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Dev blog: Skill trading in New Eden

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Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#101 - 2016-01-18 17:02:57 UTC
imgoingtodye wrote:
Is their going to be a limit on mount you can take from a player skills? Say I have a 55m toon how far can I suck him dye before I can longer able too?Twisted

If the previous blog's details are still relevant, you need a minimum of 5m SP before you can start sucking their brains.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
Alexxei
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#102 - 2016-01-18 17:04:01 UTC
Awesome feature, cant wait.
Querns
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#103 - 2016-01-18 17:04:12 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Well I can hope beyond reason CCP will see this and consider it, but my guess is going to be not likely.

One of the ways in which I think you should change this for the vets is you remove the restrictions on sp incoming if you've had sp outgoing.

For example. Lets say I'm 120mil sp. Over the years CCP has made a lot of changes to skills over time that are regarded not nearly as important as they once were and now I have *useless* (to me) sp. I'd love to be able to move that SP to other skills.

So lets say I do one extraction for 500k sp. I'm then allowed to buy an injector and use the full 500k. However, the next injector I bought would still be liable for the 150k amount.

If you want you could even subject this to certain limits, like I could only *move* 2mil sp a year like that etc.

Player is still paying market costs etc and CCP still gets its share. Otherwise will be a nice feature for noobs, something else I'm not ever going to use as a bitter vet with 3 chars above 120mil sp.

I don't think the idea here is to allow you to "reallocate" SP -- it's more intended for you to sell it to other players, or give it to your alts. Being able to "respec" with no penalty would be a bridge too far, in my opinion.

This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
EvilweaselFinance
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#104 - 2016-01-18 17:05:02 UTC
The skill amounts should still be adjusted to 512k instead of 500k so it matches up with actual skill amounts. Aside from that, looks cool.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#105 - 2016-01-18 17:05:06 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Note that I do not consider a new player paying however much for the PLEX to buy SP up to the entry point for a bigger alliance to be a benefit to them.

No I doubt it would be, but I'm biased as I didn't have to fulfill a SP requirement to join my small alliance, so perhaps someone in ncdot might be able to tell me more.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Hendrink Collie
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#106 - 2016-01-18 17:05:17 UTC
Querns wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:
Querns wrote:
ViolentDesire wrote:

Total joke and unforgivable. What is claimed is essentially impossible to conclude. The overwhelming majority other than maybe goons + pets and trolls saw this as a clearly destructive change and were against it. I don't think I've ever seen anything so untrue in relation to Eve. The amount of confirmation bias and dishonesty required to make this claim is astounding.

The only thing that's destructive about this change is the death of SP leaderboard onanism. Fortunately, such masturbatory pursuits, like real masturbation, are completely meaningless.


I guess you were in the minority that thought this was a good idea.

I do agree that it is a fantastic idea. I don't agree that my opinion represents the minority opinion.


For once, it seems reddit has the best opinion of skill tradiing. The overall opinion is pretty level-headed over there compared to here and twitter.
Varg Wardruna
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#107 - 2016-01-18 17:05:21 UTC
Well..looks like there is a Reason now to get a real Job againBig smile


Ps: GSF give us dang new Newbee Packages CoolEvil
Alexxei
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#108 - 2016-01-18 17:06:02 UTC
Ralph Drake wrote:
Please, CCP, let us be able to remove 0-skill-points skills from our sheet. I don't want the skill book back or anything, I am just obsessive.

Also this.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#109 - 2016-01-18 17:06:26 UTC
Shinzann wrote:
This idea rubbed me the wrong way the first time it was suggested. Even though we already have skill point trading in the form of the character bazaar, this idea still rubs me the wrong way.

It probably has some thing to do with cheapening the effort that I put into training skills over the years.

But since CCP has already decided to go ahead with this idea, it's apparent that alienating the older player base is less important than pandering to the impatient newbros.


In the end they will do neither. Veterans (and veteran organizations) will learn how to leverage this to better their experience, while new players will find it a turn off or even detrimental.

