have over player A ? none

Player A have a serious advantage because he have more experience of PvP.



i have basically pointed that out in multiple posts but most people cant comprehend common sense sadly only way buying a character or sp will give you an advantage is if you also pay an experienced player in RL money or isk to train you how to play as well but even that will be limited as experience takes time and you can buy experience least not with today's technology lol
Shova'k
The Bank Of Jita
#1611 - 2016-01-28 15:58:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Shova'k
Jeremiah Saken wrote:
Cixi wrote:

Player A have 50 mil SP with which he have perfect skills in a Comet, he waited more than 2 years to get these skillpoints.

Player B have 50 mil SP with which he have perfect skills in a Comet, but he didn't wait 2 years, he bought it all on the market with his credit card.

lets say both have the exact same fit (somehow...). What advantages does player B have over player A ? none

Player A have a serious advantage because he have more experience of PvP.

I love Player A, player B examples, here's my:
2 players, both 0 day newbros
Player A don't buy SP packet and just wait to train skills
Player B bought and currently flying T3D with T2 modules

Now they clash in PvP battle, who has advantage? Player A with propablly his first T1 frig or Player B with T3D?
I could do this whole day. When you go faster than others (SP) you are paying to be better. Nobody tell me flying raven is same thing than flying golem, flying T1 hauler than cloaky one, not to mention T3 cruisers.

There are artificial thersholds for hulls. I love the argument that it's the experience that is matter the most. Why there are thersholds then? Where's the benefit? How good would be T2 cruiser if I could fly it without high level skills from day 1?


tell that to all the kill mails on the kill boards of people with t1 guns on t1 hulls with meta 4 and some t2 gear taking down ceptors and dictors and stuff all the time i used to take out ceptors all the time as a new player with a mining alt that could barly fly rifter using a mostly t1 fit rifter.
tho your logic is flawed anyway unless you know what your doing anyway you shouldnt engage something that out classes you in the first place by your logic they should have 10 year olds fighting 25 year olds in boxing. or pit a minivan against all the specialized race cars in nascar.

flying the same ship the lower sp player with better fitting knowledge will perform better i have been their as a new player back when i was new i took out people who bought chars cause i chose to learn the game and train and pick my battles.
Shova'k
The Bank Of Jita
#1612 - 2016-01-28 16:03:50 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Shova'k wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Shova'k wrote:
I still have yet to see any proof from all the cry babies claiming this is pay to win when it clearly is not. IT is only pay to save TIME! nothing more same thing we had with character bazaar for many years.

You poor delusioned fella. Don't you realize that in Eve, Time equates to XP gained by killing goblins and such in WoW. And now that Time is up for sale which equates to "pay2win".



your trolling level is around -5 with that terrible post. pay to win by definition is when you can pay to gain a clear advantage when in eve all you can do is pay to save time and still be terrible at the game. the fact that you mentioned a computer virus as your reference is just pretty terrible WoW is nothing more then a computer virus that should be whipped from existence. also your opinion does not count as proof of a pay to win option that does not exist and will not exist with this new addition nice try tho.

@ tiddle jr - I never said buying sp was a good idea :P but it hell it gives the rest of us delicious kill mails in the end Cool

Okay fine you wanna get technical, we'll get technical. It's called pay2advance, you happy now. And guess what, it's still breaks the game in the same fashion as pay2win.

Again I see only PVP minded players having this delusion that this pay2advance feature is the same as Char Bazaar.

The difference between SP trading and char bazaar has already been explained countless time, need it be repeated again??


wrong again since you still have to learn how to play the game its not pay to advance either (still wouldnt hurt the game lol) its pay to save time nothing more nothing less. and you only save 50% of the time since you still have to learn the game gain experience at doing things and learn through failures just like every one else nice try tho.
Amanda Orion
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1613 - 2016-01-28 16:13:25 UTC
Driver wrote:

No one is putting a gun to your head and making you buy this stuff. And if you feel you need this to be able to compete any more, then that's on you.


Correcting an inaccurate statement tells you NOTHING about how I feel about how it will affect me.
So stop trying to pretend you are psychic.
Neva Second
Myst3rium Logistics and Investments
#1614 - 2016-01-28 17:13:31 UTC
Question for the Devs, lets say I buy an injector with the 500k SP's on it, inject some number less than 500k into a player leaving a balance on the injector. Can I then transfer said injector to another toon and remove SP's from him back to the 500k? Or when it changes from "Extractor" to "Injector" does that prevent this?
Memphis Baas
#1615 - 2016-01-28 18:22:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Memphis Baas
You buy an injector with 500k points in it.
You have 6m points, so you qualify for the 400k bracket.
You right-click the injector and click "Inject."
Injector goes to 0, or even gets destroyed / disappears.
Your character sheet goes "You now have 400k unallocated points" at the top, in green writing.
Then you can right-click on any skill you have and choose "Allocate some points to this skill."
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1616 - 2016-01-28 20:18:17 UTC
Here's another question, if I can buy skillpoints via the market, are you going to make a new subscription option that doesn't allow skill training but costs less?

Why expand in one direction but not the other? I should be able to play the game without having to train my character for a lower price.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us

Zozoll Neblyn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1617 - 2016-01-28 20:25:53 UTC
Amanda Orion wrote:
Memphis Baas wrote:
Quote:
Money grabbing is a cancer of the whole gaming branch.


Trying to make money is what drives the whole industry forward; you call it a cancer but it's not.

If you feel like spending 5+ years developing a product only to give it away for free, go ahead. We'll then come to your forums and shoot your in-game monuments complaining that you've done a ****** job, and that you should "fix it" for free, because the game is free.

Feel free to rage on, but the reality of the world out there is that things are done for money, and more money often (not always) results in more things done. You're wasting effort, but whatever, go ahead.


You have conflated "charging" which is fair and expected, with "money grabbing".

They are not giving it away, they are being paid for it already.



The concern isn't them choosing to make money. The worry is whether they're trying to make that money fast, or slow.

If they're trying to make it fast, then this whole game might get shut down in a year or two (taking with it whatever investments you - the player - paid.)

The question is: if I pay real money to buy an injector, am I paying to be 400k sp more powerful on a character that I'll be playing for the next decade? Or just the next few months?

Ten years of benefit is worth a lot more to me than 6 months of benefit. If CCP is giving up on the long term, then the real goal of all of this is to cheat me by getting me to pay a lot, intending all along to give me a very small return.
Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#1618 - 2016-01-28 20:26:17 UTC
If you really want a cash grab, do this... and then bring back skillpoint loss on pod death. Without bringing back clone insurance.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#1619 - 2016-01-28 20:28:28 UTC
Yet another stupid thing coming from Fozzie's team.

Characters will squeezed like oranges
Pay-to-win is the end of an MMO.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

N00B-SAIB0T
MK Financial
#1620 - 2016-01-28 20:39:02 UTC
I look forward to this. Now I don't have to get low-balled on that 40 million SP alt that I have on the Character Bazaar. I'll probably extract the alt down to 5 million and then biomass it. Roughly 28 million SPs to throw at my main will be nice.