We've seen thinking like this from CCP before. The question becomes "how many times must a way of thinking fail before it's abandoned?".
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#110 - 2016-01-18 17:06:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
Hendrink Collie wrote:
For once, it seems reddit has the best opinion of skill tradiing. The overall opinion is pretty level-headed over there compared to here and twitter.

You heard it guys, get over to reddit and start posting like mad.

And downvote a lot.

Jenn aSide wrote:
In the end they will do neither. Veterans (and veteran organizations) will learn how to leverage this to better their experience, while new players will find it a turn off or even detrimental.

Sigh, I really wanted to leverage this to better a new player's experience but I guess the lever broke.

edit: not yet, but February is still a way away. Maybe if this crosses 400 posts it'll be abandoned though, I worry!

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Urziel99
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#111 - 2016-01-18 17:08:00 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
King Dave wrote:
As a very high sp character I think you are missing the mark horribly on people like me. I don't want to add more skills to my toon but rearrange the stuff I have. The cost benefit and lost potential usage of extracted skills for whatever reason in the future means I would never be extracting from myself. I would however pay a higher aurum price for a self extractor/injector. It's not tradable (call it genetically coded). You even give it a slight diminished return, but the point is that it resculpts the points of self. Otherwise if I want to get rid of 5 mil in leadership stuff to basically get 1.5 mil in something else plus the cost of a ton of aurum just doesn't make any sense, especially given than game is ever changing and you could tie some leadership skill to a ship, (command Desi anyone?)

Honestly a self-restricted "skill rearranger" (which you can buy and trade, but only when empty, and can only use on the character that extracts sp to it) would be nice.

You could make it so when you use the "skill rearranger" you fill up your 500k, but instead of giving you a filled extractor, it gives that character the (450k?) SP. No ability to transfer SP to another character.


This is what I am aiming for as well. The proposed system is too inefficient for personal use.
Estelie Heyan
Xri
#112 - 2016-01-18 17:08:03 UTC
Happy to see CCP moving forward with this idea.
ViolentDesire
78934223
#113 - 2016-01-18 17:10:10 UTC
Ria Nieyli wrote:
300,000 SP per injector in the 50m-80m bracket is a bit too steep. Bump it up to 400k at least. That's the bracket which is going to have your #1 skill packet consumer. Put a hard 0% utilisation at around 100m SP and it's all good.


The idea that a player is new at >50m is a very incorrect one. Apparently CCP believes that is the case, but that doesnt change much.

For this idea to not break the game it should have been capped at 10-15m. But of course then it would have been helping primarily new players (or alts, because we need more of those!), and that would be bad.
Janwaar
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#114 - 2016-01-18 17:10:47 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Querns wrote:
Aerious wrote:
What a waste of time and resources.

What use is this to a 2004 player with over 210m SP?

None.

Fortunately, there are only a handful of these sorts in the game.


And they are most likely heavily invested in continuing to play anyway so they won't care about this change. I doubt that many older players ( 2-3 years +) would quit over this since they are already invested in the game and play because they like it above other games. This mechanic will simply milk new players for more RL cash and benefit very space rich older players.

Note that I do not consider a new player paying however much for the PLEX to buy SP up to the entry point for a bigger alliance to be a benefit to them.



i dont agree,i dont play due to all the changes ccp made to the game and it is only that i had paid for this account for a year that i can post,learned a lesson there i guess,once the year is up biomass can take me....and my stuff,so dont ask ponces..
Calexis Atredies
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#115 - 2016-01-18 17:11:45 UTC
If your goal is to provide "options to help new players with progression" why is this change allowed to affect characters with more than say 50 mill SP?

Did your lead designer not pose the question of how much assistance new players needed to be competitive? Or did your Senior Producers simply rejoice at the idea of more people engaging with these micro-transactions on their older accounts?

The exclusivity of the early adoption SP pool for your title is gone, what separated a player of 4 or 10 years is now nothing other than their employment history and DOB.
Quadira
Zacharia Explorations Group
#116 - 2016-01-18 17:11:46 UTC
Still a bad idea CCP.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#117 - 2016-01-18 17:13:12 UTC
Ok, honestly as a "vet" (do I qualify? What's the SP minimum to qualify) it isn't that great even for me to make new alts as I am unlikely to (1) suddenly need a new general alt... or even a new specialized alt, and (2) it will presumably be "cheaper" to train the usual way, and I don't have that sudden need.

But I do think the genuinely new player (not just the alt of someone who probably also has 5 other alts and won't need all of them RIGHT NOW) is the one who benefits the most from just a single little boost of 500k SP.

They can't go and do something else... except train I guess. So it helps this particular edge a lot.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#118 - 2016-01-18 17:13:34 UTC
Janwaar wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Querns wrote:
Aerious wrote:
What a waste of time and resources.

What use is this to a 2004 player with over 210m SP?

None.

Fortunately, there are only a handful of these sorts in the game.


And they are most likely heavily invested in continuing to play anyway so they won't care about this change. I doubt that many older players ( 2-3 years +) would quit over this since they are already invested in the game and play because they like it above other games. This mechanic will simply milk new players for more RL cash and benefit very space rich older players.

Note that I do not consider a new player paying however much for the PLEX to buy SP up to the entry point for a bigger alliance to be a benefit to them.



i dont agree,i dont play due to all the changes ccp made to the game and it is only that i had paid for this account for a year that i can post,learned a lesson there i guess,once the year is up biomass can take me....and my stuff,so dont ask ponces..


They don't care so much about your stuff now that they can have your brainsssssss....
Valterra Craven
#119 - 2016-01-18 17:14:19 UTC
Querns wrote:
Valterra Craven wrote:
Well I can hope beyond reason CCP will see this and consider it, but my guess is going to be not likely.

One of the ways in which I think you should change this for the vets is you remove the restrictions on sp incoming if you've had sp outgoing.

For example. Lets say I'm 120mil sp. Over the years CCP has made a lot of changes to skills over time that are regarded not nearly as important as they once were and now I have *useless* (to me) sp. I'd love to be able to move that SP to other skills.

So lets say I do one extraction for 500k sp. I'm then allowed to buy an injector and use the full 500k. However, the next injector I bought would still be liable for the 150k amount.

If you want you could even subject this to certain limits, like I could only *move* 2mil sp a year like that etc.

Player is still paying market costs etc and CCP still gets its share. Otherwise will be a nice feature for noobs, something else I'm not ever going to use as a bitter vet with 3 chars above 120mil sp.

I don't think the idea here is to allow you to "reallocate" SP -- it's more intended for you to sell it to other players, or give it to your alts. Being able to "respec" with no penalty would be a bridge too far, in my opinion.



I understand, which is why my idea didn't come without limits to do it. That said the major flaw with this idea is that I don't think that there is enough incentive for people to extract SP in the first place.
ViolentDesire
78934223
#120 - 2016-01-18 17:15:21 UTC
Valterra Craven wrote:
Well I can hope beyond reason CCP will see this and consider it, but my guess is going to be not likely.

One of the ways in which I think you should change this for the vets is you remove the restrictions on sp incoming if you've had sp outgoing.

For example. Lets say I'm 120mil sp. Over the years CCP has made a lot of changes to skills over time that are regarded not nearly as important as they once were and now I have *useless* (to me) sp. I'd love to be able to move that SP to other skills.

So lets say I do one extraction for 500k sp. I'm then allowed to buy an injector and use the full 500k. However, the next injector I bought would still be liable for the 150k amount.

If you want you could even subject this to certain limits, like I could only *move* 2mil sp a year like that etc.

Player is still paying market costs etc and CCP still gets its share. Otherwise will be a nice feature for noobs, something else I'm not ever going to use as a bitter vet with 3 chars above 120mil sp.


Seems to be a one-man project unless you consider actual implementation dev time. This same dev posted zero(?) times in the actual discussion thread that he supposedly asked for.